token
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Post by token on Nov 4, 2016 22:09:07 GMT 10
Ok, the scenario is that a tyrannical government has just taken over and they dont give a stuff about anything cept owning us all. Cash is all gone and its all electronic. Its up to us to establish a new currency language to work together under the current climate whilst we also interact with our electronic antichrist gov system so as not to draw too much attention.
Preppers who step out of line buying normal stuff have suddenly been raided in the night and arrested by the gov goons so everyone is starting to realize that a pack of 20 .308 shells is all you should buy, along with some lamb chops a loaf of bred and a bag of spuds, otherwise youll draw attention with the electronic currency mode.
Businesses have also noticed such as well as many other citizens and will easily work with an under the counter deal, so the question is, can pm's do this and what would be their limitations if any?
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 4, 2016 22:52:30 GMT 10
You're plucking my strings, token.
A lot of talk goes into bartering with precious metals post SHTF and it has flaws, many around divisibility and lack of widespread adoption. When you start talking 1984, cash free, there's a need for an underground currency this is where I feel PMs will shine.
Gold and silver has always been money, people have just forgotten. For a currency to work it needs to be difficult to produce, recognisable and small enough to carry/conceal.
We need a society that is free from government, taking control of our currency would be a good start.
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Post by ziggysdad on Nov 5, 2016 0:11:46 GMT 10
I know it is only fiction, but in the 'Going Home' books they started operating on a barter system pretty quickly (goods for goods) and old US coins (90% silver).
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Post by Peter on Nov 5, 2016 1:07:12 GMT 10
I think that in an EROL scenario cash will still have its place. For sure, nothing official will be payable with legal tender, but there will still be plenty of folks willing to trade for cash (IMO). Also IMO, most folks will be more willing to deal in cash than in PMs, as not enough people know the value of them. But I must reiterate the value of water, food, etc over PMs & cash should TS really HTF.
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token
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Post by token on Nov 5, 2016 8:12:11 GMT 10
I tend to agree with para on the part that most people have forgotten, and or never been taught. I have been one of those that knew it was money, but didnt understand its place in how it could be translated from metal to legal currency and back again, or its value consistency above inflation. Those things ive only come to learn in the last few.
I dont doubt that if i wanted to buy a tractor for $10k that i might have to educate the farmer who sells it to me that i have 6 x 1oz gold coins in my pocket at .9999 for a 'trade' rather than a purchase.
My questions here are, in such a scenario, obviously there hasnt always been a currency system such as we have to 'value' gold and silver by weight, so if that was gone, how would we know the value of the pm?
In the same way, i dont doubt that a heap of us who have an idea of pm's if we lived close by, and had items for trade and barter between each other, could well be trading in pm's between each other, BUT, again, isnt that possible because we have a currency system that measures its current worth? What if there was none, how would it be valued?
I obviously need a history lesson as before such, pm's obviously had a known value. I just cant figure it atm.
And back onto the 'trade' scenario, rather than the farmer run the tractor through his books as a sale, would he give this to me in exchange for my gold coins? and would this then likely trigger this tyranical government scenario? I mean, one can still 'give' away freely or 'trade' something that is their belonging cant they?
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Nov 5, 2016 8:34:55 GMT 10
In such a scenario, I doubt I'd live long enough for currency to develop.
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token
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Post by token on Nov 5, 2016 8:54:26 GMT 10
In such a scenario, I doubt I'd live long enough for currency to develop. why? and what if you did? how would you perceive and interact with such?
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Nov 5, 2016 9:30:46 GMT 10
I can see myself doing something to destabilise a tyrannical oppressor, either resulting in little successes or instant death but eventually death.
If I did live long enough, I think that the value of PMs would be established by the first few trades and then later by external groups trying to collect and export the PMs.
I think trade for trade items are more likely to be successful for all parties initially until PMs are more widely recognised.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Nov 5, 2016 11:20:29 GMT 10
Bartering started immediately and the worst kinds of blackmarkets will deal with gold, and you could very well die doing so was the message I got from Selco about the Siege of Sarajevo. That was obviously a different climate, though potentially useful info from a real world situation.
Does that mean they might still be useful? Maybe if cautious, it might be the only thing you can use to trade with to get out of the tyrannical country.
In terms of standing up to it, I'll race you to it Austemp.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 5, 2016 20:47:46 GMT 10
Government backed currency is nothing but a story most people believe. When the narrator of that story declares it as worthless, it is. I have trouble believing that once the physical product is no longer backed by the government that people will continue to use it. Its no different than monopoly money at that point.
Talking specifically cashless EROL scenario, I don't see that this means food and water all of a sudden become an issue. You would expect that removing the paper currency you still have the opportunity to buy 'normal' things with electronic funds.
The real issue arises with suddenly illegal items or needing to grease some palms to get something done. You're not going to be able to pay your way around government regulation with a bucket of rice and some bottled water, those able to get anything done aren't going to be interested in the slightest.
You raise a good point about security Shiny but this is present in any black market scenario by default. You're trying to do untraceable things, with people willing to break the law, in places out of sight/mind... what could possibly go wrong?
So theres always this talk of the big SHTF event that collapses all systems at once for a long period of time. This idealized great equializer. I personally don't see it. I think there will always be people who avoid the big issues, those who are protected or have the wealth/connections to get out of dodge.
So from this perspective, there will always be haves and have nots. When gearing up for things to barter your biggest thing is, who are you bartering with? I feel that if there's something I REALLY need, its not going to be from the desperate starving guy down the road who would nearly kill for a bucket of rice. It'll be from a well connected, entrepreneurial type who knows the value of things and doesn't need my food preps.
So what are we all bartering for? Who are we bartering with? and will we really be able to get all we need with monopoly money or alcohol?
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