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Post by Joey on Feb 13, 2016 15:57:34 GMT 10
Just curious if anybody has done any calculations on land size suitable for self sustaining living as far as meat and fruit/veg goes.
Trying to find what would be suitable size to work towards. The banks say anything over 60ac will require a 50% deposit and anything under will be the usual 30%.
I am looking at running around 3 head of meat cattle and a few fox bait chickens in their hutch. And the usual seasonal veggies like potatoes, carrots, onions, corn, beans, and a few varieties of fruit trees. Only looking at enough to keep a small family going through the year to limit the trips to the supermarket for food items. Any excess food that can't be eaten can be canned away for end days.
Would like more land then is bare minimum so I can hunt any ferals on the property as well.
Do you guys have any property plans as far as plant layouts you can share to help give me an idea on layouts etc.
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Post by Peter on Feb 13, 2016 16:47:54 GMT 10
I'm with frostbite on this - there's no point having hectares of land if there's not enough water to meet the needs of people, plants and animals.
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Post by thereth on Feb 13, 2016 17:15:17 GMT 10
Ill third frost and pete. I only have 5 acres but water issues around here means any nore than that is pointless.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Feb 13, 2016 17:21:01 GMT 10
Hi Joey, yes I have done the calculations (for me anyway) I think it would be wise to really think about what the land can carry as opposed to what you want it to carry. Three acres would be the bare minimum for the the three meat cattle, as this equates to one acre per head which I think is standard for cattle. However this does not take into account pasture, rotations, and fallow/green manure years nor the area required to have an orchard, a veg plot and a home. The best examples that I have seen for self-sustaining living (incredibly hard to achieve let alone maintain) that does not require additional labour (WOOFERS, interns, paid labour, etc) is from two (some meat animals) to 50 acres (a mob of sheep or a number of head of cattle).
I make no apology for my stance that I abide by when it comes to people wanting to live The Good Life: it's bloody hard work. The more acres the more fencing, more water points (for stock), more soil amendments …. just more of everything and you'll soon burn out trying to do it all (not to mention your bank balance!). Then there's both the initial cost and the ongoing costs of larger acreages.
Do you really need to have large stock (cattle) or could you run smaller stock (sheep, goat, pig as an example)? If you do want to run cattle how will you handle the slaughter and butchering?
Sorry if I offend, but I offer my advice in the bets intent.
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Post by Joey on Feb 13, 2016 20:13:46 GMT 10
Thanks guys, I now where you are all coming from. But choosing the actual block will come later after I have a hunt around. At this stage it's just the best workable size that I'm after so I can short list and go hunting for a place with the right soil, the right rainfall, the right runoff, flood zones etc.
Assuming for the meantime, I have found a block, with moderate annual rainfall, alright soil conditions (not rocky, not on the side of a hill-but 1 hill would be good for a prepper lookout-, etc) 3 head of cattle is what I figure to be enough to feed the family through the year (kill 1 and replace with calf etc) at first I would get a mobile butcher out to do the first 1 or 2 and show me how it's done, so later on I can do my own. And as mentioned for the fruit/veggies, again enough to feed the seasonal crops throughout the year, beit, I have 1 bed for winter and 1 bed for summer and 1 bed for all round, so when the winter crops are in, the summer bed is recovering and getting it's goodness back in again while out of season.
All this would add up to weekly shopping bills reducing so that more money can be out on the home loan to knock it off. Obviously setup costs will be a bit, but in the long run. Also it would get me already setup and in the right frame of mind if SHTF.
I don't really want to go anything less then 10acres, as that will mean the neighbours will be close, and I want plenty of privacy, especially when prepping, unless the surrounding blocks are vacant.
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Feb 14, 2016 10:04:37 GMT 10
By cattle do you mean cows? Pretty sure that cows take about 2 years to go from calf to fully grown bag of meat so having 3 might not be enough.. I'm not an expert though. I'd probably look at having a bunch of chickens, rabbits and goats instead. Though you were probably already going to have both haha
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tails
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Post by tails on Feb 14, 2016 10:27:55 GMT 10
Some considerations you may wish to consider.
As previously mentioned you may want to reconsider having cows. The concept is ok but to actually get the full benefit of having them and to get a good return of meat then you will not be knocking these on the head till they are rising 2 years.
Also for breeding purposes are you planning to have a bull or have them artificially inseminated... This is ok for now but after an "event" what will be your plan...
If you have 3 girls, with 3 babies will literally mean that you will have 6 cows on the property varying in age. (unless its the plan to have 2 adults and 1 calf at any point in time or 1 adult and 2 calves of different ages.)
You will need to have a replacement program in place to replace your adult for when they wear out (so to speak)
Another consideration is mother nature.... you maybe destined to have boys only or girls... will upset your planning cycle after an event...
Then we have unplanned deaths to consider....
When they are butchered will you have enough storage space to store these for the long term... ie a big freezer..
Advantages is that you will have milk for your coffee and cereal in the mornings.
1 cows grazing roughly equals about 4 sheep. (not sure on the goats probably about the same.)
Sheep are picky eaters and they will graze your grass supply to ground level before starting on anything else so if you have a dry spell it will bugger your paddock. also you will need to grow hay etc to cover the winter months. Note this feed only keeps their bellies full and alive...
Goats eat everything including gorse weeds etc..
Advantages for both is that you only need to knock them on the head when your hungry so you can target your boys first followed by dry girls, leaving a good herd of breeders... and goat taste bloody nice.
Have you considered rabbits, put them in hutches or cages and you will have an alternative food source. you will get a better return for your money and they breed every chance they get.
I highly recommend you talk to people who are doing it now and listen to them especially all the bad stuff... as you will need to factor this in before making a final commitment. cause it will get expensive especially vet bills.
My neighbour runs 4 cows on 10 acres all year round and during drought times he struggles to feed them end of summer and during winter.
As an idea I run 20 sheep (including offspring) on my property (6 acres) plus use the other neighbours 8 acres successfully for about 9-10 months of the year then they are off the property. (to give it a rest and let the grass grow ready for winter. (big problems when there's a drought)
Depending on the area you finally decide on you will need to check and talk with the locals and be prepared to change your numbers... and plan for the worse. when you run out of feed and there's a drought on, the cost of feed sky rockets and if you decide to sell your stock the price per head drops.
apart from all this and the fact it is shear hard work you are right, its heaps cheaper to feed yourself and there's nothing like sitting back at the end of the day with a cold beer and chilling out thinking of what you have achieved.
You cannot put a price on that sort of satisfaction.
good luck with your dream son. it is worth it. 90% of the time...
as for privacy nothing like a few different variety of trees to fix that problem. (has advantages of providing shade as well as shelter for your stock as well).
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Post by Joey on Feb 14, 2016 11:55:17 GMT 10
I wasn't really going to go for any breeding, was just thinking of buying poddy calves at auction. In Qld I can't keep rabbits. But I had planned to have a few chooks for eggs etc. I would like around central Qld so it's close enough for job opportunities for me in the mines. Obviously closer to the coast will have better odds of regular rain, but at the cost of paying more for the land. I would consider goat or sheep, if we ate them in my family. But I only eat chicken and beef and the missus only eats chicken beef and pork. So really limiting things there.
If it works out too much drama running cows, I'll just look for a large block suited to prepping that I can grow my fruit and veggies and have a few chickens and buy meat at the shops. And leave the rest of the land for hunting, or lease it to a neighbor for running his cattle on it.
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Post by jo on Feb 14, 2016 12:22:44 GMT 10
Have you thought about farming guinea pigs... not your usual meat but you can keep them in any state, are cheap to feed, breed like rabbits and apparent they taste like chicken!?!
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Post by Peter on Feb 14, 2016 12:29:13 GMT 10
I've considered raising guinea pigs in our [suburban] backyard for food.
Pros (or so I've been told): - They're cheap to buy - they're cheap to feed - they breed prolifically - once cooked, it's really easy to convince guests & children that they're having rat for dinner.
Cons: - Kids tend to see them more as pets than food. While my goal is to train this view out of them, Mrs Pete keeps on with the "cute & cuddly" argument. Maybe it's because her dad fed them their family cow when she was young...
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Post by jo on Feb 14, 2016 12:40:22 GMT 10
Im sure that when Mrs Pete smells them roasting (if she is hungry she would change her mind
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Feb 14, 2016 16:17:52 GMT 10
Prepper who only eats chicken or beef... tell him he's dreaming
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 17:14:15 GMT 10
Joey, I think your best bet is to seek the knowledge and advice of those people who are doing, right now, what you are planning/calculating to purchase and set-up. For example, you mentioned "the right runoff". This is actually something you want to avoid at all costs! A number of the comments above are very perspective and I agree with their intent. Just trying to help ...
~ M ~
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Post by thereth on Feb 14, 2016 18:49:27 GMT 10
Cows are a massive issie if you are looking at smaller blocks. They take up and consume so much fodder compared to other animals it is insane. Tbh goats are the best animal for small holdings along with pigs, goats will give you milk so even if you dont eat them, you can still get milk without having to allocate up to 4-5 acres like for some cows, and if you find you have a couple goats to many, you can sell/swap/trade locally for something you do eat.
However if your heart is set on cattle i have found in my own research that the dexter is the best hands down for small holders if you want meat and milk, they are a small breed and after just rechecking wiki they get to about 450kg for bulls and 300-350kg for cows with a dress percentage of between 50 and 70%. The also produce up to 10l of milk a day, which is plenty for a calf to fill up on and for you to have enough for cheese, cream, butter etc.
We only have 5 acres and i will be looking at a dexter breeding pair once i get the clay crap here sorted out with some nice pasture and shrubs, however i will probably still need to bring in feed which is fine as i found a local bloke who will give me a good trade on a spit pig for feed
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Post by SA Hunter on Feb 14, 2016 22:15:59 GMT 10
My 2c worth - I'm currently looking for some land - where I live ( Lower Eyre Peninsula ), land is very expensive, good cropping land. There is a lot of scrub, but it is very rocky, and there is no natural about ground water, except for a few creeks here and there. To buy any land I could afford means it is rocky, poor dirt quality, and possibly too bare to grow weeds!!! As well as soil quality & water, there is other considerations - remoteness, visibility from roads, is it near a major highway??? Rainfall? Bushfire prone?? Extreme summer/winter weather? How much land do you need to support say, three cattle? Check with local farmers/stock agents on this one. For me, I would need about 80-100 acres just to exist with the basics. But, depending where you are, you may only need a few acres. I've also seen shows where people have become self sufficient for vegetables and meat just from what they grow/raise in their backyard. I'm with you, looking, planning, and hoping the right block falls into my lap. Good luck with it all.
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myrrph
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Post by myrrph on Feb 15, 2016 12:59:20 GMT 10
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1aozn1/how_much_land_does_it_take_to_support_one_human/
very little apparently but it depends on whether you have access to clean water.
I think if you mix aquaponics with your cows and chickens (like wasn't that a cartoon?) plus some fruit trees, reasonable 1 ACRE should support a family of 4 comfortably ?
Watch the first episode of Doomsday preppers, the guy with the pygmy goats, chickens and tilapia... that should feed their entire family pretty well post-SHTF
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