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Post by Peter on Sept 2, 2018 22:17:43 GMT 10
I appreciate that there are some people in public life who are worthy of respect. For example, there are people such as Thomas Sowell (economist/philosopher) and Jordan Peterson (psychologist/political commentator) who have shown themselves to be intellectually far above average. I would enjoy sensible discussion on a range of topics with both of them. I met John Anderson (former deputy PM) once and had an interesting but all-too-brief conversation with him. I've met others who are famous and - for those with whom I was not engaged fully in discussion - exchanged sensible, polite greetings with them.
There are also some artists I respect - there are some musicians (in my case, particularly of classical and jazz genres) with whom I would enjoy discussing music. I'm sure I'd enjoy discussion with folks like Sandor Katz (a fermented food expert), or James Wesley, Rawles (a renowned author on preparedness (admittedly whose opinion can divide)). I also enjoy discussions with a range of people who have proven their worth in their chosen fields, but who have avoided fame. In short, if someone knows their field and isn't full of crap, I'm generally interested in discourse with them.
But this evening I endured a number of YouTube videos about "celebrities" (whatever the hell that's meant to mean) meeting their fans. There was a lot of screaming, jumping, hugging, and expressions of love, an incoherent babbling. Pop "musicians", rap "singers", and actors (known biblically as "hypocrites" (from the Attic Greek hypokrisis)) lapped it up.
Can anyone explain why the hell anyone would behave in such a ridiculous way simply because they're in the presence of someone famous? Are these people competent or useful in any practical sense? What is the appeal?
I've known for a long time that I see the world differently to many people (part of the reason I prepare), but this is beyond ridiculous. Or is it simply that the "fans" (ie, fanatics) are confused? Is it idolatry? Lust? Infatuation? Idiocy?
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Sept 2, 2018 22:31:34 GMT 10
To me it seems like an extreme idolatry... which is never particularly healthy. While it might not seem like they do anything useful to you or me, they have reached the pinnacle of their particular social dominance hierarchy and trade in a very different currency than what we would accept. You see it in sport and politics also. People choose to join that group and those at the top garner almost god like status.
I feel the same processes in the brain that allow people to experience euphoria in the presence of their god can be redirected to a personal idol if that is what they choose to worship.
To respect and to worship a person triggers very different responses. Not sure you can directly compare them.
That's always been my take on the more extreme fandom anyway...
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Post by Peter on Sept 2, 2018 22:40:58 GMT 10
Yes, there were some sportsmen in there as well. And I think that idolatry is the best explanation. Although being competent at one's profession is respectable but not worthy of worship.
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Post by SA Hunter on Sept 2, 2018 22:53:17 GMT 10
Agreed - I love to get into discussions with these people - "OMG, it's so & so". Me "And?" "They are famous, they're on tv" Me "I've been on tv more than once, does that make me famous?" "But, they are actors/actresses" Me "So, you are idolising someone who makes a living from pretending to be someone they're not?" "You don't get it" Me "Yeah, I get it."
Then comes my philosophical tirade on the shallowness of society, and it's adulation of these society worships, and who think that their opinions dictate what should happen in the world"
βMany people define who they are, based upon what the world sees when it looks at them. They build themselves with their foundation set upon the perceptions of others. Do others think they are good, kind, smart, loving? But I define who I am, based upon the person who looks back at me in the mirror. If you were the only person on Earth, with nobody to see you, know your name, or ever be aware of your existence; what kind of person would you be? Live for the person who looks back at you in the mirror and be that person even if you are the last human being on Earth. Too many people live for what the world will think and will see; too few people live for their own soul. Are you smart, successful, got lots of super ideas? But those are not important questions. This is the most important question: do you know how to love? I do not care if nobody on Earth were to know my name; do I know my own soul? Do I know how to love? These are the questions I ask myself.β β C. JoyBell C.
βI find that... The bigger the ego. The bigger the mouth. The deeper the shallowness of a person.β β Anthony T.Hincks
It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters. Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post by jonasparker on Sept 3, 2018 0:13:34 GMT 10
Can anyone explain why the hell anyone would behave in such a ridiculous way simply because they're in the presence of someone famous? Are these people competent or useful in any practical sense? What is the appeal? I've known for a long time that I see the world differently to many people (part of the reason I prepare), but this is beyond ridiculous. Or is it simply that the "fans" (ie, fanatics) are confused? Is it idolatry? Lust? Infatuation? Idiocy? I have no idea. I wouldn't let most of these celebrities into my house to clear a stopped up toilet. "Competent"? "Useful"? These dolts don't know the meaning of the words. I'll take "idiocy" for $1,000, Alex! (with apologies to Jeopardy watchers),
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Post by SA Hunter on Sept 3, 2018 0:19:27 GMT 10
I'll take "idiocy" for $1,000, Alex! (with apologies to Jeopardy watchers),
Love it!!
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Post by SA Hunter on Sept 3, 2018 0:25:36 GMT 10
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Sept 3, 2018 14:04:27 GMT 10
Does seem unfortunate that people (doesnt have to be celebrities!) have come to expound their views more often with less actual knowledge of a subject with the rise of the 'Rights' culture...We too in NZ (probably seems to be more of them than Aussie actually) are able to expound their opinion (whether they have any actual topic knowledge) because it is their right to have a say...Ive always believed it better to shut up if I didnt know about a topic and glean some new revelation...
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feralemma
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Post by feralemma on Sept 3, 2018 16:23:11 GMT 10
If your mouth is open and there's noise coming out you're not learning anything! Something I have to remind my oldest son of quite often π£
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feralemma
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Post by feralemma on Sept 3, 2018 16:29:51 GMT 10
In saying that, the most famous person I've met is Lee Kernaghan who I've been on stage with with my tits out...all class π I miss being young and feral ππ
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Post by spinifex on Sept 3, 2018 18:07:12 GMT 10
In saying that, the most famous person I've met is Lee Kernaghan who I've been on stage with with my tits out...all class π I miss being young and feral ππ Err ... I'd like to 'like' that but I also have daughters ... so ... um ... yeah.
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Post by spinifex on Sept 3, 2018 18:17:30 GMT 10
Dunno Pete. It's been happening since the Beatle-mania of early 60's.
I think it's tribalism gone nuts. People want to signal that they are part of a particular group with particular 'identity figures' - the celebrities/heros. The more they demonstrate their devotion to the identity figures the more relevant they feel.
Anyone who is properly secure in who they are doesn't display that kind of behavior in my experience.
On a related theme ... ever notice how Subaru drivers often look like they are prepared to go hiking? - As they get out of their car to go shopping at woolworths? It's all about identifying and signalling within a group.
It's also rare to see a Saab or Volvo in the drive-though at Mcdonalds/KFC.
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Post by Peter on Sept 3, 2018 19:23:47 GMT 10
I think most sports 'stars' need a swift kick up the backside... Agreed - and two kicks for actors. When I hear an actor carry on telling everyone who to vote for, I can't help but think of them as overpaid monkeys. "Dance, monkey, dance".
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feralemma
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Post by feralemma on Sept 3, 2018 19:30:42 GMT 10
In saying that, the most famous person I've met is Lee Kernaghan who I've been on stage with with my tits out...all class π I miss being young and feral ππ Err ... I'd like to 'like' that but I also have daughters ... so ... um ... yeah. Β Mate I'm happy that I ran amok, didn't give a fook and come out the other side alive! There were a few of us who weren't so lucky. I've always lived by regretting the things I didn't do, rather than the things I did do π Lol you will probably only know a tenth of what your daughters get up to π
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Post by SA Hunter on Sept 3, 2018 20:39:47 GMT 10
In saying that, the most famous person I've met is Lee Kernaghan who I've been on stage with with my tits out...all class π I miss being young and feral ππ Err ... I'd like to 'like' that but I also have daughters ... so ... um ... yeah. Did it for you!!!
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Post by SA Hunter on Sept 3, 2018 20:41:19 GMT 10
Better to close your mouth and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.
We have 2 ears, and 1 mouth - for a reason!
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Sept 4, 2018 6:43:51 GMT 10
I don't have heroes. I don't follow celebrities. I think most sports 'stars' need a swift kick up the backside. I don't care how many followers people have on twitter or instagram. I respect a few people but I only really admire one or two. The person I most admire is Weary Dunlop. IMO perhaps the greatest Australian ever. A true legend. He reluctantly accepted a knighthood, but he deserved a dozen VC's. As do I SA...when did explorers, statesmen (Im talking real leaders like Churchill or Teddy Roesevelt), soldiers stop being people to emulate in life...now the pitch to the young is how to be the highest paid, back stabbing CEO or sportsman who can change allegiance at the drop of a hat (or a missed bonus)... Aside from historical figures for me its the likes of Willy Apiata VC, a modern day warrior...
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remnantprep
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People do not exist for the sake of governments!
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Post by remnantprep on Sept 4, 2018 11:00:59 GMT 10
I do believe that there is a specific part of our brain that is wired for belief in God or the spiritual or the supernatural etc. If you are not worshipping a God etc you will worship a celebrity or sports star. Those celebrities give meaning to peoples lives and also someone to look up to and model ourselves on. For me personally in my life I try to model the teachings of Christ. "Love your neighbour as yourself!" "DO unto others as you would have them do unto you!" "He who is without sin let him cast the first stone!" "Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others.The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged."
SO i try to follow these rather than, "Wow I can wiggle my butt just like Miley Cyrus does!" or "I style my makeup the way the Kardashians do!"
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feralemma
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Post by feralemma on Sept 4, 2018 13:21:17 GMT 10
What about those of us who are atheists and also refuse to follow popular culture or worship any celebrity figure? Sure there are people that I admire and wish to emulate or even have half the talent or knowledge of (most certainly not any actor or sports "hero") but definitely do not worship them.
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Post by SA Hunter on Sept 4, 2018 17:33:56 GMT 10
What about those of us who are atheists and also refuse to follow popular culture or worship any celebrity figure? Sure there are people that I admire and wish to emulate or even have half the talent or knowledge of (most certainly not any actor or sports "hero") but definitely do not worship them. I saw a video on You Tube by a US Marine ( high ranking officer ) at a US College graduation. His speech was excellent. His main point " Just be a good human being". I think this covers all beliefs, regardless.
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