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Post by spinifex on Nov 20, 2018 17:15:51 GMT 10
I've been contemplating the communications section in the forum. There's lots of content regarding how wonderful radios of all kinds are for SHTF comms.
I reckon they're worth having and do own some different types ... but I also think about their downside.
1. A friendly group (or groups) can keep each other informed. But anyone else, including rivals, can listen in too. . 2. Radio comms can be jammed. By militaries and rival amateurs. 3. Radio transmissions can be tracked back to their source making rural retreats electronically visible. 3. I'm not sure if they survive emp or severe solar storms.
How likely are these hazards? What are the consequences when they arise? What are the contingencies?
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Post by milspec on Nov 20, 2018 18:07:58 GMT 10
To mitigate the issues with unwanted parties listening in you can use low grade codes to disguise the important details of your comms. You can use authentication procedures to reduce the risk of unknown parties pretending to be someone they are not. You can program some radios to use encryption, (my motorola VHF/UHF radios are programmable in this way - this can be done now if you want to fork out about $800-900 to setup and license a single digital UHF channel outside the CB bands. State players will always have DF & crossfix capabilities to locate RF emitters, I see less likelihood of there being a co-ordinated bunch of amateurs who will have a mobile/rapid response DF/Fix capability.
That said I do envision getting a scanner when other priority projects are completed. It wont fix (and may not decode) but it will at least give an indication of radio activity.
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Post by Joey on Nov 20, 2018 19:03:12 GMT 10
A predetermined radio code plan could be setup, using code words for various things like food, water, fuel etc so that way when talking about sensitive stuff like that it will all sounds like random words if anyone was listening in.
For radio Tx-ing if it really came to it and the authorities were tracking radio signals (say they banned the use of radios in a SHTF) you would travel away from your base when you were to broadcast. Listening would be fine just broadcasting would be the issue. If it was really bad you would move to a different location each time to broadcast but not in a circle with your camp in the middle lol
The survivability of the radios would depend if they were stored away in your faraday box and disconnected from power/antenna at the time.
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Post by spinifex on Nov 20, 2018 19:58:46 GMT 10
To mitigate the issues with unwanted parties listening in you can use low grade codes to disguise the important details of your comms. You can use authentication procedures to reduce the risk of unknown parties pretending to be someone they are not. You can program some radios to use encryption, (my motorola VHF/UHF radios are programmable in this way - this can be done now if you want to fork out about $800-900 to setup and license a single digital UHF channel outside the CB bands. State players will always have DF & crossfix capabilities to locate RF emitters, I see less likelihood of there being a co-ordinated bunch of amateurs who will have a mobile/rapid response DF/Fix capability. That said I do envision getting a scanner when other priority projects are completed. It wont fix (and may not decode) but it will at least give an indication of radio activity. Encryption is an interesting idea. Very useful in some cases. I suppose a downside to that is anyone picking up the existence of encrypted signals might become even more interested in locating the source.
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Post by milspec on Nov 20, 2018 20:47:50 GMT 10
Encryption is an interesting idea. Very useful in some cases. I suppose a downside to that is anyone picking up the existence of encrypted signals might become even more interested in locating the source. I wouldn't over think it. There are lots of encrypted comms out there already.
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Post by jonasparker on Nov 21, 2018 6:38:39 GMT 10
True, amateur radio rules forbid transmitting in cipher, but the newer digital modes can be hard to find because of their extremely narrow bandwidth.
A signal transmitted in Morse code is extremely difficult to jam, given the number of bands and frequencies available.
Possibly, but only if you're transmitting. If you're transmitting in short words, you'll be hard to find. Just listening, you'll be impossible to find.
Keep your rig, or a stand-by rig in a Faraday Cage. Problem solved!
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Post by spinifex on Nov 21, 2018 7:26:46 GMT 10
Years ago I had a researcher mate who was well into radio tracking and other tech. We used to use equipment like this to track animals that we put transmitters on. Didn't realise it is directly applicable to hunting comms radios. Thought it might be more complicated kit.
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Post by spinifex on Nov 21, 2018 7:36:18 GMT 10
Encryption is an interesting idea. Very useful in some cases. I suppose a downside to that is anyone picking up the existence of encrypted signals might become even more interested in locating the source. I wouldn't over think it. There are lots of encrypted comms out there already. Don't think there's such a thing as overthinking. There may be lots of encrypted transmission out there now ... but will there be later? Does using it already make you a suspicious character worthy of closer investigation? And who is using them now? Might it be wise to have the ability to employ simpler, alternate arrangements to radio based comms?
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Post by milspec on Nov 21, 2018 9:51:23 GMT 10
I wouldn't over think it. There are lots of encrypted comms out there already. Don't think there's such a thing as overthinking. There may be lots of encrypted transmission out there now ... but will there be later? Does using it already make you a suspicious character worthy of closer investigation? And who is using them now? Might it be wise to have the ability to employ simpler, alternate arrangements to radio based comms?
Sorry if I came across as flippant or disrespectful that wasn't intended. (I'm a bit of an over thinker myself).
Lots of official services use encryption so I expect that there will still be a good amount of encrypted comms in all but the worst scenarios.
Whilst some criminal organisatopns will probably be using encrypted comms there are also legitimate reasons for wanting encryption (For example in my race car I don't want my competitors listening in to my status updates/pit intentions when I am talking to my crew).
Contingency methods of communications would be a good idea. I might have to start training ravens to carry messages to and from the wall
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Post by spinifex on Nov 21, 2018 17:02:41 GMT 10
Smoke and courier birds hey ... hmmm ... just out of curiosity what year were you folks born? 1812? or after 1990?
Can anyone here remember that long stringy stuff made of metal? Formerly used to connect telephones?
I reckon these days a chap could string up a comms wire in plain sight and have a boffin with a scanner or radio signal finding tech walk straight past it.
Not suitable for 'on the fly' mobile comms but a handy alternative to radio kit for detailed real time information transmission between predetermined locations.
There's some good light based methods out there too - both high and low tech.
Being a silly old bugger I really like the low tech options as a adjunct to radio usage.
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 21, 2018 19:46:58 GMT 10
Might it be wise to have the ability to employ simpler, alternate arrangements to radio based comms? Can you expand on your ideas for this please?
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Post by spinifex on Nov 21, 2018 20:15:30 GMT 10
Might it be wise to have the ability to employ simpler, alternate arrangements to radio based comms? Can you expand on your ideas for this please? battery powered, wire based communication equipment. As in ye-olde telephone tech is high on my list. It shows up at farm clearing sales at times but become harder to come across since early 2000's. I've seen some amazing light signalling equipment powered by kerosene - good enough for sending simple signals or even morse (if you know it) over a couple of kilometres by line of sight and it can be shielded to be quite direction specific (harder for others to see if they are out of the line of sight) - hard to believe until you see it in action. The earliest long distance comms was in fact the marine lighthouse ... it sent a simple message - Danger here! That concept can be miniaturized and concealed with batteries, wires and multi coloured globes to send basic information from one fixed location to another. Make your own codes to suit your needs. These techniques are very good for very specific purposes between predetermined locations. Semaphore?
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Post by graynomad on Nov 22, 2018 21:55:53 GMT 10
The earliest long distance comms was in fact the marine lighthouse ... Lighthouses project a beam of light using a Fresnel lens, I use a Fresnel lens to project my camera flash further, so maybe it's possible to get one that will focus say a torch beam so it's more directional...OTOH maybe just use a laser.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Nov 23, 2018 13:59:04 GMT 10
.... IR
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Post by spinifex on Nov 23, 2018 17:13:27 GMT 10
The earliest long distance comms was in fact the marine lighthouse ... Lighthouses project a beam of light using a Fresnel lens, I use a Fresnel lens to project my camera flash further, so maybe it's possible to get one that will focus say a torch beam so it's more directional...OTOH maybe just use a laser. Yep. Lasers work well. They're so directional that aiming them correctly at the 'receiver' over long distances requires some precision. Aiming gets a bit easier if you project onto the side of a building at long range.
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Post by spinifex on Nov 23, 2018 17:18:46 GMT 10
Fresnel lenses also make interesting heat rays!
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Post by graynomad on Nov 23, 2018 21:04:52 GMT 10
Fresnel lenses also make interesting heat rays! I pulled one from a TV a few months ago. The plan is to make a solar oven with it.
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Post by Peter on Nov 23, 2018 21:37:12 GMT 10
A few days ago I pilfered two handheld CB radios from work. They aren't in good condition, so their use is limited. They will be most useful for use by the bbq area... calling to Mrs Pete that my beer is finished and I need another.
I'm actually not joking...
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Nov 24, 2018 12:19:23 GMT 10
The earliest long distance comms was in fact the marine lighthouse ... Lighthouses project a beam of light using a Fresnel lens, I use a Fresnel lens to project my camera flash further, so maybe it's possible to get one that will focus say a torch beam so it's more directional...OTOH maybe just use a laser. Or a cree chipped torch...laser works too
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