remnantprep
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People do not exist for the sake of governments!
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Post by remnantprep on Jul 27, 2016 10:03:20 GMT 10
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Jul 27, 2016 12:50:34 GMT 10
The broken window theory of policing goes like this, if there's one broken window, you need to investigate it and try to get it sorted out because tomorrow there will be 2. The next day 3 and before you know it every window is broken. The Muslims are getting away with it which is embolding them to do more of it. France has areas that non-Muslims can't go for the most part, parts of Normandy being one of them. There's also a significant support base in France,
Postive attitude towards ISIS France - 27% 18-24, 22% 25-34, 20% 35-44 - pew research
Muslim support for suicide bombing [all/18-29] France - 35%/42%
This suggests it's very much the 'normal' way of thinking for French Muslims. The fact that these figures for fear of creating problems has worsen the whole situation, conversations could have had been held early to sort this crap out. The way it's going, because of the misinformation, we are more likely to see the Europeans fighting back with violence, there's only so much they will tolerate, as I have said elsewhere, Europeans are very very nice... until they're not and they're very very violent. I would really prefer that not to happen.
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myrrph
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trying to figure out how to change my nick :P
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Post by myrrph on Jul 28, 2016 11:23:22 GMT 10
the sad thing is from what i know about Islam, Muhd himself forbade the killing to religious of all religions.
he also forbade the killing of anyone on holy grounds.
Again, the distortion of religion for a worldly purpose.
sad.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Jul 28, 2016 12:51:18 GMT 10
the sad thing is from what i know about Islam, Muhd himself forbade the killing to religious of all religions. he also forbade the killing of anyone on holy grounds. Again, the distortion of religion for a worldly purpose. sad. 1) “But that whoever would not seek the Lord ... should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.” 2) “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.” 3) “Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.” I would disagree.
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myrrph
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trying to figure out how to change my nick :P
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Post by myrrph on Jul 28, 2016 13:17:48 GMT 10
the sad thing is from what i know about Islam, Muhd himself forbade the killing to religious of all religions. he also forbade the killing of anyone on holy grounds. Again, the distortion of religion for a worldly purpose. sad. 1) “But that whoever would not seek the Lord ... should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.” 2) “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.” 3) “Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.” I would disagree. of course you would. cherry picking scripture (of any religion) to justify means is exactly what happened to Christ when he was tempted whilst in the desert alone. Where Satan attempted to tempt Christ using scripture. 'nuff said. last post.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Jul 28, 2016 14:54:31 GMT 10
If this were in the religious section, I'd not comment, however it's not there.
Islam had a great early period, where they were out in front in the world, they held high the values of liberalism [aka personal liberty, not how it's been perverted in todays age] and welcomed all religions and people in a wonderful and highly successful melting pot. There are still of course many/most that act this way. There is however many who don't follow those teachings.
Lets look at facts, pew research.
Postive attitude towards ISIS France - 27% 18-24, 22% 25-34, 20% 35-44 Germany - 3% 18-24, 4% 25-34, 3% 35-44 Great Britain - 4% 18-24, 6% 25-34, 11% 35-44
Muslim support for suicide bombing [all/18-29] France - 35%/42% Spain - 25/29% Great Britain - 24/35% Germany 13/22% US - 13/26%
Britian 100% of British Muslims find sexuality unacceptable 52% want it to be illegal Nearly a quarter (23%) supported the introduction of sharia law in some areas of Britain, and 39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”
That's a great deal of people who don't agree with liberal values. Lets not make the mistake that they automatically share the liberal values that they used to or to which we in a Western culture hold highly. Some do, for sure. They're my friends, I'm a big fan of Professor ibrahim al-buleihi consequently. [wish I had translation of more of his stuff!]
--- According to their own doctrine [and I'm a newbie at understanding], the later scriptures are more accurate, where it deals with much more with these kinds of responses. To my mind that's hardly a surprise, he was a warlord who raped children lets remember. What if he wasn't a prophet of god and everyone's following a book created by such a man in a place of delusion, desire to control and megalomania? [as an aetheist that's very much how I see it]
Going back to what I quoted, even if they're cherry picked [and most were later in the book btw], what makes them invalid if the book is the final word of Allah? If anything that illustrates the point, you claim that its not that religion and yet people act and as we see above support those actions? We have different sects of the same religion fighting each other to death over the interruptions within the book, very much akin to the European Religious wars.
So yes, of course it's cherry picking, though it very much illustrates the point that it's open to interpretation and your claim of "Again, the distortion of religion for a worldly purpose." might be true of some, though of course that's not all nor is it necessarily most. Again, it's a mistake to assume so looking at the evidence of support of what we would consider as immorality.
I want us all to live in peace and highlighting the problems, aka the truth 'is' the way to it, not saying it doesn't exist that has happened for way too long. I don't generally hate people [or groups of people], I hate immoral ideas and what becomes of those bad ideas. If religion wants to kill innocent people and there's words in their book that justify it, then I bring into question the book itself being all true, for it can't be both.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Jul 28, 2016 15:02:59 GMT 10
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Jul 28, 2016 15:14:55 GMT 10
I don't care if he was or wasn't. I only care about the validity of ideas.
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Post by PlanZ on Jul 28, 2016 19:07:31 GMT 10
This is an important discussion to have. No doubt it can be a tough one though - whatever position you take you run the risk of being judged, whether that be as xenophobic, anti-islam or ignorant.
But despite the risk of expressing an opinion isn't this actually a very relevant topic and a very relevant forum to be discussing it?
It's not really a religious discussion, but one relating to potential threat. And that threat exists not only from some elements of Islam, but also from the response these elements provoke.
It's just as unhelpful to downplay a threat as it is to amplify fear unnecessarily. Clearly there is a threat - though perhaps the degree is debatable. I'd argue that the debate is worth having!
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