shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 14, 2016 17:04:32 GMT 10
Ziggy, I would agree. Unfortunately I found out that you can't bring in antibiotics for my poor fish and your fish's lives rest on randomness of inspection.
The Democrats make false allegations that upset Russia, that of trying to influence the election and then you have this clown saying to vote for Trump or there's going to be war. That's not exactly helpful to Trump's position as it only helps the Democrats get in their criminal.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 14, 2016 21:55:56 GMT 10
Over zealous, perhaps, though he makes points that I can agree with that it's not the one thing that's happening, rather it's the multiple small 'data points' as he describes. He says to start shoveling, myself? I'm not quite there. I really hope I've just got caught up in some nonsense, just a bit tricky based on the information.
Joe [above] suggests that tensions are like they were during the cold war and whilst not at the level of Cuban missile crisis, which was about as close as it got to all out nuclear war, I think it's problematic and as a prepper my radar is tuned to the possible dangers.
With the evidence that is there, what are the conclusions. For me personally I'm 1 minute ahead of the 'doomsday clock' at 2mins to midnight with these events and I'm going to ramp up a few projects I've been researching and planning the main one includes getting an extra year in rolled oats and condensed milk. I was doing them anyhow and speeding them up won't change much other than giving me more time if I need it as events unfold [or dissipate]. What this ultimately is, is perhaps thought of as a reminder to square away your most necessary preps, typically water/food, relax and enjoy life.
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Post by graynomad on Oct 14, 2016 23:22:40 GMT 10
There's a LOT of scuttlebutt going around about this lately, I wouldn't put it past "them" to start something big.
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Post by PlanZ on Oct 14, 2016 23:30:50 GMT 10
Ziggy, I would agree. Unfortunately I found out that you can't bring in antibiotics for my poor fish and your fish's lives rest on randomness of inspection. The Democrats make false allegations that upset Russia, that of trying to influence the election and then you have this clown saying to vote for Trump or there's going to be war. That's not exactly helpful to Trump's position as it only helps the Democrats get in their criminal. It's not exactly the Democrats making those allegations (though for obvious reasons they are repeating them). In fact it is the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Homeland Security. See below: Joint Statement from the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security Release Date: October 7, 2016 DHS and ODNI Seals For Immediate Release DHS Press Office Contact: 202-282-8010 The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities. Some states have also recently seen scanning and probing of their election-related systems, which in most cases originated from servers operated by a Russian company. However, we are not now in a position to attribute this activity to the Russian Government. The USIC and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) assess that it would be extremely difficult for someone, including a nation-state actor, to alter actual ballot counts or election results by cyber attack or intrusion. This assessment is based on the decentralized nature of our election system in this country and the number of protections state and local election officials have in place. States ensure that voting machines are not connected to the Internet, and there are numerous checks and balances as well as extensive oversight at multiple levels built into our election process. Nevertheless, DHS continues to urge state and local election officials to be vigilant and seek cybersecurity assistance from DHS. A number of states have already done so. DHS is providing several services to state and local election officials to assist in their cybersecurity. These services include cyber “hygiene” scans of Internet-facing systems, risk and vulnerability assessments, information sharing about cyber incidents, and best practices for securing voter registration databases and addressing potential cyber threats. DHS has convened an Election Infrastructure Cybersecurity Working Group with experts across all levels of government to raise awareness of cybersecurity risks potentially affecting election infrastructure and the elections process. Secretary Johnson and DHS officials are working directly with the National Association of Secretaries of State to offer assistance, share information, and provide additional resources to state and local officials. |
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 15, 2016 2:13:51 GMT 10
Yeah, DNC have been saying it for quite a lot longer than this very resent release, my understanding was previously they had mentioned that Russians had hacked a completely different network and we all know that's rather routine and the US are the biggest hackers/watchers of all. I can't help but have some level of distrust for US government departments after the FBI/DOJ fiasco with Hillary. Here they're not saying there's evidence, rather wording it carefully to say 'consistent with' which is no evidence what so ever, rather it's attempting to elude people into make a conflation/connection. I see that as a very deliberate attempt to distort opinion, because most people don't pick up on the use of language too well. At any rate none of that matters because it's the claim made by a certain Ruskie that there's a connection on the two and the most important thing is it doesn't matter, much like if a thief dobs in a murderer, we're not going to chase the thief before the murderer. Aka, one is actually important to the election the other is a slight-of-hand/distraction. In terms of personality, in Clinton we have a pathological liar, one of the more extreme ones I've seen, even for a politician. Their actions are typically without much interest in what it means and doing anything to maintain whatever it is that they want to do, to never feel remorse or regret, to never think they do anything wrong and this kind of personality can be incredibly destructive and vicious. I think the rumblings on the radar might be excessive, fake or perhaps not, I can't say, here's an example.  If you look at the date and time of the bottom one, that's 9.52am on Wed in the US. It 'seems' to be before the allegations were made public, which were that evening as far as I can tell, though that's not indicative of insider knowledge or proof of truth, they could have just as easily been ramblings from someone who's made guesses. Does it make it credible? Not really. It might start looking credible if in a few days or weeks if the predictions start panning out and/or if the Russian thing escalates more suddenly. |
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 15, 2016 4:19:16 GMT 10
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 15, 2016 5:15:29 GMT 10
Was a couple of days ago, though perhaps a de-esculation is on the cards? I hope so. Yes it's RT, so I have some skepticism of anything they say either way. ------------------ So, emails to which there's no 'actual' evidence to suggest was Russian based [it's more likely to be Anonymous the hacking group as they've posted some warnings about War that I pretty much thought was conspiracy theory at the time] and we have the president saying he's considering a 'proportional' response. What I find most interesting is that there's no denial of the emails, to which speaks to their authenticity. So, if wikileaks actually had emails that might put Obama and Hillary in Jail, I suppose war would distract people enough? It's all a bit speculative for me, suffice to say I'm keeping an eye on this one. ------------ MOSCOW -- The Russian Foreign Ministry says that the United States is conducting a “scorched earth” policy in relation to Russia during the final months of Barack Obama’s presidency. Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told reporters Thursday that “this is very dangerous.” - source |
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 15, 2016 12:43:15 GMT 10
Unfortunately the 'glow' dissipates fairly quickly and you just know I've got spreadsheets on it, like a dam nerd. Never the less people might like to understand this topic a little better, I sure didn't understand it a little while ago. Looking below we have an approximate rad rate or the worst kind of fallout that I could get figures on, aka 3000 rads in 96hrs, the figures coming from 15 Megaton Castle Bravo in Bikini Atoll and dumping fallout on a bunch of islanders after it made more boom than was expected. For scale, most of the Russian warheads are 800kt, so less material, though there's potentially cobalt bombs though I digress. Of course multiple fields might change these figures, perhaps some overlapping amplifying these figures. 
To give you a gauge on what the numbers mean. 0 - 5 rem received in a short period or over a long period is safe—we don’t expect observable health effects. 5 - 10 rem received in a short period or over a long period is safe—we don’t expect observable health effects. At this level, an effect is either nonexistent or too small to observe. 10 - 50 rem received in a short period or over a long period—we don’t expect observable health effects although above 10 rem your chances of getting cancer are slightly increased. We may also see short-term blood cell decreases for doses of about 50 rem received in a matter of minutes. 50 - 100 rem received in a short period will likely cause some observable health effects and received over a long period will increase your chances of getting cancer. Above 50 rem we may see some changes in blood cells, but the blood system quickly recovers. 100 - 200 rem received in a short period will cause nausea and fatigue. 100 - 200 rem received over a long period will increase your chances of getting cancer. 200 - 300 rem received in a short period will cause nausea and vomiting within 24-48 hours. Medical attention should be sought. 300 - 500 rem received in a short period will cause nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea within hours. Loss of hair and appetite occurs within a week. Medical attention must be sought for survival; half of the people exposed to radiation at this level will die if they receive no medical attention. 500 - 1,200 rem in a short period will likely lead to death within a few days. >10,000 rem in a short period will lead to death within a few hours. So in the worst spots, after 3.5 months the radiation levels will be about the same as the upper levels of a radiation worker and lower than Ramsar in Iran is right now. Yes people live there. There's some issues with radioactive elements being ingested though again that depends on dose as everyone has radioactive potassium in us. The reason to have a shelter in such a situation is to reduce the dose by 1/1000th [90cm of earth] and if you look at the table you can see what a difference that would make, instead of 3000 rem you would get 3 rem. You can also see that the dose you get after 2 weeks if you slept in it and didn't receive any [or much] before. That is, whilst you ought to limit your exposure, it is probably time to do things outside such as taking a layer of topsoil off and relocating or better still if you're in that area, to relocate. |
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 16, 2016 5:37:33 GMT 10
www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cia-prepping-possible-cyber-strike-against-russia-n666636That's fairly disturbing, 'just' to distract the population from the wikileak dump, perhaps the 'hint' from the message boards isn't false, perhaps Obama has something to hide as it's well known he's no fan of Hillary. If he's going to make a concerted soft attack on Russia, you know the country with 7800 ready to go nuclear weapons and has told them, that is they know it's coming and who's doing it and Putin isn't exactly the greatest of guys, then oh what joy.
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Post by PlanZ on Oct 16, 2016 17:47:08 GMT 10
Or perhaps Russia *was* responsible for the hacks.
Perhaps there is in fact no government conspiracy - the matter is just as the government security experts say it is.
And if so, a response from the US government would be entirely warranted, and possibly overdue.
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Post by SA Hunter on Oct 16, 2016 18:18:23 GMT 10
An oldie, but very interesting viewpoint here.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 16, 2016 19:28:39 GMT 10
Or perhaps Russia *was* responsible for the hacks. Perhaps there is in fact no government conspiracy - the matter is just as the government security experts say it is. And if so, a response from the US government would be entirely warranted, and possibly overdue. Sure. Ok, if it's true then why is it warranted? The US government have far more surveillance than any other country and wikileaks famously put that information out there, which he is wanted for trumped up rape charges for a 3 some with 2 girls. The UN has said so. It's also obvious, when you think about it. Is it warranted that Australia attack the US for what is rather routine operations against us? Is it particularly wise to do so with Tensions so high? Why advertise it, you're just giving them time to prepare? Clearly it's for a political agenda, in fact that's unquestionable and it's got a lot to do with desperation in light of the torrent of wikileaks releases that dam both Obama and Hillary. The things you missed... and why the distraction is so import to them. I am rather concerned about the length at which Obama will go to cover it up, just the first 1.17 is enough, though it does go on. Also, if you pay attention to the language used by the intelligence community, they initially said [I've seen only 2 short reports], Russian interests have breached security and it was referring to something else entirely. Clinton used this and misappropriated the context to imply the connection. It's also something that every government does all of the time, the US being the greatest watchers of all. Then there's a more recent statement again, no 'specific' clarification, what they said was along the lines of it was consistent with what they might do in terms of gathering information. That is there's been no direct correlation, the language matters and the hints are meant to get you to believe it, yet not admit falsehood. This is important. I also get that I understand the use of language better than most people as it's a big part of my career. The only people who said it in fact were Clinton and Obama and then we have the media who have been shown to be in cohorts running with it, and this is important, instead of the wikileaks. No serious bipartisan journalist believes it. This is all about smoke for the American people, and my main issue here is that it's threatening world peace, particularly in light of the strained relationships already. Another angle is the claim that covert action will be taken. Err... if it's covert, nobody knows. Last angle, Wikileaks have always told the truth, they have a 10 year track record of it. They also say that the Russians aren't involved. They don't reveal their sources and this the first time they have even said who 'didnt' do it. They are one of the only positions that have earned my trust for quality information, compare that with what else is out there, as wikileaks call it, pristine information. Nobody has really doubted their facts. People were upset that their 10th birthday didn't have a bombshell on Hillary and yet that was a story conjured up by Roger Stone, an unreliable republican manipulator. |
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Post by PlanZ on Oct 16, 2016 22:41:53 GMT 10
Don't interpret my brief posts as meaning I need schooling on these matters shinester - I don't. I can assure you I'm as well read on the issues as anyone else. But I'm purposely not going to engage in a debate here. And purposely not writing a thousand words to negate your position. Why? Because I suspect that both your analysis and anything I might write can serve only to preach to the converted. That said, I don't think it serves the forum for your position to stand with no challenge whatsoever. I wouldn't like you to believe that silence from all quarters equals agreement. So with respect, I disagree. Personally I'm comforted by the fact that Trump is doing such a fine job of turning off the swing voters (and members of his own party). That he can do this even in the face of the Wikileaks reveals is quite an achievement really. |
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 17, 2016 2:02:54 GMT 10
Hey bud, thank you for your response.
Don't interpret my brief posts as meaning I need schooling on these matters shinester - I don't.
- nah, I think you came to the wrong conclusion of my intent, instead my intent was to present my case and how I came to my conclusions and how they disagreed with your position, it's all very adult like. I am very much for you sharing or schooling me about your position if you so desire, I could be wrong and happy to be.
I can assure you I'm as well read on the issues as anyone else.
- Lets just assume you're more read and I for one welcome your perspective.
But I'm purposely not going to engage in a debate here. And purposely not writing a thousand words to negate your position.
- Sure, though you 'are' engaging in a disagreement with my position, is that not a debate? In terms of the words you bring, that's your call. I welcome them all the same.
Why? Because I suspect that both your analysis and anything I might write can serve only to preach to the converted.
- Nah, I hope the members of the forum are fairly independently minded, they seem to be. Suspecting is not knowing. If you like I would happily assume your position, in effect plays devils advocate to my own position. Us against the converted, I'm beholden only to the truth in the end and happy to explore perspective, just give me the word.
That said, I don't think it serves the forum for your position to stand with no challenge whatsoever. I wouldn't like you to believe that silence from all quarters equals agreement. So with respect, I disagree.
- I'm not sure you can talk 'for the forum', though I can agree that I'd hate for nobody to challenge my position. The thing is you haven't really, you've disagreed and given an alternative position without the context to substantiate it. All smoke and mirrors thus far. I'm sure you have the substance, and all of the details and I'd like to consider your position, I can't do that so well if I don't know how you came to those conclusions or what evidence you base it on.
Personally I'm comforted by the fact that Trump is doing such a fine job of turning off the swing voters (and members of his own party). That he can do this even in the face of the Wikileaks reveals is quite an achievement really.
- not sure on the relevance here, could you explain the connection?
Ultimately it doesn't really matter 'who' is creating this tension, what matters is that the tension exists and worth keeping an eye on.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 18, 2016 23:58:26 GMT 10
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 19, 2016 6:07:35 GMT 10
An interesting round up. Some of the sources as listed above may be questionable, doesn't mean that all of the info is. This is important to understand.
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Oct 19, 2016 10:19:29 GMT 10
It comes as no surprise to me that we conclude that the media can't be trusted to tell the truth, whether it be because they like to sensationalise / beat up a story, or put forth a viewpoint biased towards a vested interest
Whether it be nuclear war/ emp / solar flare/ economic collapse/ pandemic etc etc whatever catastrophe happens, I regard the preparations involved to be fairly similar
That is - food water shelter protection (family vital)
Both storage and ongoing resupply
While I consider myself as a situationally aware Prepper I certainly don't spend every waking hour looking at solar activity etc, nor dive into the bunker when some turkey on the media says we are all going to die!
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Post by thereth on Oct 19, 2016 13:31:15 GMT 10
In the 1980's I was reading an article in Playboy magazine (bought only for that article, honestly), about preppers in America. The focus was on a small group who had bugged out to some rural land they had bought, and who reacted to every car driving up the winding road by rushing to prepared ambush positions. I wonder if they are still running to those positions every time a car approaches. I was thinking about this the other day, i wwas wondering if there are families or groups people that 'escaped' Y2K, 2012 etc and are living under the assumption the whole wprld is screwed |
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tyburn
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Post by tyburn on Oct 19, 2016 15:03:58 GMT 10
I work with about a dozen Russians, also a Ukrainian and a girl from one of the former USSR "stans". As much as the Western media says these countries all hate each other etc, they all get on well. When I asked about Putin's supposed edict for everyone to return to the motherland, they rolled their eyes, said the first they heard of it was after it was reported in the Western media and then said they would only be going back for their usual short vacations there. Do they fear a war? I don't know. I do know they don't take either Russian or western media at face value, as the former is more and more controlled by the state, while the latter has a decided bias in most countries (whether right or left wing doesn't matter; it's all propaganda).
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Post by frontsight on Oct 19, 2016 15:22:13 GMT 10
I work with about a dozen Russians, also a Ukrainian and a girl from one of the former USSR "stans". As much as the Western media says these countries all hate each other etc, they all get on well. When I asked about Putin's supposed edict for everyone to return to the motherland, they rolled their eyes, said the first they heard of it was after it was reported in the Western media and then said they would only be going back for their usual short vacations there. Do they fear a war? I don't know. I do know they don't take either Russian or western media at face value, as the former is more and more controlled by the state, while the latter has a decided bias in most countries (whether right or left wing doesn't matter; it's all propaganda). most groups who are "hostile" to each other get on pretty well when they are overseas..... the Indians and Pakistanis, Iraqi and Persians, chinese and Japanese, Black and white south africans... maybe we should all take a gap year.... the world will be a better place |
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