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Post by johngalt on Apr 19, 2022 19:20:02 GMT 10
Hi all
What's everyone's plans for keeping the lights on and appliances running should the power grid go down for an extended period of time? I've got myself an Ecoflow River Pro to do the basic stuff like fridge and induction cooktop, I also have a project that I'm working on that will leverage the now useless solar panel array on the roof.
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Post by milspec on Apr 19, 2022 20:23:40 GMT 10
Hi all What's everyone's plans for keeping the lights on and appliances running should the power grid go down for an extended period of time? I've got myself an Ecoflow River Pro to do the basic stuff like fridge and induction cooktop, I also have a project that I'm working on that will leverage the now useless solar panel array on the roof. Since we are off grid we'll just crack on but am now collecting materials to build a wood gasifier to run the petrol genny(s) if/when needed. |
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Post by Stealth on Apr 19, 2022 21:03:45 GMT 10
Hi there John  At the moment, I don't have a real power backup and honestly it's one of the things that I keep thinking about. I have an Engel smart battery box and some solar panels that can be used in the short term, but our longer term plan is to have a good enough solar set up to sort out MOST of our power needs when we finally buy a house (hopefully within the next 12 months). We have several solar charge items like torches and battery packs that can run/charge smaller items. It's definitely something I need to research more because I really struggle with technical things. Understanding the requirements for solar panels and battery power etc. is beyond me. Some people have tried in the past but despite our mutual frustration it never sticks. I'll have to find someone that understands the whole thing and can just recommend a good set up without trying to sell me a lemon. |
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hd1340
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Post by hd1340 on Apr 19, 2022 21:37:22 GMT 10
Two small systems 1000W solar panels/270ah of batteries and 6000w inverter on each(components to set up a third when I get time), wind turbine still to setup and a couple of petrol generators not huge but enough to get by if need be.
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hd1340
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Post by hd1340 on Apr 19, 2022 23:19:05 GMT 10
Two small systems 1000W solar panels/270ah of batteries and 6000w inverter on each(components to set up a third when I get time), wind turbine still to setup and a couple of petrol generators not huge but enough to get by if need be. Also have a hundred or so rechargeable aa, d & aaa's I rotate through various laterns ,torches and sensor lights( do a bit of night shift occasionally so always some torch batteries on charge at work lol). A couple of dozen power banks also( haven't plugged the phone into the wall to charge in years). Plenty of 10yr shelf life duracells on the shelf. Moving to battery powered tools. Lost the mains power to the shed whilst I had the house rented out and haven't bothered to fix it. Definitely cost me more than the power I've saved but we'd survive without the grid if we had to. |
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Apr 20, 2022 0:46:00 GMT 10
I am just old school. Priced generators the other day then thought about how much fuel I would have to store, then gave it a miss. To keep electrical power running is a major investment with little benefit other than keeping a fridge running.
Have plenty of candles, more than 20l of lamp oil with a number of hurricane lanterns, butane camping stoves with dozens of bottles. Emergency torches with dynamo cranking and min solar charges. Have groundwater bailers to get water out of bores/
Have ability and capacity to pressure can and dehydrate all contents of the freezer and fridge, keep spare canning bottles. Have a few 2l frozen drink bottles in freezer will keep it cold for a few days. A wet towel over a good quality cooler box contents will be kept cool for up to a week.
My Toyota ute has a factory fitted 220v outlet that can run a small fridge - so have some emergency backup power and keep a few jerry cans of fuel.
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bug
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Post by bug on Apr 20, 2022 8:58:48 GMT 10
Our electricity plan is as follows.
Option 1) No reliance on electricity. Besides the fridge, don't really need it. Even then, once the stores empty, not much to refrigerate. Might be different for people with a big freezer full of meat. So I have a 3kVA petrol genny, to run a couple of hours each day. For cooking I've got some gas bottles and am amassing firewood. We have solar panels, but no grid battery, so it's really economic, not prep. I've got some old car batteries too for running minor electronics. Lots of rechargable batteries, but besides torches, I don't see a huge use for them.
Option 2) We plan to get an EV in about 3 years as prices are coming down. An EV battery can run a house for a week and can be charged by rooftop solar and/or the genny.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 20, 2022 12:45:09 GMT 10
What's your definition of 'extended period of time'?
For a couple of weeks grid down I would use my gas cooker, 3 way fridge, solar panel to recharge batteries, and generator for short periods of use of larger appliances.
For a grid down situation extending longer than that, I'd relocate to my off grid retreat. Solar panels that run fridge, freezer, lights, pumps, radio, that long noisy thing the wife uses to suck up dust, recharge batteries and even runs the microwave for short periods during full sun. Gas cooker whilst my seven 9kg bottles last, then several lifetimes worth of wood for water heating, warming the cabin, and cooking.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 20, 2022 16:49:17 GMT 10
No issue at all here, wouldn't even notice a total, complete, permanent grid down, apart from when we visited town and couldn't get stuff. Each dwelling has its own independent solar system, ranging from 3.2 kw to the main 12 kw system. Battery's range from 24 volt, 1,000 amp hrs to 48 volts, 2,500 amp hours submarine battery. Genes, several petrol, one duel fuel, lp gas and petrol honda 8.5 kva, a 12 kva water cooled diesel, etc. 6 systems in total so far. It is nice to see over 170 amps at 48 volts going in in full sun, giving enough power for irrigation, and even heating hot water with the 240 element in the solar hot water tank. Literally, power to burn as heat. Add wood stoves, electric log splitters, 3 phase electric saw bench that runs from the main solar system etc, and who gives a s..t if the grid dies ? Backup solar on the radio room as well. Heaps fuel stored with stabilizer in tanks and jerry cans.
Not bragging, just pointing out whats possible if you think about it all, and know its all going down at some stage and prepping for some years to be ready.
Also, spare inverters, solar panels regulators etc, in an emp proof steel room.
Maybe if we ever have a meetup, a solar talk could be done for those interested ?
You know you own an old tractor when.......Your pillow looks a lot darker in the morning.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 20, 2022 16:57:07 GMT 10
I think electric power is a topic ignored. Life as we know it would be possible, but difficult without electric. Guns, gold, beans, and bullets are all necessary as well, but, life is going to need more inputs than those after TSHTF, such as comms.
Another thing not given much attention is weather forecasting. I have some simple gear that monitors the electric charge in the atmosphere, which gives advance warning of storms, etc, without any external input from a weather beuro, that will not be around after TSHTF.
Any one else got their own seismograph or even a Geiger counter ?Or am I the only paranoid one here ?
You know you own an old tractor when.....You drive by a farm bursting with horse and alpacas, and your 3 year old sees at tractor ploughing and blurts out "look, mummys tractor"!
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Apr 20, 2022 18:01:01 GMT 10
I think electric power is a topic ignored. Life as we know it would be possible, but difficult without electric. Guns, gold, beans, and bullets are all necessary as well, but, life is going to need more inputs than those after TSHTF, such as comms. Another thing not given much attention is weather forecasting. I have some simple gear that monitors the electric charge in the atmosphere, which gives advance warning of storms, etc, without any external input from a weather beuro, that will not be around after TSHTF. Any one else got their own seismograph or even a Geiger counter ?Or am I the only paranoid one here ? You know you own an old tractor when.....You drive by a farm bursting with horse and alpacas, and your 3 year old sees at tractor ploughing and blurts out "look, mummys tractor"! I have a small Bunnings weather station, it is now time to be replaced. Have a number of barometers that is the biggest weather indicators, have one in bug out bag. Have login access to a number of tri-axle blast vibration monitors, if mobile reception goes down that resource will no longer be available. As to radiation testing I left all the equipment back in Africa, I think a big risk is for EMP nukes. |
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 20, 2022 18:14:08 GMT 10
I have a finely tuned built-in barometer that measures how annoyed the mrs is. You don't want to be unprepared when that tempest hits.
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Post by johngalt on Apr 20, 2022 19:39:11 GMT 10
It's definitely something I need to research more because I really struggle with technical things. Understanding the requirements for solar panels and battery power etc. is beyond me. Some people have tried in the past but despite our mutual frustration it never sticks. I'll have to find someone that understands the whole thing and can just recommend a good set up without trying to sell me a lemon. I have a friend who is the same, she was confused about what to buy as well, but that is the wrong end to start. I first got her to identify the devices she absolutely needed to keep running, we checked the name plates and did the calculations and went from there, you have to know what you want to run before you buy the device to do it. Since she wasn't very good with this stuff we went with the pre-built units like the Ecoflow or Bluetti, should just be plug and play for her after that, however that does come at a premium price when compared to home built units. I'm also realistic as well about what I truly could get by with, the likely hood of it happening and my circumstances here in the suburbs, for example some of the biggest ecoflow devices retail for around $7000, it is a nice device and would cover every need I have currently however not really something I want just lying around in the back room waiting for STHF. My biggest need is to have something to start a 1.5hp bore pump as my backup water source. I've currently sourced a growatt inverter to make use of the rooftop panels, I haven't built that solution yet. |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 20, 2022 19:45:06 GMT 10
Barometers are useful, but my instrumentation can sense or detect the buildup to a storm, sometimes days before its even visable on a weather radar. It also can detect any thing that disturbs the electric field of the Earth, not the magnetic field, the electric field. Ive detected the French nuke tests in the Pacific as a emp, yes, ive seen an emp on my chart, the phenomena is very real. Meteor showers also disturb the field as does even a person walking around. (E-field detector). My thesis at UNi was on e-field detectors.
You know you own an old tractor when....You own a Ferguson model 20, and aremember who borrowed it to do some clearing last summer.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 20, 2022 19:47:23 GMT 10
Johngalt, if we ever manage to set up a meetup, we might run a workshop on solar, comms etc.
You know you own an old tractor when.....You are not concerned about it because you didn't have anything to do with it anyway.
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Post by johngalt on Apr 20, 2022 19:47:56 GMT 10
What's your definition of 'extended period of time'? I would say 7 days plus, the point when candle lit dinners and going to the toilet by torchlight aren't fun anymore. |
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Post by johngalt on Apr 20, 2022 19:55:35 GMT 10
Another thing not given much attention is weather forecasting. I have some simple gear that monitors the electric charge in the atmosphere, which gives advance warning of storms, etc, without any external input from a weather beuro, that will not be around after TSHTF. For that I rely on the old NOAA Sats that do a pass twice a day and fax you down a pretty picture, seems good enough for my layman eyes. It's old 1970's tech that transmits down on 143Mhz or something, can be picked up on your basic scanner or SDR, only downside is it needs some software to process the image, but the compute requirements are low so any old PC should be able to do it. Attachments:
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 20, 2022 20:05:06 GMT 10
My definition of an extended time, is...for ever, its all gone tits up and we are on our own. Perhaps at some stage in the far distant future, someone or some organization will repair enough of the grid equipment, turbines and so on, to get some of it up and running, but Im planning for it to be a total write off forever. Weve already been here, at our bug out location, for nearly 20 years with no major issues, apart from the odd trip due to using too much power, like the irrigation pumps are running, the hot water is being boosted, the bread maker is on, and one of the troops decides to warm up lunch in the microwave. Suddenly, the 5 kw continuous, 12 kw peak inverter seems a bit small ! Even phase to run a firewood saw bench comes from a homemade phase converter from the main solar system. Yes, 3 phase is easy to do with some capacitors and electronic jiggery pokery.
You know you own an old tractor when.....you see tractors in places no one else does. |
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Post by johngalt on Apr 20, 2022 20:11:07 GMT 10
Johngalt, if we ever manage to set up a meetup, we might run a workshop on solar, comms etc. Sounds like a plan, my current goal at the moment is to be able to start a 1.5hp bore pump during power grid down to keep me with access to fresh water. I've done some measuring with a clamp meter and the running current is 1100 watts, however starting current is 5500 watts for 100ms. I've got my hands on a Growatt SPF 5000 ES offgrid inverter, the plan was to mount the unit in some sort of box or case couple it to a small amp hour set of batteries, keep it out of the way until needed occasionally maintaining the batteries, then when SHTF wheel it out and connect to to my 3000 watt grid tie solar array. The hope is with say 2400 watts from the panels and a little helping from the batteries it should be enough to get the motor started before it settles into it's running wattage which would be covered off by the solar. That's really the only goal for this setup and the occasional topping up of my Ecoflow lithium battery. |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 20, 2022 20:21:48 GMT 10
Starting current is the main issue. That's what the short term rating of a decent inverter is for, usually for a few seconds or so. Our 5kva 48 v inverter/charger can start 2 off 1.5 hp irrigation pumps, the hot water system and the fridges and freezers all at once, but,the peak current from the submarine battery's is over 500 amps for a few seconds. Peak solar under such a load is over 250 amps dc. Im not sure a lithium battery would handle such large currents without the internal protection circuitry shutting it down.
You know you own an old tractor when.....Your tractors are older than you and run better !
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