shinester
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Post by shinester on Nov 18, 2016 1:53:42 GMT 10
Great thread, shiny, you made a whole lotta sense for me and i have no idea but want to learn. Can someone please tell me why i might want to consider Ham radio as a prepper? as i have no clue as to what i might want to do until i learn what can be done. The other thing id like to know is, is Ham popular? I mean, is it likely that i could be in contact with heaps of people from around the world who are also preppers? Also, what are the regulations for and how might you get found out if you did do the wrong thing, and isnt that gubmint monitoring that you dont want? thanks for the lessons!
Biggest thing for me is range. We could setup a country wide coms network that could operate on 12v power completely separate from any grid, phone system, internet. No other tech can do this that I know of.
If you're decent at electronics you can send text over radio and set up similar to a chatroom over radio. You can send images also.
Most HAMs just seem to be older electronics geeks to me the exception to this are all the emergency radio operators. People who run setups to be able to go into disaster areas and re-establish communications.
When the grid goes down, even hospitals, police and fire use radio to communicate... If your unit works and the other persons unit works that's all you need, no towers/infrastructure to worry about.
Np token. I've got a bunch of CBs for shorter range communication. ------------ Paranoia [and others] I'm pretty good at electronics, having played with it since I was about 6, can read circuit diagrams, write my own etc. I do know little about HAM other than the broad strokes such as the carrier waves and modulation as you mentioned, though I can put the hours in, wouldn't take me long to get up to speed if required. The question here for me is, if we were looking at such a network, I'd be very interested in the specific items to buy, a kit if you like. Gasman was talking about something like that recently and we do have a few knowledgeable people here in this area, so could we work towards a recommended kit, preferably with varying budgets or what have you. Perhaps a portable kit that you sling an antenna up a tree? I also get that it might not be an easy answer. Thoughts?
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 18, 2016 6:34:24 GMT 10
If I want to be able to communicate with family who live 1-2 hours drive away, is that possible with something inexpensive? Can CB radio reach that far?
When I've googled ham radio all the bits and pieces look quite expensive. I would be very interested in seeing recommendations for a range of kits such as just suggested.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Nov 18, 2016 7:20:26 GMT 10
Tomatoes, nope CB won't do it. CB is only for short distances, if it's an open field, you might get 3kms, if there's trees or houses, less. A 'potential' option is satellite phone on both ends, assuming satellites are still up there. I'm not particularly familiar with this type of communication.
See below
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 18, 2016 7:23:30 GMT 10
If I want to be able to communicate with family who live 1-2 hours drive away, is that possible with something inexpensive? Can CB radio reach that far? When I've googled ham radio all the bits and pieces look quite expensive. I would be very interested in seeing recommendations for a range of kits such as just suggested. should be possible on CB with directional antennas. They focus the output in a narrow direction, exponentially increasing your output think laser vs light bulb. Would depend on the terrain though. handheld HAM units with scanner abilities are reasonably priced, can get decent chinese units for quite cheap, talk to Joey if you wanted to go that way. no getting around it, HF is expensive. Just the nature of the beast.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Nov 18, 2016 8:19:50 GMT 10
I do apologise in advance paranoia , and say that HF is not expensive compared to what most of us here on this forum spend on preps (e.g. even a half-decent firearm) HF has both the ability of world-wide voice and data comms AND using a Near Vertical Incidence Skywave antenna also gives you UHF/VHF-type comms without the restriction of terrain. The RXers of good quality Amateur Radio Equipment are second to none and will shame many scanners also. If anyone is serious about going down this path then please go back to my previous post regarding the WIA and the Foundation License. (And no, I am not a licensed Amateur Radio Operator (the term we use for HAMs here in Australia), however I do have some experience in the comms field. Regards. ps: plse don't ask for any long winded replies to my post as I have to type with one non-dominant hand atm and it's frustrating me to no end www.wia.org.au/discover/introduction/about/
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 18, 2016 8:31:07 GMT 10
I do apologise in advance paranoia , and say that HF is not expensive compared to what most of us here on this forum spend on preps (e.g. even a half-decent firearm) HF has both the ability of world-wide voice and data comms AND using a Near Vertical Incidence Skywave antenna also gives you UHF/VHF-type comms without the restriction of terrain. The RXers of good quality Amateur Radio Equipment are second to none and will shame many scanners also. If anyone is serious about going down this path then please go back to my previous post regarding the WIA and the Foundation License. (And no, I am not a licensed Amateur Radio Operator (the term we use for HAMs here in Australia), however I do have some experience in the comms field. Regards. ps: plse don't ask for any long winded replies to my post as I have to type with one non-dominant hand atm and it's frustrating me to no end very very good point as to compare it to other preps. I've just spent $800 on a base station radio and theres more to spend before its operable as a unit. I did not see this as expensive for the capability I am achieving. Many under-value coms though and it will always seem expensive over CB. Yes, the WIA foundation manual is key, 'Your entry into amateur radio' has everything in it to get you over the line understanding all this stuff.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 18, 2016 8:43:11 GMT 10
Biggest thing for me is range. We could setup a country wide coms network that could operate on 12v power completely separate from any grid, phone system, internet. No other tech can do this that I know of.
If you're decent at electronics you can send text over radio and set up similar to a chatroom over radio. You can send images also.
Most HAMs just seem to be older electronics geeks to me the exception to this are all the emergency radio operators. People who run setups to be able to go into disaster areas and re-establish communications.
When the grid goes down, even hospitals, police and fire use radio to communicate... If your unit works and the other persons unit works that's all you need, no towers/infrastructure to worry about.
Np token. I've got a bunch of CBs for shorter range communication. ------------ Paranoia [and others] I'm pretty good at electronics, having played with it since I was about 6, can read circuit diagrams, write my own etc. I do know little about HAM other than the broad strokes such as the carrier waves and modulation as you mentioned, though I can put the hours in, wouldn't take me long to get up to speed if required. The question here for me is, if we were looking at such a network, I'd be very interested in the specific items to buy, a kit if you like. Gasman was talking about something like that recently and we do have a few knowledgeable people here in this area, so could we work towards a recommended kit, preferably with varying budgets or what have you. Perhaps a portable kit that you sling an antenna up a tree? I also get that it might not be an easy answer. Thoughts? I'm interested in anything that will bring more preppers onto HF. Happy to colaborate on this with you. If its simply a voice network standard components would make it easy, if we got enough people interested you could even do a group buy through Joey and help bring down the costs. as for a data or text network (this is less immediate of a concern for me but is still on the list) I have seen arduino interfaces built. We could establish a working code set, come up with a standard list of components and recomend a specific prebuilt micro board. I'm also very interested in rasberry pi modules as I would prefer stand alone unit over a computer interface. so yes, very interested. Think of it like SHTF proofing the forum, giving ausprep some redundency
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Nov 18, 2016 9:02:15 GMT 10
Keep talking! I'm mostly following. Lots of hand holding would be nice here. - if you had to put together a system for everyone to properly integrates and at a price that does the job and keeps as many people as possible in the game of voice with the future scaling of data transmission, what do we need exactly? If we start coming together with a kit, the people who know their stuff can work it out and then us plebs can save a great deal of time sorting learning what's what, get our license and just use it Everyone can turn on a light-bulb and most can't explain how it works philosophy. For me it's at least the starting point. Thoughts?
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Nov 18, 2016 9:09:44 GMT 10
[/p]
When the grid goes down, even hospitals, police and fire use radio to communicate... If your unit works and the other persons unit works that's all you need, no towers/infrastructure to worry about.
[/quote] Not those using 'digital radio', like some vic police and most vic firefighters. If the local testra down goes down, so do our radios. For about 200km in every direction
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Nov 18, 2016 9:13:01 GMT 10
My choice would be a Yaesu FT-450D and FC-40 Antenna Coupler; but that's just me…..
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 18, 2016 9:15:23 GMT 10
[/p]
When the grid goes down, even hospitals, police and fire use radio to communicate... If your unit works and the other persons unit works that's all you need, no towers/infrastructure to worry about.
[/quote] Not those using 'digital radio', like some vic police and most vic firefighters. If the local testra down goes down, so do our radios. For about 200km in every direction[/quote] My understanding was, and I could be way off here, was that most emergency services still had backup analogue systems in an effort to communicate in large disasters. This is less for talking to individual members and units bit for co-ordination between stations and getting info out of the area.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 18, 2016 9:19:36 GMT 10
Keep talking! I'm mostly following. Lots of hand holding would be nice here. - if you had to put together a system for everyone to properly integrates and at a price that does the job and keeps as many people as possible in the game of voice with the future scaling of data transmission, what do we need exactly? If we start coming together with a kit, the people who know their stuff can work it out and then us plebs can save a great deal of time sorting learning what's what, get our license and just use it Everyone can turn on a light-bulb and most can't explain how it works philosophy. For me it's at least the starting point. Thoughts? Actually not as complicated as it would seem on the outset. You basically need a transciever, somthing to power it (12v battery or power supply), an antenna tuner and an antenna...
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 18, 2016 9:31:19 GMT 10
My choice would be a Yaesu FT-450D and FC-40 Antenna Coupler; but that's just me….. Would be a fantastic portable rig. I've only bought yaesu gear so far. have a VX-6R handheld and a FT-990 base station. Still trying to decide on an antenna for the base station so many options!
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Nov 18, 2016 9:31:21 GMT 10
My understanding was, and I could be way off here, was that most emergency services still had backup analogue systems in an effort to communicate in large disasters. This is less for talking to individual members and units bit for co-ordination between stations and getting info out of the area. I've properly stuffed the quoting, tried on my phone with the first one and it's all buggered haha... whoops Okay on the computer now. I can only use my firestation as an example, one of the blokes is a radio guru so he's shared a bit of info. We use digital radios to communicate between all firefighters on duty, the trucks and 'vicfire' which is the fire section of 000. We use an internet based system and a pager system to simultaneously send out jobs when there is an emergency or to recall staff or call volunteers as needed. If the telstra tower goes down (damaged, loses power, terrorism): all three of those stop working. Our only back up is a comms vehicle which has a sat phone as part of it's array. I'm not sure who else has a sat phone they could call if it was a statewide thing, but if it was localised they could call headquarters or vicfire and co-ord from there I guess.
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Nov 18, 2016 10:11:47 GMT 10
We use uhfs round the farm, hunting etc The 5 watt handhelds have good range line of sight and the vehicle ones have better reception due to larger aerial The hf system sounds great post collapse- no reliance on towers internet etc On the list - thanks for info everyone
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Post by Joey on Nov 18, 2016 11:34:36 GMT 10
That FT-450D looks alright, and 12v as well. I've sent away a request for prices on those from my supplier if anybody interested in this multiband transceiver, as the previous ones I started the thread on are only HF band 0-30Mhz, where as these ones cover all the VHF bands as well.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Nov 18, 2016 16:07:03 GMT 10
I could well be interested Joey.
So suggesting units is helpful for me, helps me put some numbers on it in my head ============== $1100 YAESU FT-450D $470 FC-40 Antenna Coupler
Power RX 1.5A @ 13.8V = 20.7W @ 90% of day = 447Wh/day [receive 90% of the time] TX 22A @ 13.8V = 304W @ 10% of day = 729Wh/day [transmit 10% of the time] - max power [100W transmit]
Antenna coupler - 5-60W = Maximum of 1440Wh/day [I suspect less though
Total energy/day 2600Wh. - most likely less though and it would depend on much, working with the real brains in this area [not me] to get a real grasp of energy required.
Would need solar panels of about 1500W ~ $1000 second hand. More than enough power for it in winter as well as being able to run some lights. A AGM 12V battery bank of at least 250Ah. ~ new $500 ----------------
It's looking less portable with the power requirements.
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australia
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Post by australia on Nov 18, 2016 21:40:05 GMT 10
With ham, your obviously being listened to by anyone with a scanner though correct? If you use say icom 'dstar' or 'yeasu fusion digital on UHF/VHF ham freqs your not going to get many listen in with a scanner as the cheapest digital Scanner capable of listening to dstar and fusion is pretty new and costs over $1500 , And there is digital P25 , that someone has to have a digital scanner to listen but these are a cheaper scanner at approx $300 , Normal analog you will get people listening in pretty easy .
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australia
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Post by australia on Nov 18, 2016 21:48:25 GMT 10
[/p]
When the grid goes down, even hospitals, police and fire use radio to communicate... If your unit works and the other persons unit works that's all you need, no towers/infrastructure to worry about.
[/quote] Not those using 'digital radio', like some vic police and most vic firefighters. If the local testra down goes down, so do our radios. For about 200km in every direction[/quote] They use portable repeater trailers called 'cows' these days if needed when comm sites go down . Some operational large trucks have this setup also .
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Nov 18, 2016 22:03:26 GMT 10
I could well be interested Joey. So suggesting units is helpful for me, helps me put some numbers on it in my head ============== $1100 YAESU FT-450D $470 FC-40 Antenna Coupler PowerRX 1.5A @ 13.8V = 20.7W @ 90% of day = 447Wh/day [receive 90% of the time] TX 22A @ 13.8V = 304W @ 10% of day = 729Wh/day [transmit 10% of the time] Antenna coupler - 5-60W = Maximum of 1440Wh/day [I suspect less though Total energy/day 2600Wh. Would need solar panels of about 1500W ~ $1000 second hand. More than enough power for it in winter as well as being able to run some lights. A AGM 12V battery bank of at least 250Ah. ~ new $500 ---------------- It's looking less portable with the power requirements. So... Couple issues with the numbers there. On a foundation licence your maximum output power is 10watts, this is peak and silence between your words takes no power to transmit, medium volume is half power, ect. I'd double that number to take efficiencies of the radio into play but this is still minimal compared to the 100w listed. If power is an issue I would be running a manual antenna tuner over an auto one which does not need extra power (there are slight efficiency losses but these are minimal) Cant fault your RX numbers except to say I'd think you would set aside a few hours in the evening for coms rather than having your station on all the time.
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