gasman
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Post by gasman on Apr 3, 2016 11:19:06 GMT 10
Agree with u mate Need to practise patrolling contact drills bounding overwatch etc Just don't get caught!!
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Post by Joey on Apr 3, 2016 12:06:04 GMT 10
Just do your patrols etc without firearms, or carry hiking sticks to simulate. For those with large properties, a motorbike or quad patrol regularly can be very beneficial, not only for learning the lay of the land and possible weak points and choke points that could be easily defended, but also checking for poachers etc damaging fences etc.
I have often though about utilising the actual fence as an alarm of sorts., like have 1 wire of the fence as a normally open circuit alarm, so when it's cut at whatever point, it trips an alarm at the house. I know it would be a decent job to setup logistically, especially if you have multiple fence lines, and then gridding it up in sections so you can know what direction anyone is coming from. But this could be done with a remote solar powered transmitter for each section back to the house.
But very valid points on practicing patrol/fire and section movements in your groups of trusted prepper buddies/family.
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Apr 3, 2016 12:13:18 GMT 10
Hunting with a few mates requires good communication, clear predetermined hand signals a small handful of versatile formations that all are familiar with. These should all be practised regularly, for safety.
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Post by graynomad on Apr 3, 2016 12:16:16 GMT 10
Good scenario and in my (non-existent) experience about how this sort of thing could play out.
I have people on two sides that I think could be quite handy and we do discuss this fairly often, but no training has been done. This is partly because we really don't think the zombies will get out here, this may be a misguided assumption. I would certainly plan to patrol several k out from our collective properties and there are at least 2 neighbours that would warrant an eye being kept on.
I like the idea of a drone but it could be a two-edged sword if they hear it and you don't see them. I've used a friend's with FPV (First Person View) goggles and that's a very powerful tool, maybe if you stay high enough the bad guys wouldn't hear it and therefore would be unlikely to see it as they wouldn't expect to have to look up very much if at all. People tend not to even look up into the tree canopy.
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Post by thereth on Apr 3, 2016 12:34:58 GMT 10
Just do your patrols etc without firearms, or carry hiking sticks to simulate. For those with large properties, a motorbike or quad patrol regularly can be very beneficial, not only for learning the lay of the land and possible weak points and choke points that could be easily defended, but also checking for poachers etc damaging fences etc. I have often though about utilising the actual fence as an alarm of sorts., like have 1 wire of the fence as a normally open circuit alarm, so when it's cut at whatever point, it trips an alarm at the house. I know it would be a decent job to setup logistically, especially if you have multiple fence lines, and then gridding it up in sections so you can know what direction anyone is coming from. But this could be done with a remote solar powered transmitter for each section back to the house. But very valid points on practicing patrol/fire and section movements in your groups of trusted prepper buddies/family. The only issue I see with quad bikes is the noise, it would attract attention like nothing else, I have thought about this as well and have considered golf carts, they are battery powered so silent, yes they are slower and have a limied range but this is just for short range patrols. Also they dont use precious fuel and can be used as long as you have solar or wind power. The only issue I see with them is that they are not suitable for off road so would be restricted to road/gravel roads or fire breaks.
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Post by Joey on Apr 3, 2016 12:58:41 GMT 10
The bike patrols would be just for the current times, but post SHTF but could be utilised as a QRF for very large properties post SHTF
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Apr 3, 2016 13:13:41 GMT 10
Early warning of incoming people thru patrolling , neighbours ,alarms dogs etc Correct identification then dealing with the threat via sniper fire( especially to buy time) or coordinated ambush and overwhelming force so no one gets away to give the position away Backed up with a fortified defensive position with good avenues of fire Force multipliers like thermal and night vision vital That's the plan anyway Sounds good but long way off
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Apr 3, 2016 13:13:58 GMT 10
Early warning of incoming people thru patrolling , neighbours ,alarms dogs etc Correct identification then dealing with the threat via sniper fire( especially to buy time) or coordinated ambush and overwhelming force so no one gets away to give the position away Backed up with a fortified defensive position with good avenues of fire Force multipliers like thermal and night vision vital That's the plan anyway Sounds good but long way off
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Apr 3, 2016 13:14:42 GMT 10
Oops hit post button twice What hope have I got
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Apr 4, 2016 7:50:21 GMT 10
Firstly I have no military training in this area, so at best my position is based on lots of academic knowledge and curiosity, better than nothing, not as good as real training. Playing some paintball or skirmish with good players 'is' better than nothing and I recommend it. It gives you ideas on use of numbers and it's effect, flanking, suppression, maneuver, how much fitter you should be, particularly if backed up with academic knowledge. Again, I'm sure that pails in comparison to what your basic infantryman understands. What is highlighted from such activities is the effect of teamwork and communication, be it radio or hand signals. The last game I played we stomped an assault on our base of equal numbers 'because' we had good comms and recon [playing with good players] and outmaneuvered them. Thoughts - They have the early warning system, cool. It's an area I've put much contemplation on. Whilst I have some ideas [as gasman says, "it's on the list"] for integrating our local CB with sensors and solar power back up in a similar way as described, so far the plan is in utilizing those door alarms with a bit of fishing wire that works as a trip wire. They only use power when the magnet is removed, aka the door is opened so they can sit in place for extended times without too much issue. The downside is they advertise themselves. Good for more bushy areas that can't be observed and obviously good inside buildings for a few moments notice. They go for about $1.30 on ebay. Some other ideas I'm trying on for size is using a camera network that have motion sensors so they alert you to movement and you can see what is moving. As illustrated below the big issue is coverage. Where are they're OPLPs where is their permiter defense? Ideally they would have 3 corners around their retreat that are manned all of the time and form the corners of a delta [triangle]. In between would be fighting pits every 50m or so where if an alert came people would get to to provide covered and interlacing fields of fire. From there [if you had the manpower] having OPLPs further out to observe and communicate from a distance. The delta perimeter needs at least 9 people per day, any OPLP also needs 3. Having patrols is valid, though if you've got no perimeter you're giving away the greatest advantage you might have to any attack, that is a well planned defense which according to military thinking gives a force multiplier of 3 to 1. If you know it's coming... maybe. How come you don't have defensive positions further forward in those areas, that farmhouse who had the radio? I get that it takes time to do this, though they were complacent and fighting among themselves, so probably had time. Having some positions ready to support the farmhouse, perhaps over looking it from a hill would make a lot of sense and they they could very well be the forward fighting positions 'after' the perimeter is formed and maintained. Could the plan not have been that the guy in the farmhouse falls back to your retreat that's well defended and now alert to attackers? Does the guy with the radio have LOTS of batteries or a means of charging or does he only turn it on when he need it, mitigating the usefulness of having 2 way communication. The early warning an integration of the layers of defense a little further out. How far out could it be with a break beam detector? Well it could be on a road or obvious approach routes at a distance [which would make lots of sense] but you can't really cover a large area with them unless you have a great deal of them. Think about it, if a break beam detector has a range of 50m even at 50m from the house you would need 8 of them to cover all directions. Start multiplying that the further you get out. Going back a few steps, lets say that there's a push towards them giving up the advantage of your force multiplier of 3 to 1. I suppose in effect they did a hasty ambush, to which is also a force multiplier, but a bit more observation for intel, positioning and thinking might have reduced casualties rather than rushing into it, they don't know you're there initially, why not observe and plan so that you're not exposed? Why not withdraw if you don't have much greater numbers or advantage. I know they're a threat, it doesn't mean it's worth throwing yourself at the threat. Attacking without significant advantage is not a good tactic, you'll loose much of your most precious resource that can't be replaced, aka manpower. Obviously this is an exploration of ideas, it makes sense that they want to do something about the obvious threat in the area, perhaps doing that at the best advantage you can muster would be prudent. I would think that a gorilla/sniper approach would be better in this situation. Hit and run tactics. Whittle them down and make them think twice about coming into an area that they get fleas bites from.
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Morgo
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Post by Morgo on Apr 4, 2016 21:31:38 GMT 10
IMO I think the outcome could be a little unrealistic. Training is a very good idea but it generally doesn't beat experience.
From what we know that's all the "good" members of the story had, training. They hadn't been up against anyone before.
What we know about the attackers is that they have real experience from being in previous battles which they won on atleast one occasion and likely more. The attackers had real experience.
In a real world scenario I wouldn't be running off into the bush to look for/engage attackers of an unknown number/capability. That just seems like a good way to level the playing field, in their favor.
If I had an early alarm perimeter and a drone then I'd prefer to let them come to me and deal with them when/where I want, likely from previously designated strategic positions or fortifications dependent on the enemies approaching direction which offer cover and a good distance to engage and if necessary fall back.
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tails
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Post by tails on Apr 7, 2016 16:23:36 GMT 10
This is an excellent scenario,
it identifies so many areas and considerations that we need to be aware of and the reasons behind it.
Would you fellas mind if I pinched it...
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Apr 8, 2016 9:08:05 GMT 10
This is an excellent scenario, it identifies so many areas and considerations that we need to be aware of and the reasons behind it. Would you fellas mind if I pinched it... Some of us aren't against New Zealanders [aka go nuts]
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