|
Post by Peter on Aug 18, 2017 23:33:57 GMT 10
...If you dont practice shooting in difficult conditions (under stress, around/over/through obstacles, in low light, bad weather etc), then I suggest you do so. Not every shot you might need to make will be sitting at a bench rest on a sunny day with no wind. Mr Fox may come for your chickens in high winds, heavy rain, dusk, when you're freezing cold or physically tired. Train easy, die easy. This is some of the most pragmatic advice I've heard in a long time. Thanks for sharing, frostbite.
|
|
blueshoes
Senior Member
Posts: 608
Likes: 698
Location: Regional Dan-istan
|
MZB's...
Aug 20, 2017 13:03:21 GMT 10
via mobile
Peter likes this
Post by blueshoes on Aug 20, 2017 13:03:21 GMT 10
I would almost certainly make like a tree, but first...
Sometimes in a wrol there are diseases going around. I'd have some yellow "quarantine" tape on me (or improvise and label some scene/emerg tape with "quarantine" and a disease name (whatever is worst within likelihood - h5n7, cholera... ?) then tape it over the front and maybe back doors. To add to the effect, I'd pour bleach near a door or window (so you can smell it). And have some medical kit - gloves, bag or three of used looking tissues - lying near the front. 50/50 whether that results in the place being torched, but there's something that might be worth trying...
Apologies to whoever's house it used to be, but that's probably my best chance of having any cache left unless there were hidden or hideable doors etc.
|
|
token
VIP Member
Posts: 766
Likes: 575
|
Post by token on Aug 21, 2017 22:25:17 GMT 10
I would almost certainly make like a tree, but first... Sometimes in a wrol there are diseases going around. I'd have some yellow "quarantine" tape on me (or improvise and label some scene/emerg tape with "quarantine" and a disease name (whatever is worst within likelihood - h5n7, cholera... ?) then tape it over the front and maybe back doors. To add to the effect, I'd pour bleach near a door or window (so you can smell it). And have some medical kit - gloves, bag or three of used looking tissues - lying near the front. 50/50 whether that results in the place being torched, but there's something that might be worth trying... Apologies to whoever's house it used to be, but that's probably my best chance of having any cache left unless there were hidden or hideable doors etc. Very smart! If you could get a corpse and leave it near the door rotting or charred from a burn, it would add significantly to the effect also.
|
|
fei
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Likes: 876
|
Post by fei on Aug 22, 2017 10:43:46 GMT 10
I would almost certainly make like a tree, but first... Sometimes in a wrol there are diseases going around. I'd have some yellow "quarantine" tape on me (or improvise and label some scene/emerg tape with "quarantine" and a disease name (whatever is worst within likelihood - h5n7, cholera... ?) then tape it over the front and maybe back doors. To add to the effect, I'd pour bleach near a door or window (so you can smell it). And have some medical kit - gloves, bag or three of used looking tissues - lying near the front. 50/50 whether that results in the place being torched, but there's something that might be worth trying... Apologies to whoever's house it used to be, but that's probably my best chance of having any cache left unless there were hidden or hideable doors etc. Very smart! If you could get a corpse and leave it near the door rotting or charred from a burn, it would add significantly to the effect also. I read a story about how an old guy did this right at the beginning of the Bosnian war. He was a kindly old school teacher with no guns at home, but when everything kicked off he raided a museum and took a WW2 machine gun home, sandbagged up his balcony then set the gun up. Next night he went around collecting bodies, which he then left around outside his front yard after a firefight. No-one touched him for the whole time the conflict went on, but were extremely surprised after the war to find that the gun couldn't even be fired and that the bodies they thought he'd killed were bodies of homeless that he'd found, supplemented by dead dogs etc. (No doubt all unrecognisable after a few days in the sun)
|
|
|
Post by frontsight on Aug 22, 2017 16:27:33 GMT 10
My rifles of choice would have been either a 22lr (lots of ammo for rabbits) and a 300blk. Both of them will have solvent traps installed (pls check yr state law) and my home make flask hider is already the same weight as the solvent trap adapter and the bottle. The group will still be slightly off but within a 2 inches at 100m. If possible, get any non shooters packed and sitting in the car, then snipe away at the AR guy and the guys around him, hang tight and see if the rest will leave.
If sniping Is not an option, shoot the ar guy and drive off as you fire at their general direction with the 12ga, it is not suppressive fite per se but no body likes to be shot at so will hopefully give you the few seconds to drive far enough.
This is not ideal as you are pretty screwed at the first place.
You just can't win a gun fight 1 to 20. The only time that I would consider standing my ground would be when there's no way out and the gang has demonstrated that they will likely torture people to death. Any other times, live and fight another day.
|
|
|
MZB's...
Aug 22, 2017 17:09:07 GMT 10
via mobile
Peter likes this
Post by frontsight on Aug 22, 2017 17:09:07 GMT 10
Another thing to consider, althought I am not sure if I want to live badly enough to try. Assuming brick housrs are they are far enough away each other, you could try to snipe the AR guy and as many around him, then fire bomb the houses around you yourself. That MAY create enough choas and convince anyone not shot/burnt to leave.
|
|
fei
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Likes: 876
|
Post by fei on Aug 22, 2017 20:02:33 GMT 10
I'm wondering where are the people we were visiting (for all I know they went to the local gun shop an hour ago and are due back any minute with 20 of their mates and an arsenal of guns).
More to the point, what are the other neighbours all doing? Are they quaking in their boots but doing nothing / trying to bug out / barricading their doors or what? What if I try to take the family out over the back fence, only to be attacked by the neighbour behind who thinks we are trying to break in?
|
|
|
Post by frontsight on Aug 22, 2017 22:29:15 GMT 10
I guess you best bet to deal with it as it unfolds, change plans if necessary. 20 murderous thugs WILL hurt me, next door neighbour MAY hurt me, I will take me chances unless I know the guys next door are violent crazy type (why am I staying there at the first place then).
|
|
shinester
Senior Member
China's white trash
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 3,578
Email: shiny@ausprep.org
|
Post by shinester on Aug 23, 2017 10:29:48 GMT 10
20 versus 2, and with no support [why am I in this spot in the first place!] ..no question, get out, can't win that fight or hold them off in a siege. Better I survive today and work out the next details, go now. If I have time and ability to carry, then blade/container/rope/shelter/bag as well as any firearm/ammo. Can always come back and claim the other houses or my own after they've gone. I want the odds stacked in my favor, this is not. Pick them off via long distance attrition, perhaps... not like this though.
|
|
grumble
Senior Member
Posts: 455
Likes: 777
|
Post by grumble on Aug 23, 2017 14:37:01 GMT 10
gee you guys are bunch of unsociable types no one said they'd invite them in for a nice cup of tea and a chat
|
|
|
MZB's...
Aug 23, 2017 15:24:51 GMT 10
via mobile
Post by frontsight on Aug 23, 2017 15:24:51 GMT 10
Actually, I have done lots is IPSC and still shoot weekly, done night shoots, house clearing (I wore uniform then) and played with suppressors and long range rifles a lot when I was overseas but hell, I still don't like my chances of fighting 1/2 to 20. It gets even harder in urban areas (army sniper picks the spot In the field, the spot picks the police sniper In the city) and have non combatants with me.
I do however not necessarily agree with no using the car. Getting away undected may be hard for unprepped partner and small children. As a prepper, it should already be parked in a way that is accessible yet not in plain sights. With a bit of luck (lots of luck) you will cover over 100 meters in a few seconds which will greatly reduce the chance of getting hit by an average shooter in a hurry. Hitting a moving target in a hurry ain't easy at 50 meters (they that far away) for an average person. I guess it all depends, if they are ex mil, thats a run down platoon or 2 sections, you are pretty much buggered at the start of the thread.
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Mar 17, 2018 14:20:03 GMT 10
Interesting.
I would be wanting to acquire that AR15 and all the ammo the dude has to boost capability of my own group. Can't just run away an lose the opportunity to get more firepower ... but certainly don't want to get in a stubborn gunfight and let them surround you in a house that they can burn you all alive in either.
So ...
1. Quietly leave on foot with all occupants via the back fence. 2. Establish other occupants in some other location about an hour distant on foot. 3. Return to observe the looter group armed with a hatchet sourced from a garden shed. (No point at all in getting into a gunfight at this point. Best let them beleive they are masters of the universe without fear of opposition.) 4. Spend upto 48 hours looking for a reasonable opportunity to split the AR15 armed dudes skull from behind using hatchet (this would typically be when he's taking a crap by himself) at a time and place where you might have 10 seconds to snatch his gun and ammo before quietly sneaking away or legging it with the howling mob in hot pusuit blazing off plenty of ammo. If nothing presents within 48 hours move to step 5. 5. Having acquired the AR15 (or established its too risky to try) quietly move your group away to some place nicer ... like the countryside.
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Mar 17, 2018 21:13:45 GMT 10
So you'd leave your family an hour away while taking 48 hours to scout the looters?
When I was a teenager I could go a couple of days without sleep, but I fear I'd struggle in my 40's...
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Mar 18, 2018 12:22:51 GMT 10
Well I left the guns with them so they have some capacity to protect themselves. My advice to them would be to move rather than fight and make pre-arrangements for a rally point further afield etc.
Everyone has different risk perception and risk appetite. I think it's risky to not try and capitalise on opportunity to acquire superior firepower. It's also a morale issue to some degree. Too much fleeing without finding opportunities to hit back at aggressors is depressing in the long run. IMO you gotta at least run recon and try. If you get hands on an AR15 now you're that much better off going forward.
I work on two principles for survival in a long-term lawless situation. Increase group size and increase firepower ASAP.
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Mar 18, 2018 19:10:56 GMT 10
One major consideration is the personalities of your family whom you are fortifying.
Mrs Pete - and I'm not belittling her in the least here - would find it difficult to use firearms to fend off attackers; it's just not the person she is (although never mess with a mamma bear defending her cubs!). We'd do much better if I'm doing the shooting and she's supporting (reloading magazines, etc).
And then there's the kids - some children freeze in a crisis, others lose discipline, some follow directions to the letter (or so I'm told). I know a number of very young children who scream at the top of their lungs - I'm talking about the most piercing, shrill, deafening sound imaginable - whenever they experience unfamiliar stressors.
Unfortunately it can be hard to know anyone's reactions in a crisis - regardless of age - until they're in the midst of one.
|
|
Morgo
Senior Member
Posts: 682
Likes: 661
|
Post by Morgo on Mar 18, 2018 19:41:20 GMT 10
During a WROL I can think of easier ways to get/find a self loading rifle then potentially end up taking on a heap of pissed off armed men when they find me sneaking around their area.
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Mar 18, 2018 22:21:11 GMT 10
frostbite there's no sarcasm here... I truly hope that my little girl (way under 10yo atm) grows to be as badass as your daughter. Although I'm not sure about the laughter bit... There's a real shortage of strong people of strong character - both men and women - in the world these days. Too many softies.
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Mar 19, 2018 17:00:24 GMT 10
During a WROL I can think of easier ways to get/find a self loading rifle then potentially end up taking on a heap of pissed off armed men when they find me sneaking around their area. And what are those easier ways?
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Mar 19, 2018 17:04:27 GMT 10
My wife no slouch with a gun and pretty handy with martial arts too. But the scenario did specify ones partner in this case is not that way inclined.
It's good that everyone has different approaches to situations like this ... it helps with Darwinian selection and makes us adaptable.
|
|
Morgo
Senior Member
Posts: 682
Likes: 661
|
Post by Morgo on Mar 19, 2018 18:57:27 GMT 10
During a WROL I can think of easier ways to get/find a self loading rifle then potentially end up taking on a heap of pissed off armed men when they find me sneaking around their area. And what are those easier ways? Plenty of ways, self loaders are not rare though the best way is knowing the right people before SHTF.
|
|