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Post by Ausprep on Jul 14, 2014 8:04:02 GMT 10
Source: thesurvivalmom.com/5-reasons-bugging-in-smart/ I have seen many articles and posts about bugging out should some major disaster happen. These writers go on and on about having Bug Out Bags (BOBs) and heading to their Bug Out Location (BOL) to hide away until it is safe. I can imagine several reasons why having a bug out plan is a good idea but honestly, it should be a last resort. If your immediate home is not threatened, staying put and “bugging in” should be the first option for several reasons. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide whether or not to hunker down or Bug Out, but consider the following reasons for staying in, at least at first. Why Bug IN? Higher security. You know the layout of your home. Most people feel safer in familiar surroundings. Knowing the quickest way through the house gives you an advantage of being able to get to a weapon before some intruder gets to you. If you are bugging out, you are out in the open and more vulnerable. You also know escape routes out of the home in case it is imminent that you will be overcome. Knowledge of the Neighborhood. Unless you just moved in last week, you know the immediate area around your home. Chances are you know what your neighbors look like, if not their names. You may even be close friends and that is very powerful. You can identify people who are new to the area. An armed stranger is more of a threat, generally speaking, than your next door neighbor. Having a group of ‘known’ people come together in a crisis raises everyone’s chance of survival. There are more eyes for security and more hands to do the work. Yes, there are more mouths to feed but also more people to acquire the food needed. Knowledge of Terrain Layout in Surrounding Area. Since most people commute, they know a rather large area out from their home. If you really stop and think about it, you can estimate the terrain – the cities, towns, and neighborhoods close to your home. All that knowledge will help you locate resources and avoid dangerous areas. Chances are pretty good that if an area had a high crime level before the disaster, it will be even higher and more desperate afterward. Home Base has more supplies and resources. There is no way you could pack all the items you need to survive and be as comfortable as possible in your car or on your back. Even if you focused solely on food and water, there is still no way you can carry what you need. If you bug in at home, you have more resources to get by. An example would be stuff in the junk drawer; you open it and find 2 adapters for charging some electronic you aren’t even sure you have anymore. What can that wire be used for, even if the power was out indefinitely? How about that end roll of duct tape? The bottom line is you are more adaptable in your own home with all your ‘stuff’ in one place. People who love you will look there first. Unless you are some hardcore survivalist and have a plan of action for your friends and family, the ones who love you will come to your house first to try and find you. It is truly the most logical place to start looking and head out from there, retracing steps if needed. If you do not know your neighbors or have a group to rely on, holding out for your loved ones to find you may be the very best option. Many people claim they will be the lone wolf, but that is unrealistic in my opinion. Eventually, even the lone wolf needs the pack. The same is true with humans. We need each other and people we can trust to make it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 18:41:03 GMT 10
Just thought I would throw this in as well! There is always a flip side!!! 5 Reasons Why “Bugging In” Will Kill You May 1st, 2014 shtfjournal.com/prepping/5-reasons-bugging-will-kill/For many of us, the option of bugging out is all but impossible. We might have small children or might even be physically unable to make any type of long hike to safety. We believe that bugging in (staying in our homes with all of our supplies while fortifying as well as possible) is our only option, but I believe this would end up being fatal. For those of you who are physically unable to bug out, this is not meant to be dispassionate, only realistic. The post-SHTF world will be an unforgiving and violent place, where only the strong and/or prepared will even have a slight chance for survival. This list of reasons why you should bug out is not a complete list, only what I consider the top 5 reasons why it is imperative that you figure out a way to get out of Dodge when all hell breaks loose. I’ll concede that if you live in a rural or isolated area, this article is not for you. This is for our brothers and sisters who live in cities or suburban areas. 1. Your neighbors will quickly figure out that you have supplies. We like to think that we have great relationships with our neighbors, but relationships only go so far when starvation and dehydration take into effect. Your neighbors will not starve to death quietly. They will get desperate and they will use whatever means they have in order to provide for their families. It is only a matter of time before it will become necessary for you to use violence against potential looters. As soon as you pull your trigger in an an urban environment you will have already killed yourself. Not only will it be evident that you have supplies and food, but the everyone around you will then realize you have weapons and ammunition. This might frighten them for short time, but when they get desperate enough they will try to make a play for your home. 2. Most homes couldn’t even stop a .22LR round. Gone are the days of log cabins or brick homes (more than just a facade on the front of the house). The modern home is made up of nothing but siding, ply wood, and dry wall; none of which can even stop the smallest caliber ammunition. A desperate refugee, looking for food, with nothing but a pistol can all but make mince meat out of your home. I agree that a smart person the wouldn’t use massive amounts of ammunition on an unscene foe, but remember, we are talking about starving refugees here. This is doubly relevant in the event of a large group of bandits or raiders. 3. Eventually you will need to grow your own food. The truth is that no matter how much you have prepared or how much stock of food and water you have, eventually your supplies will run out. Not only do most neighborhoods not have a good source of clean(ish) drinking water, but there are most likely no large open tracks of land for agriculture. Additionally, in the world where isolation is paramount, tending to even a small garden requires a lot of time outside, potentially exposing you and your loved ones to attack. 4. Neighborhoods will be one of the first targets for raiders after all sources off aid are expended. It is not unrealistic to think that gangs and criminals will groups up in large forging gangs. These groups will not necessarily be well armed (i.e. large amounts of ammunition), but most will have some weapons and a basic understanding of how to use them. These groups of people will swarm over urban areas like locust. To think otherwise will be setting yourself for a world of hurt. The people that will make up these gangs don’t respect human life right now. How do you think they will treat you and your loved ones in a world with no law or order? These group will probably be a threat in rural areas eventually, but they will be a threat almost immediately in urban areas. 5. In the case of martial law, there will be almost no way to hide in neighborhoods from government law enforcement. It is not out of the scope of reality to think that during a SHTF event that our government will make a last desperate play to maintain power. They will want a group people together in an effort to maintain control and a semblance of order. You do not want to be thrown in with large groups of desperate refugees. Does the Superdome, post-Katrina ring a bell? Unfortunately, if you live in neighborhoods you will be subject to illegal searches and/or internment. Most likely, even if you want to stay in your home, mandatory evacuations will make it impossible anyways. I know that bugging out isn’t possible for many of us, but I would like to stress to you that if there is any chance you can figure out a way to leave your home in the event that everything goes belly up, you should do it. The alternative will most definitely be fatal. You might be able to hold out for a few days, or a few weeks, or maybe even a couple months, but eventually it WILL kill you. I know the some of you will think that I’ve got some type of “Walking Dead” fantasy of what will happen when everything goes to shit, but this is based out of an understanding of what people are capable of in desperate situations. As I’ve said in previous articles, there’s nothing more dangerous than a desperate and starving human being. You must find a way to isolate yourself and your group from the general population during the initial culling of people. There will be time to rebuild society in the future, but in the meantime, survival of your group should be your only concern. |
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Post by Ausprep on Jul 14, 2014 19:04:46 GMT 10
Good post Doc!
As you said, there's always a con to your pro. Its about what decision suits you.
I know with my preps and the way im set up, bugging in could be done, bugging out i think for me would be more successful.
Just my 2c
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Post by StepfordRenegade on Jul 14, 2014 19:12:35 GMT 10
Bugging out wouldn't be our original plan... we've got nowhere to bug out to! Most of our friends and family live in heavily populated areas and we have small kids so unless it was a localised disaster we'd most likely stay put unless something changed and we felt we'd have better chances on the road.
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Post by Ausprep on Jul 14, 2014 19:15:06 GMT 10
Bugging out wouldn't be our original plan... we've got nowhere to bug out to! Most of our friends and family live in heavily populated areas and we have small kids so unless it was a localised disaster we'd most likely stay put unless something changed and we felt we'd have better chances on the road. We are in your average suburbia. In a localized issue (short term) we'd stay put but anything bigger, we are gone. |
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myrrph
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Post by myrrph on Jul 14, 2014 19:19:50 GMT 10
I am thinking. What would you consider an optimum GOOD bag? Since we talk about never coming back.
Seeds? Large Tarp? Water filtration systems? How many lighters, Fire Steel is enough?
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Post by StepfordRenegade on Jul 14, 2014 19:27:33 GMT 10
Bugging out wouldn't be our original plan... we've got nowhere to bug out to! Most of our friends and family live in heavily populated areas and we have small kids so unless it was a localised disaster we'd most likely stay put unless something changed and we felt we'd have better chances on the road. We are in your average suburbia. In a localized issue (short term) we'd stay put but anything bigger, we are gone. We just hope we'd pick the right time to bail, and not wait too long. That's a big risk. Plus, unless you have a good bug out location (and/or caches), you're going to have to resort to foraging & hunting to get food. The vast majority of us (including me) would most likely starve to death due to no practical experience. |
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Post by Ausprep on Jul 14, 2014 19:33:16 GMT 10
I am thinking. What would you consider an optimum GOOD bag? Since we talk about never coming back. Seeds? Large Tarp? Water filtration systems? How many lighters, Fire Steel is enough? We are in your average suburbia. In a localized issue (short term) we'd stay put but anything bigger, we are gone. We just hope we'd pick the right time to bail, and not wait too long. That's a big risk. Plus, unless you have a good bug out location (and/or caches), you're going to have to resort to foraging & hunting to get food. The vast majority of us (including me) would most likely starve to death due to no practical experience. The key to a successful bug-out is timing. I dont plan on relying on a single bag to get me OOD. We will be leaving with sufficient time to get everything i have put in place packed. Should we not get enough time, then things will be different. |
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Post by graynomad on Jul 14, 2014 20:03:32 GMT 10
I do not plan to BO because I suppose I already have, we live at our BOL. But of course my current location could become untenable for any one of many reasons so I have two vague plans, hit the road in the Landcsuiser and hit the bush on foot. The Cruiser idea may have legs if I can find a BOL before hand, and when I get time I want to scope out some places in the Kimberley, NT, or the Gulf. I already know a couple of spots but I need to really identify places with my SHTF glasses on. If I can learn some bush tucker skills I don't see why I couldn't live permanently up north. So while I could get up there in 2-3 days the trouble is that this is my plan B and I won't do this unless things are really tough where I am, by that time it may be too late to hit the road safely. Still I could probably get to the Kimberley on back roads even if things are bad. The "hit the bush on foot" plan is really a last resort. Sure with my current knowledge and level of preparedness I could spend a few weeks in the bush, more if I find a local BOL and cache some supplies, but after that then what? I'm not sure it's viable to live off the land around here, it may be but certainly up north would be better. Anyway these are not plans at this point, just vague ideas. For the time being I have enough to do setting up our current location. As for the contents of a GOOD bag, I need to think a lot about that, for example a single fire lighter should be more than enough because you should be able to make fire without one anyway (I haven't tried yet, but you should be able to  ) There is no way to carry all the things we think we need as modern people, I would look seriously at what 18th century "long hunters" and similar people carried, they did just this with very little, I would say a rifle, axe, knife, small tarp, wire, rope and food/water to last a few days or weeks at a pinch. After that you had better be able to hunt. When these absolute essentials are in the bag add some modern stuff like water filter, sleeping bag, tent etc. As I said this is something I need to think a lot about, but IMO (and off the top of my head) there is no modern tech that will help a lot, and unless you are a woodsman before STHF you won't last long enough after to make any difference. Seeds maybe, they weigh nothing and assuming you last long enough they can be put to good use, but really the blackfellas lived just fine without them, I'm really keen to learn bush tucker, it's all just growing there without any effort on my part. I know you are not in Oz Myrrhp so none of that may be much help to you, OTOH there must be local bush tucker available. |
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Post by Ausprep on Jul 14, 2014 20:09:26 GMT 10
Anyway these are not plans at this point, just vague ideas. I think you just hit the nail on the head graynomad. This sentence is spot on. whilst we all have our "plan" on what we will do, until it happens, they are all just a "vague idea" of what we might do. Plans change, and your absolute survival will be based on how you can change a plan to suit the situation. Roll with the punches so to speak. |
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Post by Frank on Jul 14, 2014 21:14:35 GMT 10
Have been thinking about this type of thing for a while and for our situation it would all depend on what the issue was, where it was and how long it may last. At the moment we could bug-in for a while and arealso fairly well set-up to bug out, but either way I need to improve on a few things.
For bugging in I need to increase my food stores (water isn't to bad) and also improve security. For bugging out I want (don't really need) to add a few things to my car, but need to sort, organise and improve our camping gear/bug out gear.
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Post by pheniox17 on Jul 14, 2014 21:26:02 GMT 10
this has to be one of the most debated topics out side Ford vs Holden or ar vs ak my opinion, they are both right, and both wrong my advice, plan a, b, and c (those that fail to plan, plan to fail) but plan in the broadest possible way and keep it simple stupid eg, Australia is invaded (scenario) bugging in will risk been a pow, or killed, or worse bugging out the risk of been killed goes through the roof, wile risk of capture goes down each event will have its unique set of plans, a lethal flu type of bug I would bug in... the point is you have to risk access each event, and expect one that you haven't planed for  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 8:36:45 GMT 10
Just my view!!! I still believe in financial problems in most of the free world, that will cause financial collapse, also war in the middle east, with the Muslims attacking Israel in force! For me this puts Australia in financial depression with commodities hard to get! And I still believe we will see NATO or foreign troops deployed here! As for bugging in or out, we made the decision to move to an isolated country area, over 160km from any major city and 20km from the largest town! As we believe on this site, it's about Preparedness, not being a "Prepper". So for us it is a life style change and learning how to be trainee homesteaders!!! Yes we have a long way to go, but your journey always starts with the first step!!! Even living here I still have contingency plans!!! Nothing is certain and as Murphy Law says "anything that can go wrong will go wrong". My heart and dream is to have a "Sanctuary" for family and friends!!! We can only afford up to 100 acres,and a couple of sheds, but will have room for people to build a shed for them and their family and help build up gardens and stock to live a comfortable life with safety and security! People have different reasons why they stay in the city, but the time before SHTF is closer than we think!!!! For those of us who can remember, this is me and Jinny...LOL |
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Post by graynomad on Jul 15, 2014 10:07:13 GMT 10
Hah, that takes me back. Do you chuck hay wearing a suit as well? Sounds like we are not only on the same page Gaz but reading the same paragraph as well We have 25 acres but it's very steep for the most part and not suitable for anything "useful" as the RE agent put it. That suits me just fine but limits the number of people it could support. I like the idea of hosting others post STHF, as we've mentioned elsewhere though it would be difficult in practice, but doable. I firmly believe you should get out of the cities as much as for a lifestyle choice as anything, but of course that's not feasible or even possible for many people and once TSHTF it's too late to set up a homestead in the bush. |
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Post by graynomad on Jul 15, 2014 10:52:53 GMT 10
"Greeeen Acres is the place for me..." Dang, now I can't get that stupid theme song out of my head |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:16:56 GMT 10
"Greeeen Acres is the place for me..." Dang, now I can't get that stupid theme song out of my head   Yep, Now is the time to move. Job,career, mortgage,kids in school... Why do we work all our lives to retire to what... I should have done this 30years ago!!!!! But life had it's claws in me and I lived like everyone else... To hell with the future.... Now my life is on the downward cycle...what if's  ? Well there is no what if's...Life is what we make it! We are the Masters of our own DESTINY!!!!! "Green Acres is the place form me..." |
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Post by sentinel on Jul 16, 2014 9:44:59 GMT 10
B.I or B.O?
This is one of the big questions I often see.
A lot depends on what the event is - how long we think it will be before life goes back to normal - if it will go back to normal - (if in an urban setting) what services have been disrupted garbage, water, sewage, power etc, - short term a few days to a week - PIA (pain in the arse time frame) to indefinite, then your situation could become critical rather quickly.
Dysentery, Typhus, Ross River Fever/Dengue and Fruit Bats (both more applicable for us in the north), rapid increase in rodent numbers, disease, nearby water sources can become contaminated, packs of dogs forced to fend for themselves, people starving and disease ridden looking forwhatever - think you can get the idea from these couple of examples that life will get very difficult even if you have masses of foodstuff stored.
This is another case of there is no right answer.
It depends a lot on what the event that is the threat is?
How long do you perceive this threat to last?
Are all of your party capable of leaving as a group?
Are any of the group/family members carrying any injuries/disabilities ATM?
Are we able to evac to our predetermined destination/location?
Can we go all the way by vehicle or by foot?
Again this list of questions will grow the more you dwell upon it as the scenarios will change plans. Like any emergency situation - plans/circumstances can change in less than minutes. To be truly successful you need the ability or have someone who's judgement is as near flawless as possible - to think on their feet - as even the best laid plans can quickly unravel and go to pieces with all the 'unforseen' variables that can and will come into play.
(You simply can't cover everything and you 'CANNOT' save everyone - but yourself and immediate family/group are a good starting point).
Another thing (which I see a few people pointing out is 'Get the Timing Right' - this is up to the individual group or group leader to decide and once you've committed to leave you more than likely will not be or be able to return) so, this is not the time for self doubt or second guess your decision - you or the group have elected to leave - do so - with no regrets.
There is one thing that I wonder if it has been factored in to this and that is your prime BOL might be prime today - and it's a fair bet others will think the same, be that for it's remoteness or close proximity to resources or other reasons - you chose it as the best spot - so will others.
If you are within an couple of hours of a major populated area - then I don't care how remote and secure you might think you are - if you chose this place I will bet others have scoped it out as a potential destination also.
Lets look at say - in 10 years time and the increase in population that will affect your plans(I will use my region and it's projected population growth estimates as I know these for an example):
In the last ABS figures released for persons living permanently just in our LGA: 19,788 persons.
I have seen projected figures that vary from 35,000 (min growth projection) up to 50,000(forecast max growth projection) by 2030.
Either figure is a marked increase in the current population.
With these numbers expected, and should they be reached then it is a fare assumption that many of these persons will still be active post SHTF situation and you can bet they all won't stay in urban areas - they will most likely head 'bush'.
How many can the Australian bushland seashore sustain in my area that is bountiful ATM - not even half these numbers based on todays population current figures IMHO.
This can result in rapid spread of disease - areas over hunted/fished. Eventually a status quo will be reached - when is the big question that no one can answer with surety.
So even our best laid plans may come unstuck from sheer human mass of numbers.
Personally - I have no idea which of the two options will be for me/us.
It will depend on a number of things all put together and then risk assessed.
Hopefully one of the multiple plans I have will be close enough to be applied to the situation to allow it to work for us.
We look ahead to plan for an uncertain future for sure.
Hopefully these plans will sit in the unused section - but it's good insurance to have them at the ready should they be needed.
And, Yeah - I reckon you pretty well nailed it with your statement 'Gray'
{Jul 14, 2014 at 8:03pm graynomad said:
Anyway these are not plans at this point, just vague ideas. }
Except I would have said "Anyway these are not plans at this point, just ideas for possibilities!"
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Post by squirrelbait on Jul 30, 2014 12:34:19 GMT 10
I'll be hunkering down. Reasons:
I have some health issues that make bugging out all but impossible.
I know the area and the resources.
I live out in a rural area. (Small town)
All my stuff is here.
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Post by wolfstar on Jul 30, 2014 12:46:03 GMT 10
For me it really depends. As I love in a rural town, certain things are less of a threat. In small towns, you're nobodies priority, either to attack or assist. But (always a but hey, lol) is rather big out than in because while I have a few gid neighbours, most in my area are scum. We have even had riots for goodness sake! Imagine if anything went down! Nope, me n mine will be long gone before they even consider looting my house. Already have most survival great we need, just working on thriving gear plus, I have a prep mate. If his family need to get out, I'd rather get out at the same time. Better to support each other from word go than wait till things get hairy where I am and joining them imho. |
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Post by squirrelbait on Jul 30, 2014 13:16:56 GMT 10
For me it really depends. As I love in a rural town, certain things are less of a threat. In small towns, you're nobodies priority, either to attack or assist. But (always a but hey, lol) is rather big out than in because while I have a few gid neighbours, most in my area are scum. We have even had riots for goodness sake! Imagine if anything went down! Nope, me n mine will be long gone before they even consider looting my house. Already have most survival great we need, just working on thriving gear plus, I have a prep mate. If his family need to get out, I'd rather get out at the same time. Better to support each other from word go than wait till things get hairy where I am and joining them imho. Yeah, I have some scummy neighbors as well. I'll be watching them like a hawk. I will deal with them accordingly. If they're smart they'll give me a wide berth. |
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