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Post by WolfDen on Feb 16, 2017 15:21:52 GMT 10
Yeah thats a real tough question. Especially difficult at a time of a SHTF. Also very easy to make a mistake at a time of stress and let the whole world know you have more then them.
"Everybody likes to become a good communist, when they have nothing"
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Morgo
Senior Member
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Post by Morgo on Feb 16, 2017 16:27:24 GMT 10
so how should we prepare for this, or better yet actually deal with it during a shtf event? One number and 2 letters - 9mm. May not be the most PC answer but lets face it, we knows its the real answer.
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Post by graynomad on Feb 16, 2017 21:20:40 GMT 10
I left one of the larger Australian prepper/survivalist forums some time ago because I was on the receiving end of a severe case of prepper envy.
The main perpetrator was a wannabe neo nazi, so I guess he wasn't right in the head anyway, but the venom got so bad I eventually decided to leave and join this much more productive forum. In the process this bloke lost access to a good hunting property and his main cohort lost his retreat. I thought after all this time I would be long forgotten, but yesterday I discovered he had been cutting and pasting posts of mine from this forum onto the other site, and continuing his verbal attacks against me. I've seen first hand how people can get very nasty when they think you have more than them, so how should we prepare for this, or better yet actually deal with it during a shtf event? The obvious answer would be to keep your preps a secret, but how do you do that whilst still providing for your family and relatives? I'm on both forums and 99.99% sure I know the parties you refer to, I didn't notice that but then again I'm not the most observant person some times I don't have family or relatives, least ways none close enough to even keep in touch with let alone share prepping stuff with. I am starting to get a network of people, so far nobody knows where I live (I think ) so at present this is not an issue...actually one person does but he has 10x the setup that I do. Whether family or fellow preppers this could become an issue at some point but if you want a group and some support I see no alternative, if possible hold something back to provide a surprise for a turncoat, not everyone needs to know everything.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Feb 16, 2017 22:19:30 GMT 10
Real envy, unlike say competitiveness which can be great for both parties, is a monstrous emotion that drives some very very nasty behavior. Why does a thief steal? Because he's envious he has less than the other person. Similarly it could be a motive for murder, genocide such as the Nazi's on the more successful Jewish people [due to their average IQ actually] or the likes of ISIS who are envious of what the West has. I wouldn't under estimate how the envious act and how they might justify their actions or behavior as it can very much be whipped up into a frenzy, as the communist/socialist most certainly do and has led to 100 million murders under it's effect.
In terms of protecting yourself from it in this context, indeed, secrecy would be your best plan. I would follow that with the careful filtering of people, even within preppers, it's hard to pull back mistakes with some areas of security. It's also important to understand that many of the envious are themselves not particularly good or have a desire to gain it for themselves, aka work for it. In terms of personality this can be shown by those who tend to take more than they're willing to give. As per that survivalist video from 1982, the question posed was would you be prepared to feed unprepared neighbors and relatives - "Yes because it's cheaper to feed them, than kill them". '.. not only cheaper but a great deal safer'.
So my position is somewhat diverse and would depend on circumstances absolutely. To start with, on the secrecy side, very few people know I have firearms, I know these people well and have filtered them for personal fairly well and have their trust and I have theirs. Fewer still know I have food stored and those who do are preppers, who they themselves have both of the first two. I also understand that I can't possibly feed everyone, though if I had to, I could feed about 8 people currently well and about 16 poorly, long enough to get enough food from crops and remain subsistant. Clearly I might chose instead to hide away for years if I had to and it was warranted, I'm fairly certain I could do that in some places I have in mind, for as long as the food lasted. [wouldn't produce to keep the signature as low as possible]. I've got seed, though not enough for 16 people worth of crops, though that's my current research project to set up kits just for that.. so that I might reduce this issue.
That is I have food and with them around, I have added security for the most part. It would be in a contract/agreement that would be 'very' clear as to how we proceed and I would avoid envy or issues by having that agreement among all that I might be doing that with, envy would be minimized by working together and sharing the pain equally as good leaders in history have shown and done. Despite the conflicting information, the British lost an extraordinary number of officers [and generals] because they lead from the front in WW1 for instance. Within that group, there's no real turning back in terms of trusting them, so it has to be very carefully done and I would imagine that working together, would indeed build the trust to fight off envy. Now I also understand that people outside of that group would very much have envy and potentially act violently towards us, particularly if desperate, though that's why there's more people. Again, secrecy is important here if at all possible. Now if I team that up with other people doing similarly, we have quite a resource, food and security, strength in numbers. Just how humans have acted for a very long time.
------------ A side note, since you seemed to have met this guy, I'd like to know if he's 6'8 as he has claimed, just for personal amusement reasons of course. Completely understand if you don't want to answer also.
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remnantprep
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People do not exist for the sake of governments!
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Post by remnantprep on Feb 16, 2017 22:32:30 GMT 10
This is a video hubby and I watched recently and was very informative! It is based on workplace issues but can be applied to our prepping. If you can learn to recognise a narcissist and learn how to deal with them this will be an advantage to you. Narcissists will feel no empathy towards others but do not like to be shamed in front of others, they must maintain their facade at all times. An envious narcissist will be very difficult to deal with!
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Post by ziggysdad on Feb 17, 2017 9:59:43 GMT 10
I've been on the receiving end of his attacks many times - great to know he is actually 5'9", not 6'4"+ and build like a brick shit house - makes it even more funny picturing him trolling all of us with so much hatred and bigotry.
When it comes to envy, a little bit of being nice can come back to bite you in the ass. Figure out who you want to help and help. If they've been a good neighbor and a little help can get them to a better place, great. If you aren't sure, trust your instincts and tell them to piss off.
Sadly, at the end of the day, I think Morgo will be right...those that have will need to defend what they have against those who don't. If you have enough, you can choose who to let in and share with you, but once they are in, they'll never leave.
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feralemma
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Post by feralemma on Feb 17, 2017 10:04:29 GMT 10
How many forums are there in Australia? I only know of one other and I think I know who you are talking about 😉
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Feb 17, 2017 11:26:35 GMT 10
AusSurvialist is pretty gone unfortunately. I did gleam a good deal of info from the older posts though.
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Post by graynomad on Feb 17, 2017 13:45:02 GMT 10
... Sadly, at the end of the day, I think Morgo will be right... Nah, you need 45, not 9mm
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Post by graynomad on Feb 17, 2017 13:56:27 GMT 10
Back to topic, how would one deal with envy in a situation where there is only a partial collapse, such as during a financial meltdown, with a still functioning (and perhaps increasingly draconian) government? Store a little extra to use as handouts to your immediate neighbours perhaps? I see that as the worst possible scenario, well maybe not the worst possible but the worst likely, more and more oppressive gov. Can you help neighbours? Probably but if you are 2 people and you take in 2 people you immediately halve your food. I can't afford to buy twice as much. OTOH you don't want enemies living 100 yards away. Maybe pretend that you don't have much and just give them a little, but they are bound to figure out that you aren't all that hungry at some point. You can hope that they leave to live with their rellos, but then maybe their rellos will move in with them, now you have 10 hungry people living 100 yards away. All I can think of is to have a few people in your group that live on your land, all tooled up and fooded up and (hopefully) quite capable of discouraging anyone not in the group. So then your neighbours hit the road and the first people they encounter are a band of 200 marauders, so they spill their guts about you to gain favour. There ain't no good answer IMO, except keep quite about what you have, but for close family that may not be possible.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Feb 17, 2017 18:36:26 GMT 10
From a more physiological or religious angel a major catastrophe I think people will go one of two ways, they either become more caring and supportive as they realise things have just got real and without working together it will get a lot more difficult. Others will turn totally crazy and go into self preservation mode and with no enforced legal/law, it gets dangerous.
Sure there are the substance addicted crowd who will loose all control and go nuts till they break their addiction, that is a special category..
If people display domineering and need to be in control attitude when things are still good - perhaps best to avoid them like the plague. These days people tend to be more open and express themselves more freely esp if you can have access to their personal social media it is somewhat easier to weed them out.
During SHTF one has to keep very tight control on people movement - it wont be long before fuel is used up and people are on foot - if early on you get them out of the area - most likely they are not returning, if not in your area it would take considerable effort to get to you if you are in a remote place. In the cites is where things get more dynamic.
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