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Post by spinifex on Jan 25, 2019 19:37:24 GMT 10
Dont suppose you have a pic of the disaster relief MRE...I too have some small experience in both civil relief packages and military packages so I always like to do a comparison...e.g. French ratpacks supplied in East Timor held wine satchets (yip) and bread rolls (irradiated, yip! Stay fed and your nuts drop off! Lol) Michelin Star rations. Awesome. I like the French approach to disaster and privation. Surprised they forgot the Goose Liver Pate.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Feb 25, 2019 17:49:26 GMT 10
I'm working on 24 hour ration packs for each of our family - Adult, Adult gluten-free, kidsize
Made up of stuff you can get at Coles.
Version 1 was two 200g chocolate blocks- 2200 calories in 400g (grin)
In all seriousness though the first edition of the non-Gluten Free adult one included a 220g half size tin of baked beans and one of those picked rice salads, and added up to 4000cal and 1500g, it's been modified down to about 3400cal and 1100g by taking the beans and pickled salad out. Has 40g fibre in it too - fruit puree and straps, vitawheats, breakky bikkies and a low sugar muesli bar. Taking out the beans meant less sodium too ... still has 7.7g sodium though! Pictures and full list will have to wait til I'm on my laptop tomorrow.
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Post by Joey on Feb 25, 2019 21:08:41 GMT 10
Do they still make baked beans in the single use packets like the "masterfoods finishing sauce"? that could save a little weight/bulk on tinned baked beans
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Feb 26, 2019 11:47:09 GMT 10
This is the Adult 24 hour ration that we put together - my 8yo helped. It was something interesting to do on the weekend. Weight is just over 1kg Contents of ration pack: Breakfast: Oats, 90g fruit puree, two breakfast bars Lunch: 130g Vitawheats, 95g tuna, muesli bar, salami stick, 2x vegemite (9.6g each), 2xNutella (15g each) Dinner: 85g Mi Goreng noodles, 125g creamed corn, 30g cup-a-soup mix, 125g chocolate pudding Snacks and Sundry: 30g Sesame Snaps, Dried Noodles, 50g Dark Chocolate, 2x5g Fruit Leather straps, protein bar (10g protein!), 2x Hot chocolate, 2x Hydralite, 1xTea, 40g Salted Cashews, Serviettes It would make sense to swap out hot chocolate for coffee, personal preference. It would have been better to have smaller packs of hardtack - i didn't find what i was looking for, the vitawheats are a rough approximation. Taken out of the pack: 220g baked beans, 195g picked rice and fish salad, 50g beef jerky. Not needed for energy, but added about 800mg of salt each - and it already has more than 7700mg all up!!
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Feb 26, 2019 11:54:04 GMT 10
Supermarket-sourced Low Gluten 24 Hour Ration pack My SO isn't Coeliac but he is gluten intolerant (among other things), and doesn't eat wheat. If you were Coeliac you would need to work harder to find certified gluten-free products; some of these are, some just don't contain any added gluten but are made in factories that also make biscuits, bread etc. Not including wheat was a challenge, because wholegrains dry well, last well, are filling, and are a good source of energy and fibre. This has a pouch of fish and beans that I found at Coles - no idea what they taste like, we'll give these packs a test run in a few weeks ... Haven't worked out the stats on this one yet but it's probably got more carbs than it needs, and the pumpkin soup will be the first to go. Yummy, but heavy...
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 26, 2019 12:42:55 GMT 10
You can buy dehydrated beef mince for those packs. Lightweight, a bit pricey but they reconstitute in water quite well. Mrs made a nice casserole out of a pack last trip to the retreat.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Feb 26, 2019 19:13:39 GMT 10
Can you eat dehydrated beef straight out of the packet or just rehydrate with some water and eat it?
That was one of the constraints we were working with - we needed to be able to eat most of the stuff straight if necessary or just with added hot/cold water
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Post by spinifex on Feb 26, 2019 19:27:19 GMT 10
I don't know if they are still around, but back in the 80's we used to buy these heavy duty, sealed foil trays (20cmX10cmX4cm approx) with quite decent curry in them. Had everything including chunky meat and veg. They had decent flavour and consistency, and we would heat them just by dropping them on the embers of a very small fire. Wish I could remember the brand.
A tin of campbells pea and ham soup concentrate goes a long way as a meal (for it weight) too. Great in winter but does require a container to cook in.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 26, 2019 19:38:40 GMT 10
I don't think you could eat them without adding water.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Feb 27, 2019 15:38:04 GMT 10
Does anyone have any other ideas for cheap, lasting but not too heavy BOB food? The ratpack above worked out to about $40 for 24 hours I think - Would it be possible to manage swaps to get it under $20 but still have it interesting, edible cold, and reasonably nutritious... ?
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 27, 2019 16:37:49 GMT 10
Make friends with someone in the army
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Feb 27, 2019 16:50:57 GMT 10
Does anyone have any other ideas for cheap, lasting but not too heavy BOB food? The ratpack above worked out to about $40 for 24 hours I think - Would it be possible to manage swaps to get it under $20 but still have it interesting, edible cold, and reasonably nutritious... ? Budget tinned goods? Solves your 'add water' problems...but adds to your weight problem...seems small tinned goods no longer exist in the world of 'pay for 3 and get 2! While stocks last!' Lol...
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Post by spinifex on Feb 27, 2019 18:35:56 GMT 10
Does anyone have any other ideas for cheap, lasting but not too heavy BOB food? The ratpack above worked out to about $40 for 24 hours I think - Would it be possible to manage swaps to get it under $20 but still have it interesting, edible cold, and reasonably nutritious... ? Tubes of condensed milk are pretty good to have around. They are high energy and highly digestable. dried fruit such as apricot, mango, paw=paw, apple, raisin and date are worth thinking about. Salted Sun dried tomatoes? Asian dried fish or dried shrimp? Puffed chickpeas?
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Post by SA Hunter on Feb 27, 2019 19:06:44 GMT 10
This week Coles has packs of John West Tuna, Beans, etc for $2.00 Each pack is 220g. VERY tasty! I agree with condensed milk - all Aus Rat Packs have them - great for a forced march. Pkt instant noodles? Cereal sections have Weetbix minis & berries - about $3.00. Light, nutricious & very tasty. Small pkt soft cheese & biscuits - 1 per pky. Home brand are pretty good. Small tin baked beans/ Also, I see Edgell sell 4 x mini tins of corn, 4 bean mix, black beans, and kidney beans. They would be handy to have for the veggie input, and cheap too when on special. Also, 95g tins tuna & salmon, usually $1 ea when on special.
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Post by spinifex on Feb 28, 2019 14:42:26 GMT 10
Does anyone have any other ideas for cheap, lasting but not too heavy BOB food? The ratpack above worked out to about $40 for 24 hours I think - Would it be possible to manage swaps to get it under $20 but still have it interesting, edible cold, and reasonably nutritious... ? What kind of climate are you in? That would influence what kind of food you will need or prefer.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Mar 2, 2019 8:25:57 GMT 10
What kind of climate are you in? That would influence what kind of food you will need or prefer. Yes... To me that makes a very big difference in what to have in the pack and what will be locally available to use. XXX Does anyone have any other ideas for cheap, lasting but not too heavy BOB food? The ratpack above worked out to about $40 for 24 hours I think - Would it be possible to manage swaps to get it under $20 but still have it interesting, edible cold, and reasonably nutritious... ? Multiple issue thing here to me... First I'm not going to be using this pack for "on foot" use. So weight etc doesn't count to me. Yes.. I do want all the contents to be consumable out of the package. No cooking, heating required. I will keep a packet of something in an inside coat pocket until it is body temp before consumption. Never gave cost much of a thought. Partly because for instance, if a can of complete meal soup is on sale, but is hard to get down, not a good buy to my thinking. Your taste my vary. XXX Trying to copy, paste the picture in Twooldblueshoes post #301 above, but can't do it. I have made a number of day rations similar to take with a thermos of tea, 6 liter bottle of water, on the tractor to the bush working fire wood for the full day. Have worked well. (Good job Blueshoes, thumbs up)
To me all items MUST, MUST, be local store available as to have to special order things defeats the point of the effort in my thinking. My 5 cents of opinion.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Mar 2, 2019 8:46:36 GMT 10
Does anyone have any other ideas for cheap, lasting but not too heavy BOB food? The ratpack above worked out to about $40 for 24 hours I think - Would it be possible to manage swaps to get it under $20 but still have it interesting, edible cold, and reasonably nutritious... ? Awesome effort with the rat packs mate! However they look too complex, too much packaging, too expensive, too heavy! You can get away from these constraints by thinking less in terms of conventional eating patterns and more on eating for Survival / Escape & Evasion it can be simple, cost effective, nutritious and remain interesting / tasty for less tolerant individuals.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Mar 3, 2019 8:09:37 GMT 10
Sorry, should've put my money where my mouth is!
Reading numerous, eye-witness accounts, Boer Commando during the Boer War survived on Rusks, Maize Meal, Coffee and Biltong! All lightweight Ration components, they also sometimes hunted game or acquired beef cattle to supplement. In contrast the Commonwealth Troops were loaded down with heavy tin cans, beef on the hoof, field kitchens and a complex, inefficient rationing system that still left many troopers constantly starving and dehydrated for days or weeks on end.
During the Pacific War the US Army created a true Special Forces unit called the “Alamo Scouts” their missions of four and five day (sometimes longer) duration were almost exclusively reconnaissance tasks in the South West Pacific. Inserted by submarine, Catalina or more frequently by PT Boat these teams travelled amazingly light for the length of time they spent in the bush. Frequent reference is made to the simple “fruit & nut mix” they carried almost exclusively in lieu of conventional rations. The modern version of this fruit & nut mix is now known widely as “SCROGGIN”, “GORP” and “Trail Mix” some version of which is used by hikers and climbers the World over!
We can read and learn from many soldier accounts of the universal practice of “Field Stripping” conventional Ration Packs to get rid of all the “useless sh*t”! Saves weight, saves bulk, creates simplicity within their personal fighting system but wastes a lot of money!
Please remember Defence Organisations everywhere including both Public and Private funded regard pre-packaged field rations to be the most expensive, most inefficient way to feed their people. This is why in my opinion it is not a good idea to create a model styled completely on these ration types.
The modern issue US “First Strike” Ration was developed to reduce the weight, complexity, cost, shelf-life issues and packaging found in conventional ration models. The “First Strike” is the type of ration I would suggest emulating if you are going to build this stuff! The UK among others have also recently started to introduce similar ration types.
What if you were to limit your Ration Pack design to say (random) six items, what would you select? How would you package it?
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Mar 5, 2019 14:54:40 GMT 10
We can read and learn from many soldier accounts of the universal practice of “Field Stripping” conventional Ration Packs to get rid of all the “useless sh*t”! Saves weight, saves bulk, creates simplicity within their personal fighting system but wastes a lot of money!
>>>>>> Of course... The right tool for the job. Even with packaged or homemade day rations, one size does NOT fit all. To me, the key in a homemade, better word may be "home assembled" but I will use the term homemade, is that it is just that. Homemade with things local available, that fit the needs at this particular location.
A tropical, desert, jungle or the far north bush location will all have different needs to meet with contents. My 5 cents of opinion.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Mar 5, 2019 19:34:36 GMT 10
... We can read and learn from many soldier accounts of the universal practice of “Field Stripping” conventional Ration Packs to get rid of all the “useless sh*t”! Saves weight, saves bulk, creates simplicity within their personal fighting system but wastes a lot of money! Please remember Defence Organisations everywhere including both Public and Private funded regard pre-packaged field rations to be the most expensive, most inefficient way to feed their people. This is why in my opinion it is not a good idea to create a model styled completely on these ration types. The modern issue US “First Strike” Ration was developed to reduce the weight, complexity, cost, shelf-life issues and packaging found in conventional ration models. The “First Strike” is the type of ration I would suggest emulating if you are going to build this stuff! The UK among others have also recently started to introduce similar ration types. What if you were to limit your Ration Pack design to say (random) six items, what would you select? How would you package it? I've been off googling 'First Strike' Rations... good tip. The ones we have are still pretty bloated (especially the kids ones!!) - i got my kid to field strip hers yesterday so it's a little smaller now but we'll go and field test them in a week or so and that should help weed them out a bit. To answer the question about climate: we're in Gippsland in the middle of all the fires but weren't affected directly. It rains 9 months of the year but we aren't up a mountain so it doesn't freeze. Out of curiousity, how would you change a ratpack for heat vs cold weather? Do you need less energy in hot weather or something?
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