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Post by PlanZ on Aug 21, 2016 23:05:13 GMT 10
Just read an interesting article called The War on Cash
This to me is another layer (and potential point of failure) in the intricate and precarious house of cards our modern society has become. All the more reason to keep a supply of physical money on hand. Sure there may be circumstances when money of any kind becomes worthless, but I can imagine many more scenarios where it still has value but is simply unusable or inaccessible in its electronic form. |
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Post by Joey on Aug 21, 2016 23:11:18 GMT 10
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shinester
Senior Member
China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Aug 22, 2016 7:16:54 GMT 10
I'm no economist, not expert in this area by any stretch. For me, I'm more worried about debt becoming worthless. If you can't make money from debt, and everyone realizes it, there will be certainly a run on cash as Credit cards will be useless and possibly money deposited in banks because there's no 'actual' money to represent it. You can't pull out money from the ATMs because everyone's already done that and all the cash in circulation is out there already, yet demand [because we can't do it electronically] is still high for the cash, causing negative inflation for the 'real' money and crazy inflation for the electronic money. Think about long weekends and how quickly ATMs empty, imagine everyone pulling out money and how little time that would take. So people in business will switch to real money and demand that so they know they will get paid, which of course will mean that many business will start to fail, food might not be transported etc. I can see how it's possible, though I also admit my lack of knowledge in this area.
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Post by PlanZ on Aug 23, 2016 17:41:05 GMT 10
Key points from the article:
In a cashless society (where we are very clearly heading): "You'd have no choice but to conform to the intermediaries' automated bureaucracy, giving them a lot of power, and a lot of data about the microtexture of your economic life."
"Every cash transaction you make is one that a payments intermediary like Visa takes no fee from, so it has an interest in making cash appear redundant, deviant and criminal. "
Visa's stated mission: "...long term strategy is to make cash 'peculiar' by 2020."
Visa is joined (obviously) by MasterCard, PayPal etc etc in pushing the benefits of going cashless and positioning physical money as antiquated and perverse.
Clearly there ARE many benefits.
Problem is that no-one is presenting the cons of a cashless society. There is no-one arguing on the side of cash, because no one stands to gain anything from taking such a stand.
The government position could be summed up as: "apart from facilitating crime and tax evasion, cash hampers central banks from setting negative interest rates. In the absence of cash, everyone must keep their money in the form of digital bank deposits. During recessions central banks could then use the banking system to deliberately corrode people's deposits via negative charges, 'inspiring' them to spend rather than hoard."
"Unlike a battle fought using violence, hegemony is the assertion of power by getting people to believe in it, to see it as inevitable, unassailable and normal. Visa's four-year plan is one such exercise, and once we've internalised it, we'll choose to build their power. We'll feel strangely comforted by the MasterCard billboard endorsed by the Mayor of London. We'll find ourselves downloading ApplePay like a dazed child accepting a gift."
"The proclaimed Death of Cash is an episode in the broader drama that is the Death of Privacy, the death of breathing room, and the death of informal, non-measured, unaccounted-for behaviour. Every action you take must forever be attached to your digital persona, dragging with it a data trail extending back to the day you were born."
"Imagine automatic flagging systems triggered by anyone engaging in a combination of transactions deemed subversive. "
And even the private intermediaries have a say in how you spend your money - like Visa, PayPal and MasterCard attempting to choke WikiLeaks by refusing to process people's donations.
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Post by PlanZ on Aug 23, 2016 18:22:38 GMT 10
I can see a cash black market economy thriving in a cashless society. Problems is, if we keep cash we can buy only until our private cash reserve runs out. We need something to sell for cash to replenish our own cash supply. Right. I think it's an interesting turn of events. People worry about hyper-inflation making money worthless (as has happened many times through history) But this brings new risks - you may be the owner of a sum of money, but not truly in control of it. In digital form - existing only as data on a bank computer system - your access to your own money can be restricted or eliminated. How much simpler when you only had to safeguard your wallet from thieves! Digital money can be wiped out, or at least made inaccessible in the blink of an eye. And it doesn't even require a complete societal or economic collapse. |
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tails
Full Member
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Post by tails on Aug 23, 2016 19:53:01 GMT 10
so basically the upshot is...
put more under the mattress... just in case...
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Post by Peter on Aug 23, 2016 21:12:04 GMT 10
Key points from the article: In a cashless society (where we are very clearly heading): "You'd have no choice but to conform to the intermediaries' automated bureaucracy, giving them a lot of power, and a lot of data about the microtexture of your economic life." "Every cash transaction you make is one that a payments intermediary like Visa takes no fee from, so it has an interest in making cash appear redundant, deviant and criminal. " Visa's stated mission: "...long term strategy is to make cash 'peculiar' by 2020." Visa is joined (obviously) by MasterCard, PayPal etc etc in pushing the benefits of going cashless and positioning physical money as antiquated and perverse. Clearly there ARE many benefits. Problem is that no-one is presenting the cons of a cashless society. There is no-one arguing on the side of cash, because no one stands to gain anything from taking such a stand. The government position could be summed up as: "apart from facilitating crime and tax evasion, cash hampers central banks from setting negative interest rates. In the absence of cash, everyone must keep their money in the form of digital bank deposits. During recessions central banks could then use the banking system to deliberately corrode people's deposits via negative charges, 'inspiring' them to spend rather than hoard." "Unlike a battle fought using violence, hegemony is the assertion of power by getting people to believe in it, to see it as inevitable, unassailable and normal. Visa's four-year plan is one such exercise, and once we've internalised it, we'll choose to build their power. We'll feel strangely comforted by the MasterCard billboard endorsed by the Mayor of London. We'll find ourselves downloading ApplePay like a dazed child accepting a gift." "The proclaimed Death of Cash is an episode in the broader drama that is the Death of Privacy, the death of breathing room, and the death of informal, non-measured, unaccounted-for behaviour. Every action you take must forever be attached to your digital persona, dragging with it a data trail extending back to the day you were born." "Imagine automatic flagging systems triggered by anyone engaging in a combination of transactions deemed subversive. " And even the private intermediaries have a say in how you spend your money - like Visa, PayPal and MasterCard attempting to choke WikiLeaks by refusing to process people's donations. Although some would possibly consider this to verge on the side of "conspiracy theory", I think this is one of the most realistic and important posts I've seen in a long time- with one exception: "There is no-one arguing on the side of cash, because no one stands to gain anything from taking such a stand." I disagree - individuals stand to gain from this stand. The problem is that those who control the world's electronic transactions don't, and they have the power to control what's done, and what's said by the mainstream media. I'd love to see the sources of the quotes you provided. |
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Post by thereth on Aug 23, 2016 21:28:26 GMT 10
this is why i think developing a good "barter"network NOW is a must. I already exchange my IT services for goods/services depending on my customers profession.
I will even be looking at trading some of the pigs for other animals once my breeding pair start pumping out youngens.
Bartering and trading of goods / services is the best way to stay under the radar and I believe gives you a fairer and more realistic value of your items or time.
In saying that it takes a while to develop that level of trust with people and thats why I think we need to start now.
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Post by Joey on Aug 23, 2016 21:40:13 GMT 10
Too true reth. I offer that now with my custom gear. If there's something I want/need and I post on forums etc in the wanted section, I put a note that I'm willing to trade custom made gear as part payment. I'm yet to have someone take up the offer, bit it's always there.
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Post by PlanZ on Aug 23, 2016 22:02:28 GMT 10
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Post by frontsight on Aug 23, 2016 23:20:42 GMT 10
If a country is to go cashless, nothing we can do about it really. BUT as stated above by others we can at least build up on bartering stock. Don't even think of War and new world order, all it takes is for the power to go out for a few hours and you will feel the effect.
When I was in South Africa, we had black out very often, the petrol station/stores with back up generators would only deal in cash so I have learnt to carry at least enough money for 3 tanks of petrol, a night in a motel and some food. I have to say, when the grid is down, people from developed countries will suffer first.... Well many developing countries have population without running water and electricity in some areas, think they will not freak out when the internet is down for a few days.....
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Post by Peter on Aug 24, 2016 15:57:36 GMT 10
Thanks PlanZ - that's great. |
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