remnantprep
Senior Member
People do not exist for the sake of governments!
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Post by remnantprep on Jul 8, 2016 14:20:51 GMT 10
I borrowed this poll from a UK newspaper! Rather a leading question I feel, it should read 'Who will start WW3?'
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Post by SA Hunter on Jul 8, 2016 14:29:45 GMT 10
NATO/US is using the build up of their forces on the borders of Russia as a counter measure of Russia's aggression!! But, where is Russia's aggression? ? Here's something I posted beforehand that is very much along this topic:
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Post by ziggysdad on Jul 8, 2016 18:27:08 GMT 10
At this point, 6 of 9 respondents believe there will be a war. With what has been happening in the South China Sea and Russians bombing Syria, I'm increasingly worried there will be a WWIII. Who starts it isn't as important as who finishes it.
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Post by frontsight on Jul 8, 2016 21:42:39 GMT 10
At this point, 6 of 9 respondents believe there will be a war. With what has been happening in the South China Sea and Russians bombing Syria, I'm increasingly worried there will be a WWIII. Who starts it isn't as important as who finishes it. I am one of the odd 3 . I think there may be border skirmishes but not all out war. I may not agree with the leaders of Russia/China/America/UK/EU/whatever but I don't think the leaders of these major players are insane nor that stupid. Albert Einstein once said 'I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.' The fear of WW3 may well work in our favor, to me Cold War 2 is more likely This is an interesting time, mankind did not have self loading guns and nukes for thousands of year, but there were no such thing as globalization, internet, advanced medicine, civil right movement, elected heads of state until recent times in our history neither.... we can split atoms and send men to space, hopefully we hold out long enough to learn be to nice to one another.... I could be wrong (according to my GF, I often am), if I am, hopefully I can get to my BOL.... Prep for the worst, hope for the best and have some fun while it last, on that note, let me get a bottle of beer out of the Ausgrid powered fridge
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Post by ziggysdad on Jul 8, 2016 22:52:25 GMT 10
Good point frontsight. Do I want WWIII...absolutely not. Does it feel like the world's superpowers are backing each other into corners...absolutely.
November will be an interesting time.
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tyburn
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Post by tyburn on Jul 13, 2016 23:28:03 GMT 10
Good point frontsight. Do I want WWIII...absolutely not. Does it feel like the world's superpowers are backing each other into corners...absolutely. November will be an interesting time. I wonder how much of the backing into corners is actually being done for domestic audiences, to take people's minds off the crap economy, crap pollies etc? I'm luckily out of China for a few weeks, as I'm sure all the anti-foreign stuff that the government has been stirring up over the South China Sea ruling will eventually blow up into protests and anti-foreign sentiment (as the government has allowed to happen before when they wanted people to stop noticing domestic troubles). I work with a bunch of Russians, most of whom reckon Putin is pretty good; regardless of the fact that he has made his mates extremely rich, cracked down on the media, devalued the ruble etc. If a real-live shooting war starts up, I do wonder if they will change their perceptions of him though?
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Post by Fractus on Jul 14, 2016 6:49:14 GMT 10
Turmoil in the Sth China sea will give Putin a chance to be naughty in Europe but as said earlier in thread, it will be half way between hot and Cold War primarily for domestic consumption and the people of the world will be the ones who suffer with food and fuel shortages. Appease China and they take more, resist and it will be the same. They will take as much as they think they can get away with. USA sail byes and rhetoric will not be enough.
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remnantprep
Senior Member
People do not exist for the sake of governments!
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Post by remnantprep on Jul 14, 2016 10:57:10 GMT 10
Turmoil in the Sth China sea will give Putin a chance to be naughty in Europe but as said earlier in thread, it will be half way between hot and Cold War primarily for domestic consumption and the people of the world will be the ones who suffer with food and fuel shortages. Appease China and they take more, resist and it will be the same. They will take as much as they think they can get away with. USA sail byes and rhetoric will not be enough. They last few days I have been thinking how the appeasement going on with China is similar to what happened with Hitler! They are just delaying the inevitable! Food and fuel shortages will be a huge issue again just as it was during ww2! The areas where the majority of the fighting will occur, are major trade routes! It won't only be food and fuel either think of all the cheap clothing we get from China and all the other stuff! I am storing enough clothing for my daughter for the next 3 years of age she needs to grow. Australia could be self sufficient in many things but we may not have enough fuel for it all!
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Post by SA Hunter on Jul 14, 2016 16:44:58 GMT 10
Great comments here - further to that, China is only pushing the boundary as long as they can to a perceived US weakness. But, also, if they go to war, then their economy suffers as they are reliant on exports, though war economies do replace standard economies as long as there is a constant flow of food, oil, metals, rubber etc. The South China Sea is definitely taking the spotlight of Russia, who I believe are being pushed into a corner.
China on the other hand..................................!
We would have no choice but to get involved in a war in the South China Sea if it happens - it may just be a few shots here, a few missiles there, a few lost planes, a lost ship or two, then who knows. An all out war would savage our economy - oil imports would have to take a massive detour, and we have no refineries, so price of oil would go through the roof!!
Nth Korea could use this as an excuse to invade the South, the US military is weakened and fewer in number.......
Possibilities are endless............... as frostbite mentioned, here's another excuse to stock up!!!!!
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Post by graynomad on Jul 15, 2016 17:57:55 GMT 10
As indeed I have been saying, but I was talking to a car-nut mate of mine (a non prepper) the other day and he said we do still have one refinery.
Anyone know for sure?
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Post by SA Hunter on Jul 15, 2016 18:02:16 GMT 10
Well, I stand corrected - there are a few refineries left!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries#AustraliaAustralia
New South WalesKurnell Refinery (Caltex), 124,500 bbl/d (19,790 m3/d),[51] Botany Bay Closed in 2014 and converted to a terminal Clyde Refinery (Royal Dutch Shell), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d), Clyde Closed in 2012 and converted to a terminal VictoriaGeelong Refinery (Vitol), 130,000 bbl/d (21,000 m3/d), Geelong Altona Refinery (ExxonMobil), about 75,000 bbl/d (11,900 m3/d), Altona North (refinery reduced from 2 trains to 1 train between 2000–2004) QueenslandBulwer Island Refinery (BP), 90,000 bbl/d (14,000 m3/d), Bulwer Island Closed in 2015 and converted to a jet terminal Lytton Refinery (Caltex), 104,000 bbl/d (16,500 m3/d), Lytton South AustraliaPort Stanvac Refinery (ExxonMobil), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d), Lonsdale Mothballed in 2003, closed in 2009
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Post by graynomad on Jul 15, 2016 18:43:13 GMT 10
So if I read that correctly it seems that we have seven working refineries...
Geelong Altona Altona Nth Bulwer Island Lytton Port Stanvac Kwinana
That's much better that I thought. Next questions...
Can they get the oil they need? We do produce oil here but is it the correct type? If we have seven refineries why do we always say we are dependent on Singapore? Can they not produce enough?
Yes I could research this but maybe somebody knows off the top of their head.
I think we need to know exactly how much of a potential threat fuel supplies are, IE are we really up shit creek if "they" shut down the route from Singapore, or will it just drive prices up.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Jul 15, 2016 19:23:29 GMT 10
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Post by graynomad on Jul 15, 2016 19:55:19 GMT 10
Geez, sorry I asked Thanks, I'd like to get more up to speed on this.
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tyburn
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Post by tyburn on Jul 17, 2016 20:11:43 GMT 10
Would the Chinese close that trade route if it meant their economy would collapse? I suspect China just wants ownership of the resources in that area. They'll probably set up oil rigs next, protected by warships and aircraft based on those man made islands The Chinese government is in the process of changing from concentrating on exports to domestic consumption. This was supposed to be well along the schedule by now, but the reality has been that the economic downturn has meant they are happy for which ever companies are doing well to keep doing so (factories employ huge amounts of staff and pay a lot of tax). On the other hand, the government has been pushing foreign companies a lot in recent years, demanding access to proprietary technology for local partners etc, coupled with the fact that the salaries have gone up so much, meaning that many big foreign companies have been packing up and moving on to places like Mexico, India and Cambodia. The government therefore has to keep pushing local companies to sell domestically, otherwise they're going to end up depending on all teh companies selling overseas for revenue. Regarding the oil rigs - the Chinese set one up off the swedish coast a couple of years ago, but removed after they realised they had gone too far, as the swedish then went to the US of all countries for proposed military cooperation. I don't know if they'll do that again any time soon,but I reckon they'll keep building and arming these islands as much as they can (one of my friend had a bunch of her social media posts removed by censors last week after reposting an article about the billions that hev gone into building just one island, which could have fixed the health system for several prrovinces).
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myrrph
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trying to figure out how to change my nick :P
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Post by myrrph on Jul 28, 2016 18:07:23 GMT 10
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