token
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Post by token on Apr 11, 2017 7:10:25 GMT 10
... Barter, skills, being as self sufficient as possible and pm's whilst looking like a real person and interacting with your digital numbers carefully will be the only way imo. I've been thinking a lot about barter. Lately I've done a lot of work for various neighbours, sometimes just to lend a hand, but often in return for $, and the reason that I get $ instead of goods or services is that I really don't need anything they have or that they can do. I guess that puts me in a good position now, but I need to try and project all our skills into a post-apocalypse or cashless world and see if that would hold true, or would I find myself being the one needing to trade with nothing to offer. I already do just about everything electronically so I don't see going cashless affecting me that much, yes I'd lose a few jobs that give me pocket money but TBH I'd rather work on my own projects anyway. For me i consider my 'needs' to continue living. Its water, food, shelter, warmth at the end of the day. Up from that it might be oil, electricity, machinery, fuel, ammo. The thing about barter is that if there was trouble and cash went, pm's could replace if theres enough going round, or jewelery or odds and ends,clothing, fire lighters, fuel, oil, chainsaw chains, welding stuff, ammo, alcohol, but even if you didnt need that stuff, you might still take it as others do, so trade or authority might come into play for survival. ie: you have no need for a certain ammo, but someone does, so you tell them you need x amount of rabbits or meat of sort for trade. Accepting then stuff in barter that you dont need might benefit. Just thoughts |
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Post by Peter on Apr 11, 2017 8:45:46 GMT 10
Where does electronic cash fit in here? Are there blackmarket electronic currencies hidden from taxation or govt scrutiny like bitcoin? For anything to be truly hidden it'd need to be on the dark web. AFAIK that will need some fairly serious tech skills to stay hidden, and a seriously limited number of people with whom to trade. Admittedly I know only the tiniest bit about this. |
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token
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Post by token on Apr 11, 2017 16:01:17 GMT 10
Where does electronic cash fit in here? Are there blackmarket electronic currencies hidden from taxation or govt scrutiny like bitcoin? Theres a heap of crypto's being added, and all make a big boast, crims still use bitcoin and others as far as i know without losing privacy, cant recall the last thing i looked at on that, but even after the silkroad scandal. Theres a fella who is boasting anonymity in his crypto, cant recall it id have to chase it up again, but like Peter, ive looked into this a bit but still need to really look harder tbh. If anyone else knows about this stuff, id be very interested to give it a go, just to diversify wisely and continue to make my protest to Gov mass surveillance and the loss of human rights of privacy. |
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Post by graynomad on Apr 11, 2017 20:41:35 GMT 10
I've been thinking a lot about barter. Lately I've done a lot of work for various neighbours, sometimes just to lend a hand, but often in return for $, and the reason that I get $ instead of goods or services is that I really don't need anything they have or that they can do. I guess that puts me in a good position now, but I need to try and project all our skills into a post-apocalypse or cashless world and see if that would hold true, or would I find myself being the one needing to trade with nothing to offer. I already do just about everything electronically so I don't see going cashless affecting me that much, yes I'd lose a few jobs that give me pocket money but TBH I'd rather work on my own projects anyway. For me i consider my 'needs' to continue living. Its water, food, shelter, warmth at the end of the day. Up from that it might be oil, electricity, machinery, fuel, ammo. The thing about barter is that if there was trouble and cash went, pm's could replace if theres enough going round, or jewelery or odds and ends,clothing, fire lighters, fuel, oil, chainsaw chains, welding stuff, ammo, alcohol, but even if you didnt need that stuff, you might still take it as others do, so trade or authority might come into play for survival. ie: you have no need for a certain ammo, but someone does, so you tell them you need x amount of rabbits or meat of sort for trade. Accepting then stuff in barter that you dont need might benefit. Just thoughts Yeah good point Token, I don't have to have a direct use for an item as long as I can see that future barterers would. |
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token
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Post by token on Apr 11, 2017 20:51:33 GMT 10
For me i consider my 'needs' to continue living. Its water, food, shelter, warmth at the end of the day. Up from that it might be oil, electricity, machinery, fuel, ammo. The thing about barter is that if there was trouble and cash went, pm's could replace if theres enough going round, or jewelery or odds and ends,clothing, fire lighters, fuel, oil, chainsaw chains, welding stuff, ammo, alcohol, but even if you didnt need that stuff, you might still take it as others do, so trade or authority might come into play for survival. ie: you have no need for a certain ammo, but someone does, so you tell them you need x amount of rabbits or meat of sort for trade. Accepting then stuff in barter that you dont need might benefit. Just thoughts Yeah good point Token, I don't have to have a direct use for an item as long as I can see that future barterers would. You might end up becoming the local 'store' just like in the old days when folk travelled into town miles on horse and cart to get supplies of salt, flour, bullets etc. No doubt its a pain in the butt having to then move something that isnt directly beneficial to you, and, it might cause you to have to increase security measures as well, but, could work depending on who. The thing is, i purchase a number of things from locals from honey to meat animals to soap to some veggies or fruits and other things such as steel, and other building materials as well as professional labor, machine work now. This is the system i prefer to see established as it suits me relationally now with the folk i do business with. Its more of a friendship that develops and i feel im helping and caring for those peoples families and plans as they are doing to mine. This is what id prefer to support to be honest. |
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Post by graynomad on Apr 12, 2017 12:49:23 GMT 10
Yeah good point Token, I don't have to have a direct use for an item as long as I can see that future barterers would. You might end up becoming the local 'store' just like in the old days when folk travelled into town miles on horse and cart to get supplies of salt, flour, bullets etc. No doubt its a pain in the butt having to then move something that isnt directly beneficial to you, and, it might cause you to have to increase security measures as well, but, could work depending on who. The thing is, i purchase a number of things from locals from honey to meat animals to soap to some veggies or fruits and other things such as steel, and other building materials as well as professional labor, machine work now. This is the system i prefer to see established as it suits me relationally now with the folk i do business with. Its more of a friendship that develops and i feel im helping and caring for those peoples families and plans as they are doing to mine. This is what id prefer to support to be honest. I would make a crap trader, can't sell anything. But one of my neighbours would be great at that, so maybe the "Gin Gin redoubt" will become a trading hub.  BTW, on a post somewhere that I can't find you said you might be able to come up here again. Be great if you can, I'm happy to show you my place this time and we can hopefully visit DDP again. |
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token
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Post by token on Apr 12, 2017 18:57:09 GMT 10
You might end up becoming the local 'store' just like in the old days when folk travelled into town miles on horse and cart to get supplies of salt, flour, bullets etc. No doubt its a pain in the butt having to then move something that isnt directly beneficial to you, and, it might cause you to have to increase security measures as well, but, could work depending on who. The thing is, i purchase a number of things from locals from honey to meat animals to soap to some veggies or fruits and other things such as steel, and other building materials as well as professional labor, machine work now. This is the system i prefer to see established as it suits me relationally now with the folk i do business with. Its more of a friendship that develops and i feel im helping and caring for those peoples families and plans as they are doing to mine. This is what id prefer to support to be honest. I would make a crap trader, can't sell anything. But one of my neighbours would be great at that, sp maybe the "Gin Gin redoubt" will become a trading hub. BTW, on a post somewhere that I can't find you said you might be able to come up here again. Be great if you can, I'm happy to show you my place this time and we can hopefully visit DDP again. Id love to mate, ill have to see if i can get a break in the schedule. I should travel north this year if i can, and i can just jump on the light airplane up your way again like we did last time. It would be great to catch up, enjoyed it thoroughly. Id like to see if i could take you and dd and your ladies out to dinner in bundy if you were up for the 2 hour trek into town too? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 9:48:39 GMT 10
Hi, I posted a while back that, you cannot eat Gold or Silver so questioned the place for it in prepping. I have been rethinking that comment and feel that Gold will always hold some value even when all else goes turns to crap. If governments and currencies fall gold will be the default currency making it a worthy prep. I'm not so sure about silver, since its value was propped up by its industrial demand, and so should industry have a down turn so might the value of silver.
thanks for the topic.
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token
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Post by token on Apr 13, 2017 21:11:36 GMT 10
Hi, I posted a while back that, you cannot eat Gold or Silver so questioned the place for it in prepping. I have been rethinking that comment and feel that Gold will always hold some value even when all else goes turns to crap. If governments and currencies fall gold will be the default currency making it a worthy prep. I'm not so sure about silver, since its value was propped up by its industrial demand, and so should industry have a down turn so might the value of silver. thanks for the topic. Gold is pretty and has an industrial value also, it is used in electronics also, and it will always be more valuable than silver regardless imo. But silver has huge uses more and more all the time and not just electronics. It have heard it said, Gold is for the rich, silver for the common man and bartering for the poor, but i would prefer having all 3 options at my disposal. With the continual push for cashless, as well as a possible crash of fiat currency, its a great way to save money as well as insure against inflation, and the possibility of fiscal crashes. Imo, you can trust well over 5000 years of pm currency history. It was there before funny money, it is now, and will be afterwards. Consider Greece and Spain and others from their financial crashes, your lucky if you have gold and silver if you live there. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 21:41:28 GMT 10
Hi, I fail to understand silver, it is more plentiful than Gold as far as I know, and it was in big demand when we used to take pictures on film, the film industry was the major industrial use for silver...and that has gone so I don't know what dives its price any more, surely it is more than the fact people like the look of it.
Maybe I'm biased against silver, from working in the electrical industry. You see when I was an electrician we had a fault that used a few expensive fuses intermittently. We use to throw the fuses in the bin but noticed people scrounging the fuses out if the bin....as far as I was concerned they were blown and of no value, until we figured out people were getting the silver foil out of them....so we decided to collect all our blown fuses ourselves and maybe pay for Christmas drinks with the proceeds. So through the year all the fuses went into a collection bin and the idea became very popular, so popular I'm not sure all the fuses getting put in the bin were actually blown! So with Christmas a week or so away we set out to get the silver out of these fuses and melt it down for scrap to have our Christmas event.....but after nearly a days work and hundreds of fuses we ended up with just enough silver to cover the bottom of a breakfast bowl....I estimate about three or four dollars worth! Give me Gold over silver any time!
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Apr 13, 2017 22:04:54 GMT 10
Hi, I fail to understand silver, it is more plentiful than Gold as far as I know, and it was in big demand when we used to take pictures on film, the film industry was the major industrial use for silver...and that has gone so I don't know what dives its price any more, surely it is more than the fact people like the look of it. Maybe I'm biased against silver, from working in the electrical industry. You see when I was an electrician we had a fault that used a few expensive fuses intermittently. We use to throw the fuses in the bin but noticed people scrounging the fuses out if the bin....as far as I was concerned they were blown and of no value, until we figured out people were getting the silver foil out of them....so we decided to collect all our blown fuses ourselves and maybe pay for Christmas drinks with the proceeds. So through the year all the fuses went into a collection bin and the idea became very popular, so popular I'm not sure all the fuses getting put in the bin were actually blown! So with Christmas a week or so away we set out to get the silver out of these fuses and melt it down for scrap to have our Christmas event.....but after nearly a days work and hundreds of fuses we ended up with just enough silver to cover the bottom of a breakfast bowl....I estimate about three or four dollars worth! Give me Gold over silver any time! I see silver as small change when you want to make small exchanges! I would not want to pull out my gold for something small! |
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token
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Post by token on Apr 13, 2017 22:06:35 GMT 10
Hi, I fail to understand silver, it is more plentiful than Gold as far as I know, and it was in big demand when we used to take pictures on film, the film industry was the major industrial use for silver...and that has gone so I don't know what dives its price any more, surely it is more than the fact people like the look of it. Maybe I'm biased against silver, from working in the electrical industry. You see when I was an electrician we had a fault that used a few expensive fuses intermittently. We use to throw the fuses in the bin but noticed people scrounging the fuses out if the bin....as far as I was concerned they were blown and of no value, until we figured out people were getting the silver foil out of them....so we decided to collect all our blown fuses ourselves and maybe pay for Christmas drinks with the proceeds. So through the year all the fuses went into a collection bin and the idea became very popular, so popular I'm not sure all the fuses getting put in the bin were actually blown! So with Christmas a week or so away we set out to get the silver out of these fuses and melt it down for scrap to have our Christmas event.....but after nearly a days work and hundreds of fuses we ended up with just enough silver to cover the bottom of a breakfast bowl....I estimate about three or four dollars worth! Give me Gold over silver any time! Yes i agree trying to reclaim silver from electronics might be tedious, time consuming and possibly a waste of ones time, but just think about how many fuses are made, not just your company...many. Thus, purchasing silver bullion might put you in good stead in future as demand pushes up price. Silver is not only used in electronic applications however, its used for a tonne of medical applications as well, also water filtration, which is huge. So there is a continual market for such a metal which makes it profitable. With that said, silver has thousands of years of history as currency that is proven. I like both, i prefer gold, however silver is obtainable and within reach for many people whereas gold is much more expensive. |
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Apr 13, 2017 23:56:18 GMT 10
I don't understand why nobody is talking about copper, platinum or lithium? I think I'd prefer copper for household goods and hand made electrickery
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Apr 14, 2017 1:13:00 GMT 10
I don't understand why nobody is talking about copper, platinum or lithium? I think I'd prefer copper for household goods and hand made electrickery
It depends on what you mean by copper... copper pipe would be useful, copper wire maybe. It's far too heavy by $$$ value to be a precious tradeable metal.
Platinum and palladium do not have the history behind them and they're still considered speculators metals. Good for diversifying but not something one would jump into unless they already had good stores of gold/silver.
Lithium has no retail market and thus lacks liquidity.
A little bit of Google searching will reveal there's actually more Gold above ground than silver. Silver being cheaper is based on historical factors & peoples perceptions not rarity.
Gold and silver have an existing mainstream market. If you have an ounce of gold or bar of silver you can turn that into cash very quickly in most major cities in the world.
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Post by doomsdayprepper4570 on Apr 19, 2017 5:55:37 GMT 10
Cashless is a wish and I doubt will happen in my lifetime.
I do not have a smart phone nor will I ever buy one again as I find them to be annoying.
Plus no coverage over much of the area where we live as well.
I withdrew $10 K ($10,000) from the nab in bundaberg a few weeks ago and the teller there said that most of the rural employers paid their workers with cash
and larger cash withdrawls were common!
We large discounts on goods and services for cash and it allows us to live better than if we ran a cheque account all the time or online banking.
Try buying goods from farmers markets, farmers road stalls and the like with your paywave card!
Or just be like a lot of the travelling greynomads (no offence Rob) and take the produce and not pay the farmer!
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