bug
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Post by bug on Jan 23, 2021 17:35:03 GMT 10
Well said @spinifex.
Our utilities are still mostly government owned. Just not by the Australian government.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 0:23:34 GMT 10
I gotta say the Forum does, from time to time, seem to get a bit too fixated voicing anti-socialism and falling into Left V Right arguments. Just remember ... Australia from 1940's to the Early 80's was effectively a model Socialist State. Most big business and infrastructure was publicly owned and run by Government before privatisation. Power, water, railways, mines, sugar mills, the entire grain handling system, medical manufacturers. Many other industries that we hold dear were subsidised by Government to keep them alive: Car, truck and heavy machinery manufacturing, ship building, steel mills and large parts of the irrigated agriculture infrastructure. Some important parts of our every day lives: health and education especially, still are a model of Socialism which hands-down beats the alternative systems adopted by places like the US. Time to learn the difference between 'Socialism' and 'Authoritarianism'. From all the comments I see here ... its the Authoritarianism (both left and right and any place in-between) that people seem to ACTUALLY object to. Its definitely what I object to. Left V Right is what the rich and powerful Authoritarians use as a TOOL to get the rest of us masses to fight with each other.
How about we DON'T fall for that play?Not trying to de-value your post, but the beginings of the socialist expiriments during the 20th century indeed were motivated by trying to improve life for the masses but ended up delivering untold suffering, economical deprivation and political tyranny. Just have a look at the soviet union and russia now.The last 30 or so years socialism has been amalgamated into more liberal governments but at the same time are still authoritarian capitalist in nature by way of two party preferred political parties that are the dominant forces in any election, left vs right, red vs blue, divide and conquer etc. We have never really left our Mercantile roots, by any other name all these political ism's come back to this age old economic policy.
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Post by milspec on Jan 24, 2021 6:14:31 GMT 10
I'm glad to see some robust discussion from both perspectives (and they are perspectives because we're all on the same side as far as being preppers is concerned). Strongly held perspectives discussed in a civil manner is something that is lacking in many walks of life. I think such discussion is a good thing, it gives people an opportunity to hear alternatives and challenge/reevaluate one's own perspectives. I suspect the lack of such robust discussion is why we see many of the divides in society today.
Good work people. Keep on keeping it civil.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Jan 24, 2021 13:46:58 GMT 10
I'm glad to see some robust discussion from both perspectives (and they are perspectives because we're all on the same side as far as being preppers is concerned). Strongly held perspectives discussed in a civil manner is something that is lacking in many walks of life. I think such discussion is a good thing, it gives people an opportunity to hear alternatives and challenge/reevaluate one's own perspectives. I suspect the lack of such robust discussion is why we see many of the divides in society today. Good work people. Keep on keeping it civil. The biggest problem i find is an alarming majority of people are so misinformed they can't actually hold a civil debate and the moment you highlight concerns that you have which are based on hard factual data from more than one source including sources that you may consider from the other side they instantly fall back in to the position of name calling and throwing out titles like Snowflake , latte sipper , trump supporter , some sort of phobic and the favorite one "you must be racist " Now when this happens i know the other person has no factual data that's provable so their point is purely ideology based. My point is the last 10 years this has really picked up and i prefer to not get involved in any political discussions as i feel that even if i can give people documentation proof it matters little because its all about the ideology not the functionality Truth of the matter is people need to spend more time out of the echo chamber and smell the flowers in the real world
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Post by spinifex on Jan 24, 2021 17:04:34 GMT 10
I gotta say the Forum does, from time to time, seem to get a bit too fixated voicing anti-socialism and falling into Left V Right arguments. Just remember ... Australia from 1940's to the Early 80's was effectively a model Socialist State. Most big business and infrastructure was publicly owned and run by Government before privatisation. Power, water, railways, mines, sugar mills, the entire grain handling system, medical manufacturers. Many other industries that we hold dear were subsidised by Government to keep them alive: Car, truck and heavy machinery manufacturing, ship building, steel mills and large parts of the irrigated agriculture infrastructure. Some important parts of our every day lives: health and education especially, still are a model of Socialism which hands-down beats the alternative systems adopted by places like the US. Time to learn the difference between 'Socialism' and 'Authoritarianism'. From all the comments I see here ... its the Authoritarianism (both left and right and any place in-between) that people seem to ACTUALLY object to. Its definitely what I object to. Left V Right is what the rich and powerful Authoritarians use as a TOOL to get the rest of us masses to fight with each other.
How about we DON'T fall for that play?the beginings of the socialist expiriments during the 20th century indeed were motivated by trying to improve life for the masses but ended up delivering untold suffering, economical deprivation and political tyranny. Just have a look at the soviet union and russia now. And I'll say again ... the Soviet Union, Communist China et. al. were epic fails for the mass population due to Authoritarianism. Not Socialism. Authoritarianism is why China will collapse from within at some point even if the rest of the planet does nothing. Authoritarianism is why feudalism and Papal Power were pretty shit for the great majority of people and why those systems eventually collapsed from within in Europe too. The best societies have a healthy mixing of socialist policies with capitalism and suppressing Authoritarian tendencies in its leadership.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Jan 24, 2021 20:54:35 GMT 10
the beginings of the socialist expiriments during the 20th century indeed were motivated by trying to improve life for the masses but ended up delivering untold suffering, economical deprivation and political tyranny. Just have a look at the soviet union and russia now. And I'll say again ... the Soviet Union, Communist China et. al. were epic fails for the mass population due to Authoritarianism. Not Socialism. Authoritarianism is why China will collapse from within at some point even if the rest of the planet does nothing. Authoritarianism is why feudalism and Papal Power were pretty shit for the great majority of people and why those systems eventually collapsed from within in Europe too. The best societies have a healthy mixing of socialist policies with capitalism and suppressing Authoritarian tendencies in its leadership. I agree. This is why we need to really scrutinise policy related to the covid response. There are some legitimate concerns with Victorias response in comparison to say NSW. WA is a bit out there too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 21:43:41 GMT 10
the beginings of the socialist expiriments during the 20th century indeed were motivated by trying to improve life for the masses but ended up delivering untold suffering, economical deprivation and political tyranny. Just have a look at the soviet union and russia now. And I'll say again ... the Soviet Union, Communist China et. al. were epic fails for the mass population due to Authoritarianism. Not Socialism. Authoritarianism is why China will collapse from within at some point even if the rest of the planet does nothing. Authoritarianism is why feudalism and Papal Power were pretty shit for the great majority of people and why those systems eventually collapsed from within in Europe too. The best societies have a healthy mixing of socialist policies with capitalism and suppressing Authoritarian tendencies in its leadership. Well it has to start/begin somewhere and for the soviets it started with Socialism in One Country and the ideology of the communist party, so Authoritarianism is born out of these ideologies. What in your opinion would be the best societies as you say here ? "The best societies have a healthy mixing of socialist policies with capitalism and suppressing Authoritarian tendencies in its leadership."
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 30, 2021 21:16:58 GMT 10
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 31, 2021 16:51:24 GMT 10
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 31, 2021 16:54:10 GMT 10
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 31, 2021 16:57:03 GMT 10
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 31, 2021 17:08:39 GMT 10
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 31, 2021 21:45:23 GMT 10
www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/russias-putin-warns-of-a-fight-of-all-against-all-at-wef.htmlPutin's uncensored WEF speech - danger of a "huge collapse Last week, a meeting of the World Economic Forum (WEF) took place. The Davos week with the theme "Great Reset" was held digitally this time, which made it unnecessary for participants to travel to Davos, Switzerland. Vladimir Putin attended the World Economic Forum this week. Putin spoke of socioeconomic and sociopolitical challenges and warned against too much power of big-tech companies; he also lamented the deterioration of the global security system. The Russian president was joined Wednesday from Novo-Ogaryovo in the Moscow region to give his assessment of the current world situation and possible scenarios in the Great Reset currently taking place. Putin said clearly that he felt the world was on the brink of a precipice that would lead to a dramatic negative downward spiral if proper action was not taken now to address the serious problems. The destruction of the economy in the industrialized countries is causing people to take to the streets in protest. Political views play no role in this. Klaus Schwab's illusion that this can be disregarded is dangerous, because in this case society will be divided politically and socially, Putin warned at the World Economic Forum in Davos. "There is a possibility of a real collapse of civilization, which could lead to the struggle of all against all," the Russian president said in no uncertain terms. Putin urges fight against poverty Vladimir Putin said the world faces two challenges, one socioeconomic and one sociopolitical. He stressed that developing countries were the main beneficiaries of the Great Reset. However, the result, he said, was the gap between citizens in the old industrialized countries. With this in mind, he said, the most important goal was therefore poverty reduction. Putin said that if poverty in developing countries could be addressed, there would be no migration crises. Meanwhile, the Russian leader said that big-tech digital companies are playing an increasingly important role in modern society: "These are no longer just economic giants, they are already competing in real terms with the state in some areas."
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doglover
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Post by doglover on Feb 1, 2021 9:27:58 GMT 10
www.cnbc.com/2021/01/27/russias-putin-warns-of-a-fight-of-all-against-all-at-wef.htmlPutin's uncensored WEF speech - danger of a "huge collapse Last week, a meeting of the World Economic Forum (WEF) took place. The Davos week with the theme "Great Reset" was held digitally this time, which made it unnecessary for participants to travel to Davos, Switzerland. Vladimir Putin attended the World Economic Forum this week. Putin spoke of socioeconomic and sociopolitical challenges and warned against too much power of big-tech companies; he also lamented the deterioration of the global security system. The Russian president was joined Wednesday from Novo-Ogaryovo in the Moscow region to give his assessment of the current world situation and possible scenarios in the Great Reset currently taking place. Putin said clearly that he felt the world was on the brink of a precipice that would lead to a dramatic negative downward spiral if proper action was not taken now to address the serious problems. The destruction of the economy in the industrialized countries is causing people to take to the streets in protest. Political views play no role in this. Klaus Schwab's illusion that this can be disregarded is dangerous, because in this case society will be divided politically and socially, Putin warned at the World Economic Forum in Davos. "There is a possibility of a real collapse of civilization, which could lead to the struggle of all against all," the Russian president said in no uncertain terms. Putin urges fight against poverty Vladimir Putin said the world faces two challenges, one socioeconomic and one sociopolitical. He stressed that developing countries were the main beneficiaries of the Great Reset. However, the result, he said, was the gap between citizens in the old industrialized countries. With this in mind, he said, the most important goal was therefore poverty reduction. Putin said that if poverty in developing countries could be addressed, there would be no migration crises. Meanwhile, the Russian leader said that big-tech digital companies are playing an increasingly important role in modern society: "These are no longer just economic giants, they are already competing in real terms with the state in some areas." I have always felt we were just one disaster away from a world wide societal collapse. I honestly figured it would come more likely from a loss of the electrical grids. Wether by natural causes or sabotage from enemies makes little difference. I know one thing for certain. Putin is smart. He may be evil in many ways too, but I hold plenty of respect for him. He is crafty, ruthless, and many other things, but I have no doubt of his intelligence. If he is worried about the economy enough to admit it publicly then I believe it’s worth taking it seriously.
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doglover
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Post by doglover on Feb 1, 2021 10:38:28 GMT 10
He dwelled on inequality and social divisions, but without real solutions. It rang hollow for the leader of a country that has hardly been exemplary in spreading around wealth, not least by being comparably frugal in its Covid-19 support to households.
This was all the info I could find on Putin talking about economic issues. Most of what he was saying was about the evil big tech social media companies. Of course he dosent like anyone that can spread news of the things he has done,,,, free speech hasn’t exactly been a Russian thing in the past.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Feb 1, 2021 16:54:40 GMT 10
The reset will involve a collapse of the economy, possibly an emp event (Russia cant find over 50 of their suitcase nukes), the rich will lose it all, and then take it out on the rest of us. You will need to survive for a minimum of 3 moths on your own devices, after that local barter markets will start to happen, and then after 6 months all the zombies should have died out, and after 18 months things should get a bit smoother.
Incontinance hotline "Can you hold please ?"
The person who never makes mistakes must get tired of doing nothing !
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Post by spinifex on Feb 3, 2021 7:47:23 GMT 10
Why do zombies die out after 6 months? And why do things get smooth after just 18 months?
Is there a historic precedent that your forecast is based on?
Based on titanic economic/military upheavals experienced by places like Russia, China and banana republics the world over ... the zombies adapt pretty fast and become fierce competitors and life ranges from brutal to merely difficult for between 5 years and 4 decades.
Have a read about the break-up of former Yugoslavia. Survivors accounts from places where ethnic cleansing was rampant and where there was no organised economy for many years always make for good learning.
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bug
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Post by bug on Feb 4, 2021 7:11:58 GMT 10
Yugoslavia is the best modern example. Plenty of people who lived through it now reside in Australia. The keys to surviving were:
- Have the ability to fix things. Being able to repair a stove is important and becomes a source of income. Being a skilled investment analyst is not. - Be armed. The unarmed didn't last long. Not just formal enemies, but thieves, rapists etc. - Don't be alone. Many 'survivalists' seem to be in love with the 'lone wolf' fantasy. It rarely holds up in reality.
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Post by spinifex on Feb 4, 2021 7:35:57 GMT 10
What happens when Authoritarians apply a "great reset" and average people resist? Here is one outcome from the history books. The Holodomor ... www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 4, 2021 11:01:05 GMT 10
And don't let your children line up for ice cream, because some Yugos are happy to headshot children.
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