shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Apr 29, 2017 17:38:33 GMT 10
The scary bit is I would need to do about twenty times more to even start to come close to feeding myself. Indeed. I have spreadsheets galore with yields based on good growing conditions. I know the base line pretty well, understand the nutritional side, have a pretty good idea of the minimums needed. So then questions happen - Can the foods be stored and in bulk? Root crops do this to some extent if kept in a root cellar or cool and dark. There's other things like pumpkin and you can dry corn etc. You see why certain foods have become popular over the years, because they get you through winter! - Can you put a crop in the ground any time of the year? Winter has very little that grows well, and all grows slow. Turnip, carrot, lettuce/cabbage, how long do they take, obviously the 35-45 day turnips are going to take much longer! - What about all of the unknowns, disease, rainfall, soil quality-fertilizer, weeds, weather, theft... it's a long list. - What about knowledge, I've grown veggie patches for years, though growing a larger quantity, as you describe 20 times the normal size, are there going to be more problems? - What about having enough seed on hand? Who actually has enough seed? I keep a couple of tubs in the fridge with quantities that will get me a couple of years worth. Trouble is they degrade [slower in the fridge] and lose viability. So the plan is keeping them and adding newer seed to the vault. What are those varieties you have stored? Do you have enough KJ's coming from those crops, are they staple crops? Having 50g of true potato seed is a LOT of potential potato, having 50g of corn isn't. Do you have enough? - how do you keep the soil fertile? Many many questions. Whilst I see the advantage of giving yourself options with long term food supplies and more than likely food production will return, whatever the situation, it's worth noting and immediately having a way to supplement your diet, add vitamins to your diet and extend food supplies with at least something in the ground. Knowing you can take care of your own food supply indefinitely to my mind, the ultimate goal of prepping.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Apr 29, 2017 18:18:47 GMT 10
I think you are thinking inside the box too much, and over thinking the whole scenario. But what would I know . . .
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Post by Peter on Apr 29, 2017 19:52:14 GMT 10
I think you are thinking inside the box too much, and over thinking the whole scenario. But what would I know . . . Please share VegHead. I'm always keen for some alternate information. Heck, I'm keen on learning anything about gardening.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Apr 29, 2017 20:21:35 GMT 10
Para 1. Root crops are just fine left in the soil during winter, some even become sweeter. And you can always clamp them, no need for root cellars. Para. 2. Yes. And rubbish about little growing during winter. We have bananas ripening and we live in southern Vic. Poly tunnels, etc? Think season extension! Para 3. What about the unknowns? They will always be present regardless of conditions. Para 4. Use bio-intensive methods to increase yields with less area. Para 5. Some seeds will not store at all. Seed save your own. Para 6. By using methods that doesn't burn the soil out. See my comment re: para 4. In summary, work smarter and not harder/longer. Grow and max your yields during the peak harvest times for your 'crops' and preserve the harvest accordingly. We now spend only a few hours per week gardening. Growing our own fertility (not manures) has proved its worth also (Google Will Bonshall). Jodi Roebuck (NZ) has been another great resource. Sorry Shiny, but spreadsheets don't provide any calories for us Happy to be berated for any comment made above. Veg.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Apr 29, 2017 22:50:19 GMT 10
Ha. I very much welcome your knowledge and experience since you're living it. They are questions to know the answer to.
I'd love to see the veghead guide/advice for preppers regarding growing in an emergency. Obviously having some immediate and constant experience would be important for anyone, points on how to grow enough to eat if you had and possibly without a running tap etc?
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Apr 30, 2017 8:42:00 GMT 10
I'll answer the tap question straight away: we rarely water our vegetable crops even in the height of summer, and when we do they are fed by a gravity system from water collection points (tanks and barrels). It's all about building in resilience; grow only crops specific to your climate (maximises yields by NOT growing crops on spec … maximises growing area this way), deepen your soil first and not spread the growing area out (bio-intensive growing areas are 2/3rds less in area than a normal garden), use solar greenhouses against your north facing walls, use vertical integration, etc, etc. I'm a massive fan and believer in Permaculture, however, we don't do food forests. Why? Because we like to keep things small (think living life on a manageable scale first and foremost). The majority of you don't have acres of land, but most do have a suburban block. I advise you all to take a close look at Deep Green Permaculture in Melbourne. This guy shows just what's capable on a very small scale.
In a previous employment we worked as if we were in the 'zone' every day. So why not treat your food needs as if your were already in an emergency situation. This is how we sort of live; it creates literally hundreds of what-if dialogues every day for us. … to such an extent that many redundant edible plants and the like have been abandoned to the compost pile as they failed in either efficiency of calorie conversion per area required, unable to be stored/preserved, too labour intensive, etc.
The whole question of how to grow enough food in an emergency is just too subjective to even contemplate starting dialogue. Every one of us are in a different situation (land size, climate, zone, open or hidden). However with the advice forwarded regarding some (required?) reading and websites to visit I hope that I given you sufficient (excuse the pun) information to make your own judgements.
Finally, the most important lesson I have learnt is that a good system is both robust and resilient. A perfect example of this is when I broke my arm November last year. Our systems all provided us ample food on the table, water, etc, and even if the jobs became a little longer to complete because I was invalided really nothing much changed. Once soil is prepared properly it does not need to be dug over, having split and dried firewood years in advance means no axe work or collection, easily moved structures (chicken tractors) that can be moved when you are injured and are fully automated as well, etc, etc. And if it all gets too much reduce your labour. It will do wonders to your head! One final example is that our large cereal grain growing area was going to be too much for me with a wounded wing, so we deep ripped the area down to 700mm (I can drive a tractor left handed), and sowed the lot down to a green manure crop. Still a Win-Win: no bare ground and growing a beneficial cover crop that requires no harvesting, watering or anything. Now that's a load off my plate for six months and giving me time to heal.
Best to you all,
Veg.
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Post by Fractus on Apr 30, 2017 17:42:10 GMT 10
I cannot agree more. it is great to have a big system of food production but it can be a lot of work for little gain. i am slowly making things easier for us as there is always that broken wing event just around the corner.
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Post by Peter on Apr 30, 2017 20:52:39 GMT 10
I had a look at some of the Deep Green Permaculture website today. A lot of information so far...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 21:48:19 GMT 10
Hi all, Reading all the posts has me wishing I was back on my farm where space was not such as issue as where I am now in suburbia,but you work with what you got I guess. I was lucky to find a 'self sufficiency calendar' on line by Jackie French, it gives me ideas of what I should be doing in the garden all year around etc and I was going to post the link for you all, but has been taken down and is no longer free. I'm sure there must be others similar on line. I have printed a few copies for my various bug out bags etc so I'm the sort of gardener that needs guidance.
In regard to storing fresh produce, I brought a 350lt chest freezer just for that purpose as I could see no other way of doing it, it is set to minus 25 degrees and should keep contents good indefinitely. It has the new compressor and wall insulation and only draws 0.5KWH per day, it can hold over without power for 12 hours without eutectics as well. I have set things up so I can run the freezer off a car battery, solar panels or wind generator if I need too, so as to keep my options open. (I would recommend 350lt of freezer space per person if your considering that approach).
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on May 2, 2017 8:30:17 GMT 10
The answer to your first paragraph geek lies in my post above.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on May 2, 2017 10:10:00 GMT 10
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Post by doomsdayprepper4570 on May 3, 2017 21:01:58 GMT 10
Most of our veges died this summer as the 41 deg plus heat for over a month was just too much. The underground artichokes, peanuts, chillies, chives, okra and pineapples survived fine. All other softer veges died off even the melon vines, potatoes and pumpkins frazelled!
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on May 3, 2017 21:23:06 GMT 10
Bloody hell. Those types of temps will fry anything above ground . . . including us!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 19:25:07 GMT 10
VegHead Thank you for posting that link, it was a blast from the past to hear of David Holmgren again after all these years....it is good to know he is still going and writing books. David has an interesting story which we should all take notice of, as some years back practicing his Permaculture, him and his wife got very ill, seems their soil lacked magnesium and because their entire food production was from that land they eventually lacked magnesium too. I will not go into the symptoms but they are serious and as preppers we should be aware of living off land deficient in certain minerals is a health hazard.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on May 6, 2017 9:56:48 GMT 10
Excellent post Geek. I was with David just last month btw and he still doesn't quite look his age!
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Post by jo on Jun 13, 2017 18:28:38 GMT 10
Ripped out a patch of sweet potato the other day... some great to eat others not so much due to bugs....my neighbour is eying off my plantain (green bananas) hopefully if I give her enough she will give me banana pudding and banana bread yummo
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Post by doomsdayprepper4570 on Jun 17, 2017 13:18:01 GMT 10
Winter has been kinder! We have lettuce, beetroot for leaves, cabbage, spring onions, kiwi yams, garlic, kale, chillies and rocket. Snow peas are finally flowering as well. Bitter melons and new guinea butter beans are still producing too. Put about 1 tonne of rotted manure and old hay into the bottoms of the vege beds prior to planting out. Is a bit back breaking, but the veges grow well in winter and summer most years. The beds all have high organic material levels and are beautiful when rotary hoed ready for hilling and planting. I put the manure/muck under the topsoil to prevent plant burn caused by urine and fresh manure. Be pruning the grapes soon.
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Post by SA Hunter on Jun 18, 2017 22:33:47 GMT 10
Not much atm - mainly greens - silver beet, kale, plus radish & carrots. A mate of mine has about 100ac about 15km away, and a HUGE green house - he can grow as many as 400 tomatoes (he is my new best friend), as well as 70 Olive trees, plus more fruit trees.
I'll be growing some Siberian tomatoes in there, should be enough room, he's just planted 80 strawberry plants and 300 tomatoes.
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hd1340
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Post by hd1340 on Jun 19, 2017 21:15:21 GMT 10
A bit light on at the moment got spuds, silverbeet,manglewurzel,capsicum and tomatoes. Pulled the first of the manglewurzel today roasted them,didn't think they had much flavour, will try making fritter with the next ones.
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VegHead
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Post by VegHead on Jun 21, 2017 16:42:41 GMT 10
Same here, a bit light on. For the kitchen garden: potatoes, beetroots, garlic, carrots, three large beds of peas, broad beans for green manure, oats for green manure, radishes, and the last of the sweetcorn. The ducks are currently in the main orchard cleaning up and their very large yard has been sown down to a very mixed green manure planting. The chooks are on the 1/8 acre of a previous green manure crop doing their fertiliser, grubicide and insectide duties. One half an acre is down to Daikon radish. Sneakily planted out a large section of my road verge, hidden from road-view by a few trees, to a green manure patch and in turn we'll grow more cereal grains once the former crop has finished. Had no luck with germination this year of our Quinoa crop, so will try again next season.
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