kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jun 5, 2020 18:38:25 GMT 10
I found this cache recently in some boxes as I was futilely trying to make more room! Possibly it will be of some interest to members/guests. I never buried this one. I think it was the first one I ever assembled. Buried ones have slightly different contents. The UPVC is 40.5 cm long including the end caps. The bottom end cap is glued on with UPVC glue. The tops were to have PVC electrical tape wrapped around them about 5 times for waterproofing. This is excessive for waterproofing but gives excess tape available for use after the cache is dug up. There is a tin at top left. This is a cooking vessel. It was selected as it was a good fit inside the tube. Next to it is a glass jar of potassium permanganate (aka EDIT: KMnO4 or Condy's crystals) for water sterilisation and first aid. There is a four pack of sugar and a packet of stock cubes for food. The sugar can also be crushed with the potassium permanganate to make a powder that will ignite easily for firestarting. Hoochie cord (the green string, it is really strong) for cordage and a cloth bag (originally used for M60 belt ammunition) to carry things around in. And a Swiss Army knife as a useful tool, not just for cutting. Of note are the silver package at top left and the little camouflage tin at left centre. The silver package is a reflective emergency blanket. Folded inside of it is a small stainless steel mirror. This is one of the commercially available mirrors cut in half. Useful for signalling, cutting (if the edge is sharpened) and as a mirror! The tin is a personal survival kit. It is covered in camo tape as I had some available at the time. It contains a number of items. Fresnel lens, magnesium block/flint, a small button compass, wire saw, fuse wire, water purification tablets, aspirin, salt tablets. Also a scalpel blade, band-aids, a balloon, needle and thread and some fishing line with a couple of hooks. EDIT: And a couple of birthday candles. This kit and blanket/mirror combo are designed to be put in your pocket if you are going anywhere unusual or if the potential for SHTF is high. I always have one available and recommend that everyone do the same. It gives you a basic level of water/food/fire/shelter. Also in the kit (top centre) are a cyalume lightstick, candle (rolled up in a ziploc bag) and a dozen ziploc bags of different sizes. The ziplocs are primarily for water storage and secondarily for keeping things dry. Under them is a small towel in a ziploc bag and at bottom centre is 4 boxes of waterproof matches and one box of wind and waterproof matches. On the right is three small plastic containers (they split in two at the centre) sealed around the centre with masking tape. I think they came out of Kinder chocolate eggs but the modern ones are crap as they have holes in them. One contains water purification tablets, the second aspirin and salt tablets and the third has a couple of balloons for water storage. Working down from the top right we have a standard first aid dressing and some band-aids in a ziploc bag, a block of Tilley's soap, 4 tablets of Hexamine solid fuel, a pencil, note paper and toilet paper in a ziploc bag and a garbage bag for either carrying things around or as an improvised poncho. There was also a sheet of paper with a list of contents. This also had ratios for sugar/salt rehydration drinks and concentrations for the potassium permanagnate for water sterilisation, firelighting and antiseptic use. There was also, in big letters, words to the effect of "Relax, you've got this, you're prepared, try not to get bored!" or similar. End of contents. A couple of notes: There was no Hexamine smell in the container when opened. There are expiration dates on a number of items. These were also noted on the list of contents. The lightstick expired in April 98, the water sterilisation tablets in Mar 98 and the aspirin in Nov 96. The stock cubes I had marked as purchased in 95. I will open these over the next couple of days and check their condition. Some of the items were packed in very tightly. If I was injured when I dug the cache up it isn't a good idea to need to thump the tube repeatedly to get access to the items. Pack things looser. I am quite happy that even back then I was very concerned about water and water storage. Also firelighting. Anyone got any comments or tips or extra items that would be good to include in future caches. I may as well refill this one and bury it somewhere!
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Post by spinifex on Jun 5, 2020 19:38:05 GMT 10
Lot of good stuff there.
The best water storage you have is the cache container itself. In my experience I cant even put a ziplock bag of water on the ground any place but a beach or sand dune. They get leaks super easy from tiny twigs, grass seeds etc.
If you want to pack things tight, put an item at the far end of the tube, tie string onto it and put a loop in the end of the string up near the opening - pack everything in around the string. Pull string and everything ought to come out easy. Works for a thermal blanket I have very tightly jammed in my hatchet handle.
I can recommend cotton wool with vaseline massaged thru it for fire starter - it'll light up with first strike of a ferro rod and burn quite a while. Kept in a small tablet bottle.
I have a dozen barley sugars in my 1 litre sized survival capsule that I have in my canoe. They'd be used mainly to sharpen mental alertness while hunting/fishing when the chips are really down.
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fei
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Post by fei on Jun 5, 2020 20:59:59 GMT 10
Contents look pretty much like what I had in my "survival kit" when out camping as a kid.
Regarding the kinder eggs - I've got a few items in a "pavlova egg" (twice the size and thicker than a kinder egg), plus have used film canisters for various things. Would need to be lucky to find them these days though.
One question -- how easy is it to find Condy's crystals these days? I remember buying them at the chemist years ago, but I think they're on the restricted list now due to being used in meth production.
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bushdoc2
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Post by bushdoc2 on Jun 6, 2020 8:08:37 GMT 10
Survival "space" blankets themselves can stick to itself and be impossible to use. Based on experience with old ones in the tropics.
Ciggie lighters; the ferro corrodes, as can the spring, if not packaged in mylar (the Robert Timms brand coffee bags are a perfect size for this...but I have not yet tested these after years of storage in the bags...)
Please test EVERYTHING and let us know.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Jun 6, 2020 15:19:30 GMT 10
That looks awesome, thankyou for sharing!
for small plastic eggs like that try Yowies - they're like kinder surprise but without the holes in them
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jun 8, 2020 18:47:04 GMT 10
Good point with the ziploc bags leaking, spinifex. I started putting shopping bags in my caches for that very reason. Not the flimsy ones, the thicker ones like you get from clothing stores. The ziplocs can go in there and then hang the shopping bag by its handles. Keeps them off the ground. And good tip with extracting tight items. I will run hoochie cord from the tin up to the top of the cache and pull it out that way. (This is an early cache or the tin would have holes for a wire handle!) I'll share a tip from survivalistboards for bigger UPVC caches. Cut two discs of plywood which just fit inside the tube. Join them together using a piece of square wood. Assemble it so there is one disc at each end of the wood. A barbell type arrangement. Run string to the top of the cache and lift the disc assembly to raise items below arms reach. The discs/spacer won't twist in the tube so nothing can spill and end up out of reach. Very handy. fei, I did a quick search and chemists still have KMnO4 available. Also feed stores because it is useful to stop the spread of some chook/bird diseases. It used to be available on supermarket shelves, not sure if it still is. Also, thanks spinifex and blueshoes for giving me a reason to by lollies!
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jun 8, 2020 19:07:38 GMT 10
I'll mention that this cache was either in a shed or a house. So the temperature could have varied from around freezing up to 40 degrees. Buried caches will usually experience smaller temperature variation so the contents may last longer. First picture: Puritabs all effervesced to nothing as usual. There was a faint chlorine smell but nowhere near the expected level. Don't count on these working after 20 years! Aspirin also retained their effervescent feature though some took a little longer than others. Of note is they were sealed in foil not plastic as most are today. No idea if the active ingredient is still viable. Someone else might know the useful lifespan. Hexamine solid fuel lit and burnt as normal, also appeared normal but didn't have a lot of smell. Salt tablets (top right) are possibly discoloured. I think they were white on storing. Smelled OK and a nibble just tasted salty, not off. Band-aids stuck well. Still wearing one now after a couple of hours. Note that these are the good plastic type made by J&J years ago. They DON'T come off until you take them off. I don't think these are available any more (GRRR). The Condy's crystals created the usual purple solution. There was an expiry date of 1991 on the jar. This chemical is an oxidizer so it may have lost potency even if it doesn't appear to have done so. Unsure. I'll grind some with sugar to see if it burns in the next couple of days. The metal lid of the jar didn't rust. But I doubt if glass jars with metal lids are available anymore so not really relevant. Also I should have mentioned in the OP that KMnO4 and sugar mixed 9:1 and crushed together produces a powder that is very flammable. The addition of glycerin to this powder will produce spontaneous combustion. Fun to play around with! Pencil and paper were fine. The first testing squiggle was faint to begin with and got darker as it progressed. After sharpening, the second squiggle is consistently dark. This suggests that pencils don't have an infinite lifespan but will dry out or degrade eventually. But this may take a century! Stock cubes had some leakage of the ingredients out from the individual foil packaging. Unwrapping the cube was difficult as it was stuck on in places. No unusual smell was noticed and a nibble didn't taste any different than when packed. Originally they were meant to be crumbled into already boiling water as a soup substitute. I added one to boiling water and let it boil for a couple of minutes. It stank and tasted disgusting. The others that I threw in the fire also gave off a hideous smell. Definitely not usable. Of note is the plastic container (bottom right) which was sealed with masking tape. The tape was still sticky and the container sealed but it was very difficult to remove. It needed to be scraped off with a fingernail and tore frequently. Way too tedious for a SHTF situation. Masking tape was used originally because of concerns that the adhesive on PVC electrical tape might leak or spread contaminating the contents. Masking tape isn't suitable for long term storage. Use PVC or other tape for sealing instead. Oddly the masking tape peeled off of the other sealed container in one piece. I did, however, use a lot of care to remove it. Second picture: One balloon was fine. The other tore near the neck when I tried to inflate it. Both were sticky, the sides didn't move freely against each other when slid between my fingers, but the blue one separated as it was inflated while the yellow one just tore. This was expected. I stopped using balloons a long time ago because of this. Of note is the ziploc bag which held the candle. The candle was place in the bottom and the bag sealed and then rolled up around it. The candle is in as new condition and lights and burns as expected but the plastic bag has wrinkled slightly where it was in contact with the candle. This wrinkling also carried though the plastic into the next layer. Something, either wax or an additive has affected the plastic. The bag was still airtight but be aware that candles aren't inert and may affect nearby items. Also when I refill the cache I will cut the candle into smaller segments to make packing easier and so more flames are available if it is ever used. Tip: for firelighting use a match to light a candle, then light the fire from the candle. This gives you plenty of time to light the fire and saves matches if the fire doesn't light first time. Non-pictured: Reflective emergency blanket was as new. As bushdoc says, exposure to heat will make them stick together. In my experience carrying one in your pocket for a month or two will do the same thing. They become difficult to unfold and the reflective silvering comes off. The lightstick didn't work. This was expected. I have had them work up to 5 years old but this is very rare. Both lots of matches lit as expected. Both from striking on the original matchbox and on a current day Redheads matchbox. This was expected. Matches stored in an airtight plastic bag will last for decades. These were Coghlan's Wind and Water Proof matches, made in Aus. and Greenlites waterproof matches in the cardboard matchbox, also made in Aus. Forgot to mention that the matches had been repacked. As many matches as possible were packed into each matchbox (65 for the waterproof and 35 for the wind and waterproof) and the remaining space was stuffed with cotton wool. This provides tinder for firelighting as well as stopping the matches from rattling around and making noise. I opened the personal survival kit too. Will add a post about the contents.
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jun 17, 2020 0:00:03 GMT 10
Contents of the personal survival kit (PSK). Everything looked OK. The black PVC tape at the top of the image was used to seal the tin. Again excessive tape was used so there would be some available for use after opening the tin. Fresnel lens, scalpel blade, wire saw and button compass were all fine. The wire saw is one of the solid types. A piece of wire with rough ridges around it and a ring on each end. The key to using this type is to keep it straight when cutting. If you allow it to bend too much it will break very easily. A lot of tension, slow movement and light pressure are required. The button compass was just a cheap one from a keyring/little torch/compass combo. From memory they cost $2 each. I bought about a dozen at the time. I went through every one of them that was on the shelf and bought all the ones that pointed true. Only one has stopped working since so apparently cheap button compasses can be OK. I buy Silva brand button compasses these days. Fishhooks wrapped in masking tape were OK. This masking tape was still sticky and showed no deterioration. Masking tape seems to give erratic results in storage. The fishing line was OK. Here it is wrapped around a small piece of boxboard. The end of a sewing needle can just be seen sticking out on the left. Current caches have the needles and fishhooks already threaded ready for use. Do this now, not under SHTF conditions. Birthday candles were unchanged from original conditions. Be aware that carrying the PSK in your pocket can melt these candles from body heat but this is very rare. Leaving the kit in the sun will melt them. Matches are Greenlites as mentioned in the previous post. Here they have been cut down to save space. They are just short enough to fit inside the masking tape so the sides of the tape can be folded over to seal the matches inside. Don't cut them too short.There needs to be enough time to light a candle from them before you burn your fingers. The striker surface was cut off of the matchbox and stuck to the tape. Fold the tape over back onto itself at the end of the tape when sealing the matches in. This gives a loose flap that can be easily lifted to open the pack. The tape adhesive did not affect the matches at all. These are, however, waterproof matches with a wax coating to protect the ignition chemicals in the head. This may not work with ordinary matches. The adhesive may affect the head so they crumble or lose potency. Magnesium block scraped as usual. Flint sparked as normal. The magnesium scrapings did not burn with the usual vigour. They did burn enough to light a fire but as can be seen the shaving don't burn to ash as expected, (those shavings have been lit) about one-third of the shavings ignited. The best description would be a spluttering burn as opposed to a flaring burn. The balloon is stuck to the mag block and the bandaid. I didn't try to inflate it. As noted above, balloons are not suitable for long term storage. The white tubes at bottom right contained sugar and KMnO4. They are the casing from ballpoint pens cut down and sealed with the end caps from the pens. Kilometrico brand from memory. Possibly currently available pens have holes in the end caps so could not be used for this. Check before trying. The end caps were very difficult to remove. The blade from the Swiss Army Knife was inserted between the end cap and the body of the tube and twisted to raise the end cap. This was easy when the pens were new but the end caps appear to have softened and they tended to mangle rather than come out. A difficult task under adverse conditions. An alternative means of storing these powders is needed. The top tube has fuse wire wrapped around it and the bottom one has thread. Hidden under the camo tape is a small piece of stainless steel mirror taped to the bottom of the upside-down tin. The base of the tin is slightly recessed. A small piece of mirror was placed in the recess in the bottom of the tin, then a thin piece of plastic the same size as the mirror (to stop the camo tape from sticking to the mirror) and then both were stuck on with the tape. This saves room inside the tin and means the mirror can be accessed without opening the tin. However, it cannot be stuck back on after removal.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Jun 19, 2020 17:13:31 GMT 10
As you can imagine a buried cache here is not a good idea 8-9 months of the year.. Not with a frost line that can go 2+ meter deep...
We can get "vertical" ammo cans that are 82 cm tall. About the size of a 50 cal can and that tall.. This in roughly 1.5 cubic feet. You would be surprised what will fit in that amount of space.. It has been suggested to paint one to blend, fill and hang in a tree just high enough to keep it out of the snow. Be sure to grease the gasket seal with petroleum jelly to assure a tight seal and non stick to other surfaces.
You still may need snow shoes to get to it, but it won't be encased in frozen ground..
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Post by illuminati on Jun 24, 2020 20:24:24 GMT 10
Interesting post. Thanks for sharing. Lots of good ideas in there and good to see the test results and some of the evolution.
As for my ideas etc:
I personally would like the matches not cut down, so I don’t need to rely on the candles that might (maybe rarely) melt in the sun or a pocket.
Maybe a tarp if would be good to include. Can be used for a shelter. Might be nicer than only having a survival/space blanked. I’d still keep the space blanket. Another option is a survival bivy.
For storing the powders, maybe straws that have but cut and the ends crimped and melted closed. This is what some ultralight backpackers use. I’m not sure how long the straws would last. If they would start to deteriorate or affect the contents (like how the balloons went bad). Being plastic and out of the weather, my guess is they’ll last (practically) forever unless the contents has a (potentially slow) chemical reaction with them.
What about a water filter and a sturdy water bladder rather than trying to use zip lock bags or plastic bags. E.g. a CNOC Vecto and a HydroBlu Versa Flow. This should take care of bacteria and protozoa, but not viruses or chemicals etc. The vecto should be pretty bombproof. Could have the heavy duty shopping bag as a backup.
Maybe a backpack, like the Sea to Summit Ultrasil Drybag. It packs down really small and could be used to transport the contents of the survival cache when opened and used - as a backpack - for carrying things. Which would be my preference vs carrying a pvc tube or shopping bags or zip lock bags in my hands. I’d rather my hands be free for fighting bears and zombies etc.
To easy getting everything out the ideas above are good. If you had the ultrasil backpack or similar you could put the items in it and then it in the tube. Then just pull the bag out of the tube and it will contain all the items. Could help for a save time for a speedy exit if time is of the essence.
These are just my ideas not sure if they are good or bad.
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jun 27, 2020 14:44:35 GMT 10
These are just my ideas not sure if they are good or bad. They are very good ideas. Thank you. I will be trying quite a few of them. Special thanks for the sealed straw idea. This is excellent. It would also allow small quantities to be measured and stored to make it easier to mix them together in the appropriate ratios. And for the tip on the CNOC water bags. I had no idea these existed. A water bladder that can be quickly filled and easily cleaned. Fantastic. (forum need a "thumbs up" smilie!) I should have mentioned that this is an example of what I call a "get another 10 miles" cache. They aren't intended to keep you alive for long. Just long enough to get to a better equipped cache or location. If I actually need one then things are really bad! So they are just buried forever. Current ones contain only items that don't expire or degrade. I checked the Condy's crystals/KMnO4 with the expiry date of 1991. Mixed it with sugar in a ratio of KMnO4:sugar of 9:1. Crushed it together with the side of the glass bottle. It lit easily with a match and burned well. Looks like this chemical will last for decades in storage.
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Post by spinifex on Jun 27, 2020 15:21:42 GMT 10
Wondering ... does Condys and sugar catch fire in rainy/wet conditions? Or dissolve away?
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jul 4, 2020 1:49:17 GMT 10
Wondering ... does Condys and sugar catch fire in rainy/wet conditions? Or dissolve away? That is a very good question! I mixed some and split it into two piles. Put a couple of drops of water on one pile until it was wet but not runny. This wouldn't light. Left it to dry and held a lit match against it. It took a bit but it did burn. The pile had dried as a clump. If I had crushed it again it would have burned better. The dry pile burned fine.
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Post by spinifex on Jul 4, 2020 15:04:56 GMT 10
Can anyone recommend readily available fire starting aid that burns in the wet?
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jul 4, 2020 15:25:41 GMT 10
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Post by spinifex on Jul 4, 2020 15:40:13 GMT 10
Yep. I'm a big fan of vaseline cotton wool myself. I've never tried starting a fire in actual rain with it yet. I know it definately starts a wet wood fire though.
Something for me to try this week I suppose.
Part of me wants to add a couple of drops of petrol to each ball to help it ignite in drizzly conditions
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jul 4, 2020 22:15:45 GMT 10
What about the kero(?) based BBQ firelighters. They might burn when wet. Cheap to try and easily available.
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Post by spinifex on Jul 5, 2020 16:00:05 GMT 10
Well. I just tested the Vaseline smeared cotton wool in a 'light rain' situation.
I put 4 passes over the top with hose on a fine mist. It Lit first strike with a ferro.
Not only that, once it was alight I turned the hose back on and misted the heck out of it. It just kept on burning with a bit more spitting and sizzling sound.
My quest for reliable fire lighting in rainy conditions is over.
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bushdoc2
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Post by bushdoc2 on Jul 5, 2020 18:21:00 GMT 10
What about the kero(?) based BBQ firelighters. They might burn when wet. Cheap to try and easily available. Stinky and they evaporate. Try an old stale one and see how it goes.
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kelabar
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Post by kelabar on Jul 16, 2020 20:06:53 GMT 10
I normally use the peat-based firelighters and although I haven't checked I don't think they will work when wet! Bought a packet of Little Lucifer firelighters (made in Aus) to try out. They come as a block sealed in a plastic/cellophane packet and can be broken off to whatever size is desired. They are not individually sealed. These light instantly with a match. Dunked one in water then dried it off with a cloth. It lit instantly. Then sprayed it with a spray bottle on coarse mist setting. It spluttered a bit but kept burning. Constantly spraying it did extinguish it eventually. Surprisingly they didn't smell much at all. Despite being bombarded with sparks from a flint/steel it wouldn't light that way. No idea about longevity and have no plans to test it.
Will try one of the other brands.
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