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Post by Joey on Jul 22, 2016 20:20:47 GMT 10
Speaking of stocking up water, today at coles I grabbed another 4 10Lbottles that the missus likes to leave on the bench as "she doesn't like drinking cold water" she asked me " why you get so many bottles?" I just said mumble mumble and shrugged my shoulders lol
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Jul 22, 2016 20:27:03 GMT 10
Yeah it sure does help, the water usage is not nearly as much as I had expected considering how much food you're growing. 5500L yearly seems like hardly anything. Doing the sums quickly there it's only 15L/day on average with times when lots is needed and times when it's not needed at all. Filling 2 sinks a couple of times doing dishes would be about that amount, lol. With a gravity fed reserve tank if all else failed it could be filled up daily with a couple of buckets and keep you in water without issue.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Jul 22, 2016 20:49:14 GMT 10
Good point about the gravity feed. The two main tanks have a single pressure pump but they will also gravity feed quite well to the house as they are sited on higher ground. The 5000L job is only a gravity feed. It feels wrong but at the moment both main tanks are being by-passed with all roof water going into the neighbour's paddock. The 5000L tank overflow is also being diverted away from the property (it's overflow tank is also full and needs to be dumped). We also collect the roof water from the hothouse and for this we have two 220L barrels (full), and are emptied every few days by tipping them over or filling up water troughs. Seems such a waste doesn't it, but then again that's why we moved here; our number one priority was water for growing food.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Jul 24, 2016 14:56:17 GMT 10
We have about 30 to 50 litres of packaged water in the house on average, but this gets rotated and used/added as required by season. We also have >80000 litres in rainwater tanks and also an averaged sized dam. Dam water is fine to drink thru are water filter such as a life straw but is generally used watering the garden and firefighting. We had a very, very dry summer with well below average rainfall from August last year through to May this year and our tanks got to just below half way, but are now overflowing.
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Jul 24, 2016 23:08:30 GMT 10
On most of the prepper type web sites I have come across a number of different people give their daily consumption rate of water that are totally unrealistic to what we use. Most of those consumption rates would, to me, apply if I was camping but in real life we have to take into account personal hydration, personal hygiene, food preparation, laundering of clothing and the greatest amount of our water usage goes towards the production of food.
In the middle of summer when there have been no rains for several weeks and our vegetable gardens and orchard areas are in full production we can use 20,000 to 25,000 litres of water per week. In years of what we call good rainfall this amount of water usage can be sustained, usually for as long as it is required from the dams we have. It takes about three litres of petrol to pump 22,500 litres of water from the dams to a tank on the highest point of the property from where it can be gravity fed to where it is to be used.
Petrol powered pumps have the advantage of being able to pump large quantities of water for what we consider a quite small cost and these amounts of water would not be viable to be pumped by electric pumps running off our solar power system. To transfer water it is critical to have your pipes sized to the pump. It is next to useless having a pump with a 40 millimetre delivery pushing water down a 25 millimetre pipeline.
Water and firewood we have to source and supply from our own land and in the good years with plenty of good rainfall we are able to supply a good percentage of what food we use and have enough left for preserving for the poorer years with below average rainfall. Because of this we treat what we have as assets and respect them greatly and until most people have to do this for themselves I do not believe they will understand what a post SHTF lifestyle would be like.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Jul 25, 2016 16:50:51 GMT 10
Thanks for another perspective peter. Your figures are much more inline with what I had imagined would be typical, veg undoubtably gets a lot of rain where he is. I do get that normal usage of water is higher, you can easily check that if you're on town water with the water bill. In terms of water and emergency survival, So how much fluid does the average, healthy adult living in a temperate climate need? The Institute of Medicine determined that an adequate intake (AI) for men is roughly about 13 cups (3 liters) of total beverages a day. The AI for women is about 9 cups (2.2 liters) of total beverages a day. - source So if we brought it down to 'only' water being consumed and no food, then those figures would be applicable. I think the figure of 4L is accurate, though you're not going to have much in the way of luxury and probably not enough to wash your plates, clothing etc as you're mentioning. Looking at the base line, obviously the more we have the better! |
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Post by graynomad on Jul 25, 2016 20:51:27 GMT 10
...20,000 to 25,000 litres of water per week... Holy water consumption Batman! Still you're growing food, that makes a huge difference, if not then I stand by my 5lpppd, did it for years so know it's practical...caveat, no kids or pets, and not working so no need to look "presentable" every day. |
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Jul 26, 2016 12:22:51 GMT 10
Well said Peter and in total agreement. Veg. |
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Post by PlanZ on Jul 26, 2016 20:07:29 GMT 10
Here's the thing. It seems to me that different SHTF scenarios would call for different amounts of water use.
I imagine that it's more likely we'll have lesser (and shorter duration) problems than total and permanent loss of utilities. My initial preps are for more likely, but less catastrophic situations where a couple of months of self sufficiency would be adequate.
Under this sort of scenario I'd prefer to be living a higher standard of living than a survival ration of a few litres of water per day with nothing for washing self or clothes.
Ultimately I'd love to be prepared for perpetual self sufficiency, but if a scenario were to arise tomorrow that would require this then we don't yet have the food resources to deal with it so why bother having a years supply of water.
Once we achieve the necessary resources to survive a couple of months then I can work on longer term survival plans. But I would imagine that this would have to require growing some food - so this scenario would also require more than a few litres of water per day.
So my reasoning is that 5L/day (or less) would be miserable in the short term and inadequate for long term self sufficiency. That said I'd be flexible and try to use well below my maximum budgeted 20l daily allowance if the SHTF scenario looks long term.
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Jul 26, 2016 21:55:06 GMT 10
We are fortunate to live a lifestyle that enables us in the years of good rainfall to be able to produce up to 85 percent of our nutritional needs with the added benefit of being able to produce a range of jams, fruit juices and preserves for other members of our family. We are also in those good years able to preserve a quantity of dried legumes such as beans and peas for several years of use as well as grow the likes of pumpkins and potatoes that will keep until the following harvest.
For this water, and plenty of it is essential. Water, and plenty of it means you have the ability to produce food and it is because of this relationship when I usually talk about food I also include water as in my opinion you cannot have one without the other.
Anton mentioned the term ‘self sufficiency’.
Self sufficiency cannot be achieved by individual families or small groups. Larger groups/communities where there are enough people with the necessary skills to make all the required items that the people in that community require without having to rely on the industrialised system that we currently have.
Butcher, Baker, Fletcher, Cook, Farmer etc. are some of the surnames we still have today and they reflect what their ancestors did in the days of yore. Today many of the skills reflected by those names have been lost by individuals and many of us rely on industrialised businesses to do many of the tasks we would so much rely on for survival after a SHTF event.
Several hundreds years ago most towns and cities could have been described as self sufficient as they were able to produce all they required without the industrialisation and petroleum industry we have today.
As I said earlier we are able in the good years to produce about 85 percent of our food. If I had help I would be able to cultivate more land and grow grains suitable for making bread and poultry food, olives for making oil etc.
After a serious SHTF event it is my belief that survival means living in communities whereby the members of that community are able to support each other and that they have the skills to do that. The production of food is going to be of the highest priority and regardless where the communities are water is going to have to be close by and readily accessible.
I have on this site mentioned this before but as I believe that it is so important I will repeat myself:- Unless you are already living where you believe that you have a good chance of surviving a SHTF scenario then I believe that you will end up struggling to survive.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Jul 26, 2016 22:34:14 GMT 10
I prefer the term semi-self sufficient [as it's more accurate for most] and it's my longer term aim for reasons of freedom and peace of mind. The plans are to take care of the veggies and fruit needs entirely with some excesses particularly in an orchid, some chooks for eggs. This would include a low-labor low-water system that allows for rapid expansion in times of need, I'm getting there. The other side of it is that I love having a supermarket available, internet and so on. Having 'an ability' to go fully self sufficient in desperate times makes sense, though to not enjoy the advantages of specialized labor that society also offers puts you in the dark ages lol. I'm not sure that's a good plan either.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Jul 27, 2016 9:30:25 GMT 10
We are fortunate to live a lifestyle that enables us in the years of good rainfall to be able to produce up to 85 percent of our nutritional needs with the added benefit of being able to produce a range of jams, fruit juices and preserves for other members of our family. We are also in those good years able to preserve a quantity of dried legumes such as beans and peas for several years of use as well as grow the likes of pumpkins and potatoes that will keep until the following harvest. For this water, and plenty of it is essential. Water, and plenty of it means you have the ability to produce food and it is because of this relationship when I usually talk about food I also include water as in my opinion you cannot have one without the other. Anton mentioned the term ‘self sufficiency’. Self sufficiency cannot be achieved by individual families or small groups. Larger groups/communities where there are enough people with the necessary skills to make all the required items that the people in that community require without having to rely on the industrialised system that we currently have. Butcher, Baker, Fletcher, Cook, Farmer etc. are some of the surnames we still have today and they reflect what their ancestors did in the days of yore. Today many of the skills reflected by those names have been lost by individuals and many of us rely on industrialised businesses to do many of the tasks we would so much rely on for survival after a SHTF event. Several hundreds years ago most towns and cities could have been described as self sufficient as they were able to produce all they required without the industrialisation and petroleum industry we have today. As I said earlier we are able in the good years to produce about 85 percent of our food. If I had help I would be able to cultivate more land and grow grains suitable for making bread and poultry food, olives for making oil etc. After a serious SHTF event it is my belief that survival means living in communities whereby the members of that community are able to support each other and that they have the skills to do that. The production of food is going to be of the highest priority and regardless where the communities are water is going to have to be close by and readily accessible. I have on this site mentioned this before but as I believe that it is so important I will repeat myself:- Unless you are already living where you believe that you have a good chance of surviving a SHTF scenario then I believe that you will end up struggling to survive. Thanks peter1942, you have said it so true. No need for me to put my thoughts forward now as you've said most things I would, like bring back the village. |
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