bce1
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Post by bce1 on Jan 19, 2020 19:15:51 GMT 10
Am currently in Japan on a work trip. Weekend in Hiroshima. Went to the peace park and the Atomic museum. Really quite sobering and incredibly sad when you realise the impact on civilians, kids in particular. All bets are off in a war and the Imperial army was a beast, but still….
By the point I finish walking through the displays I am thinking……. About shelter and protection from blast and radiation, fallout is a problem but blast and a fire storm are imminent risk, how you need to brush up on austere burns treatment and protection from flash and thermal wave is imperative, how analgesia and protection from infection is really important, how you need to have stored large amounts of dressings, even though a remote risk how I need to educate the kids around initial actions if a bomb goes off. And once again never trust the government.
The guy Im travelling with just says….. well that was depressing, we would all be fooked and die…..
And that is the difference between them and us!
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jan 19, 2020 20:57:49 GMT 10
Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. Duke of Wellington. It doesn't matter what the weapons are, the end result sucks whether you win or lose.
A lot of people are in for a big surprise if the nukes do start going off. They will be surprised to find themselves still alive.
But if they don't know what to do they won't be alive for long. The fallout, which is usually the main focus, is bad but the blast and flash will injure and kill many well before fallout starts taking its toll.
From a medical point of view it might be best to consider a nuke as a really big conventional bomb which has a few extra features. Make sure you can treat injuries from conventional bombs and then add the ability to also handle flash and radiation.
Fallout isn't the massive bogeyman that it is portrayed to be. Humans can take a large amount of radiation and survive. But only externally. Thick clothing blocks a lot of radiation. But if you inhale or ingest radioactive material you massively increase its lethality. Don't breathe fallout. Single most important rule.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Jan 20, 2020 16:52:22 GMT 10
Most modern Nuclear bombs are a bit smaller and more tactical. Whole cities wiped out maybe not.
EMP nukes that take out power grid and large electronics and navigation, I fell 100% will be something that we will have to deal with in the near future.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Jan 20, 2020 17:57:05 GMT 10
I don't know how or why, but I have a hunch I will see fallout in my lifetime. Might be 25 years away... but yeah it was this forum that taught me not to be so fatalist and that what you do can make a huge difference to whether you survive and to how much it hurts. Good post bce1 |
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 20, 2020 18:35:41 GMT 10
What bothers me is the possibility of needing to provide wound care for my group and having nowhere near enough consumerables. I imagine you would go through them fairly quickly. I've got enough to last until we could access the hospital system, but what if that system was overwhelmed or collapsed?
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Post by spinifex on Jan 20, 2020 18:37:20 GMT 10
Get a copy of Black Rain. Based on Survivors diaries from Hiroshima. Worth a read.
After a nuke blast a major long term problem is plants taking up radioactive fallout particles for something like 300 years after the event. Some of the common radioactive isotopes imitate plant nutrients and end up being concentrated in fruits etc. Eat those fruits and the radioactive stuff ends up inside the body. Which, as kelabar points out, is really bad. Leaves on the trees at chernobyl have much higher radioactivity than the ground. Mushrooms are even worse.
Animals that eat the radioactive fruit or mushrooms are also off the menu.
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Jan 20, 2020 18:40:46 GMT 10
What bothers me is the possibility of needing to provide wound care for my group and having nowhere near enough consumerables. I imagine you would go through them fairly quickly. I've got enough to last until we could access the hospital system, but what if that system was overwhelmed or collapsed? its amazing how many dressings u go thru for one wound We had several injuries in the 2019 Vic bushfires and first aid supplies were essential and u couldn’t get out due to road closures First aid supplies are like ammo- can never have enough😜😜😜 |
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 20, 2020 18:46:47 GMT 10
What bothers me is the possibility of needing to provide wound care for my group and having nowhere near enough consumerables. I imagine you would go through them fairly quickly. I've got enough to last until we could access the hospital system, but what if that system was overwhelmed or collapsed? its amazing how many dressings u go thru for one wound We had several injuries in the 2019 Vic bushfires and first aid supplies were essential and u couldn’t get out due to road closures First aid supplies are like ammo- can never have enough😜😜😜 Any advice on what type of dressings, how many, and where is best to buy? 2020 is my year of working on my med preps, starting with a TCCC course in a few weeks. Keen to bulk up my stock of dressings and anything else you think necessary. |
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bushdoc2
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Post by bushdoc2 on Jan 20, 2020 20:31:21 GMT 10
What bothers me is the possibility of needing to provide wound care for my group and having nowhere near enough consumerables. I imagine you would go through them fairly quickly. I've got enough to last until we could access the hospital system, but what if that system was overwhelmed or collapsed? Good chance that the local hospital would be overwhelmed. "Just in time" inventory, even when it does work, is a poor substitute for a good supply. In smaller places, I kept a personal stash of bandages and antibiotics, etc. as the hospital had limited supply of only the approved stuff. Can you rewash your bandages? Know how?
Can you improvise? Hint: same as cleaning flannel: bedsheets and decent scissors. (Non-flannel, as you want lint-free).
Professionals: I recommend the EMSB course. Amateurs, go to the EMSB website and have a gander at the resources.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Jan 20, 2020 21:59:06 GMT 10
In the bad old days they reused bandages, after boiling in water, it is like reusable nappies that my kids grew up on. Antiseptic and pain killers is an item to store. My wife once got stopped at a supermarket after buying 20pack of painkillers while they were on special was accused of dealing or overdosing. They are cheap items.
Unless you are near a target, it is unlikely that you get a nuke in your neighbourhood. They are expensive and delivery systems are expensive. Some small tactical nukes can fit in a briefcase and damage a few buildings. If you live ext to a military base or airport, you might have some concern. Aus is very isolated and sparse, not many strategic targets.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jan 21, 2020 7:01:38 GMT 10
its amazing how many dressings u go thru for one wound We had several injuries in the 2019 Vic bushfires and first aid supplies were essential and u couldn’t get out due to road closures First aid supplies are like ammo- can never have enough😜😜😜 Any advice on what type of dressings, how many, and where is best to buy? 2020 is my year of working on my med preps, starting with a TCCC course in a few weeks. Keen to bulk up my stock of dressings and anything else you think necessary. One casualty in a Remote or Austere setting could burn up everything you have in multiple categories in a week! Improvisation is essential and saves lots of money! Clean cotton bed sheets, rolls of plastic wrap, vet wrap, industrial grade disposable gloves in boxes of hundreds etc etc. bce1 and bushdoc will hopefully comment here. Everyone should also have this:- docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/3b311a_6ef34fffc73447ce9a4d25a4d441b662.pdf"Lack of Supply and the Skill of Improvisation: The key tenant of austere medicine is improvisation. A surprising amount of medical equipment and supplies can be improvised. This is also discussed at length in the Primitive Medicine chapter. The best reference regarding this is: "Improvised Medicine: Providing Care in Extreme Environments" by Ken Iserson’ " (quote from page 45) |
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Jan 22, 2020 9:52:41 GMT 10
I find it interesting with threads such as this that people focus on the nuke and its effects and never ask one fundamental question
Is this the end of the global conflict or just the start of the next phase of a extremely brutal battle for global dominance?
See the key problem is once the genie is out of the bottle and WMD free for all has started it wont just be nukes it will be all the toys come out to play and there will be no fantasy "limited' strategic strike with a low yield tactical nuclear weapon sure it might start like that a warning shot of sorts but it wont end there
Now due to the outcome of WW2 we are programed to think that nukes end wars but its highly probable that if there is still some form of command structure after an all out nuclear conflict which still has functional assets then the new war for safer locations begins.
So nations or locations that didn't suffer from a direct hit could easily find themselves facing a flood or refuges that have nothing left to lose or worse still being invaded by still functional military force that has taken advantage of the ensuring chaos of the total breakdown of international norms
what happens to the population that lives there already? well lets just say its never a good outcome for those guys
a couple of barrels of mustard gas dropped from a heli will soon suck the will to fight from a small town especially if you have no ability to retaliate
so my point is have your skills and kit up to scratch but also keep in mind you may be worse off if you don't get hit at all
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jan 22, 2020 10:40:22 GMT 10
there will be no fantasy "limited' strategic strike with a low yield tactical nuclear weapon sure it might start like that a warning shot of sorts but it wont end there invaded by still functional military force that has taken advantage of the ensuring chaos of the total breakdown of international norms Hit the nail on the head.
Nuke preparations took a much higher priority for me when I read one of James Dakin's posts. He points out that if a country gets nuked, that country HAS to nuke EVERYONE else.
There isn't really a choice. Once a country gets nuked its capabilities are drastically reduced; civilian population is reduced, military forces are heavily degraded, industrial output is slashed, food production takes a hit. To ensure their survival they have to hit any country that can nuke them. They also have to nuke any country which can then mount military operations against them. Why? Because their arse is hanging out and while they are trying to fix their country the last thing they need is more nuke strikes or an invasion. "But if they nuke other nuclear-capable countries then they will get even more nuke strikes from counter-attacks" you say. Yep. Too true. But they are already screwed. Screwing every other country brings it down to a more level playing field. It isn't a good option but it beats the hell out of hoping some other country doesn't take advantage of them.
Another point is that cities are legitimate targets for nukes. I know you urban dwellers don't like to think it but wiping out a couple of million people and causing massive damage to infrastructure isn't good for a countries ability to wage war. Enemies like doing that. Forget the pipe dream that you won't get hit in a city.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 22, 2020 10:49:44 GMT 10
I'll be safe in my isolated retreat, looking for 14yo girls who can't change an AK mag but can take down a Chinese attack helicopter with an RPG
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Jan 22, 2020 16:53:30 GMT 10
its amazing how many dressings u go thru for one wound We had several injuries in the 2019 Vic bushfires and first aid supplies were essential and u couldn’t get out due to road closures First aid supplies are like ammo- can never have enough😜😜😜 Any advice on what type of dressings, how many, and where is best to buy? 2020 is my year of working on my med preps, starting with a TCCC course in a few weeks. Keen to bulk up my stock of dressings and anything else you think necessary. I grab anything I can-clean linen will do but I get any dressings antiseptics etc I can- even expired stock Working in a hospital helps😜😩 |
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fei
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Post by fei on Jan 26, 2020 16:36:07 GMT 10
Any advice on what type of dressings, how many, and where is best to buy? 2020 is my year of working on my med preps, starting with a TCCC course in a few weeks. Keen to bulk up my stock of dressings and anything else you think necessary. One casualty in a Remote or Austere setting could burn up everything you have in multiple categories in a week! Improvisation is essential and saves lots of money! Clean cotton bed sheets, rolls of plastic wrap, vet wrap, industrial grade disposable gloves in boxes of hundreds etc etc. bce1 and bushdoc will hopefully comment here. Everyone should also have this:- docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/3b311a_6ef34fffc73447ce9a4d25a4d441b662.pdf"Lack of Supply and the Skill of Improvisation: The key tenant of austere medicine is improvisation. A surprising amount of medical equipment and supplies can be improvised. This is also discussed at length in the Primitive Medicine chapter. The best reference regarding this is: "Improvised Medicine: Providing Care in Extreme Environments" by Ken Iserson’ " (quote from page 45) This is happening in China now with the coronavirus. Even the biggest hospitals in Wuhan are running out of PPE and other consumables. Have seen pics of staff in the smaller hospitals wearing improvised capes and gowns made from garbage bags and plastic sheeting, paired with swimming goggles and various types of hats. |
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