captain
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Post by captain on Aug 23, 2024 16:52:21 GMT 10
Hi all,
just curious - has anyone gone down the EV route and have now got themselves a full EV? Not a hybrid - but an exclusive EV.
I don’t want this topic to turn into a debate on the pros and cons of EVs. This is not the thread for that and no judgements and no parroting misinformation. Just respect other people’s thoughts and accept that some may think different to you.
This thread is for those that are interested in an EV or already has one. If you don’t fall into that category then leave.
So has anyone decided to bypass the petrol companies, the servicing costs etc and have decided to be independent with an EV?
if so, what did you get?
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bug
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Post by bug on Aug 24, 2024 7:41:04 GMT 10
We are going to, but haven't yet. Waiting for the Battery to Grid models to become available.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Aug 24, 2024 8:41:28 GMT 10
Trivia..
I saw a short video of Case produced an electric version of there famous and popular 580 tractor backhoe model.. Admittedly they say it was more a ..just to prove we can.. venture.. No idea if this is available for sale or not. It is said to be able to work between 4 and 8 hours before needing 8 full hours of charge..
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Also videos posted by some guys in northern Canada who have built there own 8 axle bush logging truck hybrid.. Again, mostly just because they could do it.. In the north there they use essentially ..off road.. (highway) trucks to haul timber to staging areas for road trucks to haul to the mills..
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....Battery to grid.... models.. ?? Can you provide a definition of this please ?? How is it different than the current technology now ??
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Aug 24, 2024 9:10:59 GMT 10
Battery to grid isn't new. I installed the first solar/battery/grid interactive inverter system in the early 1980's at Jamberoo on the south coast. It used a Trace bi-directional inverter, a 24 v 1,000 amp hr BP Solar battery, Plasmatronics regulators and 3.6 Kw solar. When the battery's were charged, it switched the excess power to the grid. Oh boy, what fun I had trying to convince the electric authority that the meters needed antirotating palls fitted as they just went the wrong ways when exporting power. Simple now with 'smart' meters, but 40 + years ago not so simple. The system would also run stand alone if the grid failed, and the customer received some income from the power produced, but at that time there was no methods in place to actually get money back from Integral Energy (Illawarra County Council), so the refund just accumulated. I don't know what happened ultimately, but the Land and Environment court was involved in getting the refund.
Electric car grid feed systems are essentially the same thing, minus the solar bits n pieces of course. The technology allows for remote control of the feed in by the supply authority and other monitoring options, but is essentially the same hardware.
We have considered an all electric model vehicle, but cost is obviously an issue. Power isn't as we have adequate solar (over 30 kw), to charge the main battery's by 10 am in winter, and solar panels are cheap anyway now.
There are some hybrids coming out that allow full battery operation for 50 km or so, designed for inner city areas overseas where you are not allowed to enter the city center with a petrol vehicle. That has some appeal as it gives the range if needed from the engine, with battery operation when doing short trips.
We had our sons Toyota Corolla hybrid for a few months whilst he went overseas and my wife loved it. I see hybrids as a stepping stone to full electric operation, getting people used to electric car technology without the range anxiety that plagues all electric models.
The grid is gonna need massive expansion to cope with all these electric cars, and once again, plug in hybrids could allow a planned, orderly expansion of it. Grid interactive technology is also a way to smooth out the transition to all electric.
Anyone notice the article re installation of a massive grid intertie system to Indonesia from central Australian solar farms ? I believe that's the way to go, intertie all the grids of the world together, as there is always some part in sun at any time. Power conversion from 50 to 60 hz, etc is easy with modern power semiconductors. Brings a new meaning to the term 'follow the sun'.
Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Aug 24, 2024 16:49:36 GMT 10
Disclaimer.... I'm electrical illiterate...
OK.. So what I think you are saying is the car battery will put power back into the grid like a home wind turbine ??
It would seem there would be a lot of complication with that in that if you put power into the grid from the car battery and created a bit of revenue, you would have to recharge the car somehow to be able to use it.. ?? Seems kind of a ..rob Peter to pay Paul.. system to manage ??
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Post by Stealth on Aug 24, 2024 22:26:23 GMT 10
Hubby has a plug in hybrid and it's great, but not what you were asking about so I won't go on about that lol.
We do however have a friend who has a Tesla and regrets his choice. Not because it's functionally not good to use, but because not only has it nosedived in value (in fairness, no one could have predicted that specific drop) but also because it's so... Fussy. The regenerative breaking takes a bit of control out of your hands, if you're planning on going anywhere that's outside of a city you really have to plan your trip because you can't assume that you'll pass somewhere that you can refuel, and he said that the actual system itself is moderately frustrating and lacking in customisation options given that it's effectively a computer on wheels.
He's a network engineer and has zero issues with technology and computers but of course that could be a part of the issue. He knows how an intuitive system should run and is frustrated by inconsistencies or silly system choices. When I asked him if he thinks Telsas specifically will improve he said that he doesn't think they'll change too much in the near future because they're just getting to a 'mass production' state. He thinks that a new release vehicle will likely have improvements to the vehicles as a whole but he doesn't think that it will happen for current vehicles and the software that they're released with now.
He figures that new vehicles will be released with new tech that makes battery use and power regeneration more effective and better managed but he said that he specifically thinks that Telsa probably won't be the market leader in that field. He expects other manufacturers to come up with innovative new tech that makes the vehicles more impressive and viable for the size of our country. But that of course is only the opinion of one person who owns one particular model of EV which is frankly, not exactly new tech anymore. His is about five years old so certainly not a flash bells and whistles model.
That being said, he did say that as a daily driver for town driving he's found it extremely economical and it does charge up very quickly at home. He also enjoys the ability to track and alter the vehicle because his daughter will drive it around occasionally and he knows exactly where she is an if she's tracking to where she should be appropriately through an app on his phone. If you're concerned about someone being able to see where you are then that might be something to take into account. But he said that there's a lot of small features that he enjoys but would happily go without for a vehicle with better batteries etc.
I actually think full EVs will get better and better as the tech updates but I didn't go that direction because the full and even hybrid EV utes are few and far between, but hubby's hybrid has been pretty fantastic so far. Eventually when my currently new ute gives up the ghost I'm hoping the tech will have improved enough that I'll be comfortable going with one of those options given that we live regionally. As my car is new I'm hoping to get at least another 15-20 years out of it. And I think by then my diesel will be frustrating and difficult to find fuelling points for in comparison to EV charge points.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Aug 25, 2024 8:57:07 GMT 10
Exactly Tim, the cars battery is feeding electric back into the grid via a special inverter, bi directional.
Advantages, to the supply authority anyway, include a distributed power system, I.e. power delivery spread throughout the system, making the distribution losses less, i.e. more efficient.
The tech is pretty simple nowadays, but wasn't always like that. I remember when I was working for Integral Environmental Energy, we decided to see how a small back of panel grid feed (400watt) inverter would work feeding power back in to the grid from a battery, a 100 amp hr BP solar 12 v PV store type.
In a word, spectacular ! With purple and bright yellow flames from the inverter, along with lots of white smoke.
A little theory, simple I promise. A grid connect inverter aims to get max energy into the grid directly from a solar panel. This is achieved by the inverter loading down the solar panel till the voltage falls off. This is known as the maximum power point, or MPPT, and is when the panel is delivering the max output for the conditions, and is 'tested' by loading down the panel 160 times a second. Now, a solar panel is a finite energy source, it can only deliver its rated power, but a battery is almost, short term anyway, an infinite power source, so the inverter above tried to do a MPPT tracking on an infinite power source, looking for the voltage to fall. It didn't and with no current limiting, the result was probably predicable.
Back to electric car battery's. The supply authority may offer a feed in tariff, more generous than the supply tariff to encourage the take up of the idea. Also, the 'smarts' in a electric car will know the duty cycle or use of the vehicle and following a request from the supply authority for power, will determine that yes, the car rarely gets used on a Sunday and I can give it 20 kwh, at perhaps a variable tariff even.
In the grid feed solar system I described earlier, the trigger point was max battery charge voltage. Any excess from the solar was not being used and available for essentially 'free' to be used another way, like feeding into the grid.
The tech involved is quite complicated, and the safety interlocks are extensive to protect the grid and any personnel working on it, say after a power failure. The inverter must be able to drop off in 20 ms, and not reconnect for 1 minute, the same as for a battery less grid system.
Now, with electric cars spread throughout the community, this is called distributed system and is the most efficient type of power transmission.
The scheme will need to be opt in to, so the owner can chose weather to participate or not.
The whole dynamic of power use is changing, with 'off peak' now being the middle of the day when there is excess solar available. So now hot water systems are being boosted during the day, not at night. Ditto for electric car charging, and I can see the tariffs being made variable for charging them according to time of day and even perhaps grid loading, weather or even use.
Interesting times indeed.
The Snowy mountains scheme should be used as a big battery storing energy as potential energy in water, releasing it at night. Along with the idea of linking the worlds power grids together giving 24 hour sun at some place, the need for oil and even nuclear energy will diminish. We will see if the worlds leaders can get their s..t together and agree on standards and time frames, or if 'global warming' is all hot air and about control. Or will it all collapse into a screaming heap of putrid corruption before we have 'evolved' enough to understand that alternatives do exist.
In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
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bug
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Post by bug on Aug 26, 2024 7:19:34 GMT 10
Disclaimer.... I'm electrical illiterate... OK.. So what I think you are saying is the car battery will put power back into the grid like a home wind turbine ?? It would seem there would be a lot of complication with that in that if you put power into the grid from the car battery and created a bit of revenue, you would have to recharge the car somehow to be able to use it.. ?? Seems kind of a ..rob Peter to pay Paul.. system to manage ?? Yes essentially. The technology has been around for a long time, but most EV manufacturers either don't support it, or outright oppose it. This is in stark contrast to electricity operators such as SA Power Networks who are actively encouraging it on their grid. You can trade energy but filling the battery for free at noon on a sunny day, they exporting back into the grid at dinner time for a high rate. Baffled as to why EV manufacturers would oppose something that is such a major selling point for their vehicles. |
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bug
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Post by bug on Aug 26, 2024 7:24:35 GMT 10
Hubby has a plug in hybrid and it's great, but not what you were asking about so I won't go on about that lol. We do however have a friend who has a Tesla and regrets his choice. Not because it's functionally not good to use, but because not only has it nosedived in value (in fairness, no one could have predicted that specific drop) but also because it's so... Fussy. The regenerative breaking takes a bit of control out of your hands, if you're planning on going anywhere that's outside of a city you really have to plan your trip because you can't assume that you'll pass somewhere that you can refuel, and he said that the actual system itself is moderately frustrating and lacking in customisation options given that it's effectively a computer on wheels. He's a network engineer and has zero issues with technology and computers but of course that could be a part of the issue. He knows how an intuitive system should run and is frustrated by inconsistencies or silly system choices. When I asked him if he thinks Telsas specifically will improve he said that he doesn't think they'll change too much in the near future because they're just getting to a 'mass production' state. He thinks that a new release vehicle will likely have improvements to the vehicles as a whole but he doesn't think that it will happen for current vehicles and the software that they're released with now. He figures that new vehicles will be released with new tech that makes battery use and power regeneration more effective and better managed but he said that he specifically thinks that Telsa probably won't be the market leader in that field. He expects other manufacturers to come up with innovative new tech that makes the vehicles more impressive and viable for the size of our country. But that of course is only the opinion of one person who owns one particular model of EV which is frankly, not exactly new tech anymore. His is about five years old so certainly not a flash bells and whistles model. That being said, he did say that as a daily driver for town driving he's found it extremely economical and it does charge up very quickly at home. He also enjoys the ability to track and alter the vehicle because his daughter will drive it around occasionally and he knows exactly where she is an if she's tracking to where she should be appropriately through an app on his phone. If you're concerned about someone being able to see where you are then that might be something to take into account. But he said that there's a lot of small features that he enjoys but would happily go without for a vehicle with better batteries etc. I actually think full EVs will get better and better as the tech updates but I didn't go that direction because the full and even hybrid EV utes are few and far between, but hubby's hybrid has been pretty fantastic so far. Eventually when my currently new ute gives up the ghost I'm hoping the tech will have improved enough that I'll be comfortable going with one of those options given that we live regionally. As my car is new I'm hoping to get at least another 15-20 years out of it. And I think by then my diesel will be frustrating and difficult to find fuelling points for in comparison to EV charge points. First time I got in a tesla, the most frustrating thing was that I couldn't operate the door handle. As you mentioned, it is not intuative at all. And that farking touch screen. Tesla have made a massive mistake in moving production to China. They can no longer stay the market leader as any innovations they develop will be stolen and start appearing in the Chinese models, BYD, Chery etc. I expect them to slowly but surely lose relevance. |
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Aug 26, 2024 8:40:03 GMT 10
"Tesla have made a massive mistake in moving production to China. They can no longer stay the market leader as any innovations they develop will be stolen and start appearing in the Chinese models, BYD, Chery etc. I expect them to slowly but surely lose relevance."
Yup, the Chinese are certainly not innovators, but imitators, and will copy/clone anything that they can make a quid from. That also applies domestically to their 'tofu dreg' construction practices, with sub standard materials being used in bridges, housing and so on, leading to bribes to turn away and certify sub standard work and collapses/deaths.
The coming collapse will sort them out though, leaving those who cant think independently or innovate solutions to suffer the consequences. Ditto for the west as well.
We have spent the best part of 20 years working out what grows here, what sort of grows with help and what's a waste of time. Now when we plant out we can be reasonably sure of success, except for others failures like the introduction (deliberate ?) of the Veroa mite to decimate honey production in Australia, and some species of 'rust' to infect rice/wheat production.
Times nearly over to be able to operate independently of the system, and no matter who 'wins' the coming USA debacle election, the world will be forever changed. A 'simple' election wont derail the elites plans for one world government and all the other things they are perusing.
Appropriate tagline.....
There is no substitute for knowledge, its the ultimate power.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Oct 13, 2024 11:43:15 GMT 10
On the local news they are saying in Florida insurance companies are telling people to NOT try to charge there electric vehicles if they have been in any water.. And to remove there vehicle from the garage, yard to a safe place and distance so that if it does catch fire it will only consume the car..
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Oct 14, 2024 7:09:35 GMT 10
But its safe......
Shall we pick up the pace gentlemen ?
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bug
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Post by bug on Oct 14, 2024 7:56:55 GMT 10
Same as not driving your car if you think floodwater has gotten into the fuel.
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Post by Sc0pe on Oct 17, 2024 20:25:12 GMT 10
It's not really, contaminated fuel isnt going to catastrophically explode...Wet batteries on the other hand....
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Oct 18, 2024 7:10:12 GMT 10
'Electricity and water don't mix"-Homer Simpson.
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bug
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Post by bug on Oct 18, 2024 9:15:21 GMT 10
That narrative which is totally at odds with reality is exactly the kind of thing people on here complain about in regards to other issues. The reality is that ICE vehicles are vastly more likely to catch fire than EVs. It's not even close. evcentral.com.au/ice-vehicles-80-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-electric-cars/And if you don't believe that, go to a wreckers yard. All the burnt out shells of cars are ICE not EV. |
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Post by Sc0pe on Oct 20, 2024 0:33:39 GMT 10
LOL, I only have to see the link and realize where it is from to know you are just spreading propaganda.
There are more then one thing at play here, but i do know this. More EV's spontaneously combust in garages on chargers then ICE cars, and secondly, The actual fire an EV causes is a very extreme fire that is very difficult to put out (chemical), Unlike a more conventional fire in an ICE car.
Either way, I see you have drank the coolaid, and like the taste...
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Oct 20, 2024 4:55:56 GMT 10
Yes.. I'm sure there are more ...burned out shells... of conventional cars in wrecking yards then EV.. But I also believe if you compare the number of fires as a percent of registered conventional or EV cars on the road, the percent of EV fires per 1000 or how ever you want to calculate it is vastly different..
And like said, I'm guessing the severity of the fire, equipment needed to fight the fire, residue left after the fire is likely much more toxic and harder to handle..
Just my 5 cents of opinion..
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Oct 20, 2024 8:03:42 GMT 10
Add in the damage caused to a lot of charging stations due to copper theft and suddenly a full EV doesn't make sense. Perhaps a case can be made for home charging, but unless you wat to wait for 24 hours to recharge a dedicated high power charger is necessary, and expensive.
The Fire Brigade now has a large truck mounted tub of water and crane that they pick up the EV that's spontaneously combusting and drowns the fire. Effective, but expensive.
Success in life is not for those who run fast, but for those who keep running and always on the move.
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bug
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Post by bug on Oct 21, 2024 11:25:06 GMT 10
LOL, I only have to see the link and realize where it is from to know you are just spreading propaganda. There are more then one thing at play here, but i do know this. More EV's spontaneously combust in garages on chargers then ICE cars, and secondly, The actual fire an EV causes is a very extreme fire that is very difficult to put out (chemical), Unlike a more conventional fire in an ICE car. Either way, I see you have drank the coolaid, and like the taste... So you've responded with...reads post again...nothing but an insult. |
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