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Post by ziggysdad on Oct 8, 2016 21:50:39 GMT 10
I did a quick search and noted that there hasn't been any real discussion regarding BioLite in over 18 months www.bioliteenergy.comDefinitely thinking about bout getting one of these...just trying to decide between the camping version and the base camp model.
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Post by Peter on Oct 8, 2016 21:53:04 GMT 10
Oh my... that's the type of online store in which I could bankrupt myself.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 9, 2016 14:42:55 GMT 10
I consider this to be an unremarkable product, due to it's cost [$200] versus generation at 2W at most with diminishing output due to needing temperature differences, as it heats up you get less output. This is why it hangs out to one side, away from the fire to give it the best chance, it will never the less heat up and lose some [not all] of it's output. It's also heavy about about 1.1kg. If you kept it lit 24/7, it might make 10-30Wh/day. There are some applications in which it might be useful, such as charging at night by a campfire. There's also a wind turbine that I looked at just today actually. Seemingly unavailable for purchase as yet, 5W output with 18kmh winds, will have issues at ground level and your daily output is hard to know [I'm unfamiliar with how much of the day has enough wind] though I would guess you'd get a similar output as above and below [which is why I'm showing them together]. I see some potential uses, though again solar seems better due to cost/reliability nilsferber.de/#/micro-wind-turbine/ Now if you look at folding 7W solar panels if they're in the sun all day, during summer they make 42Wh down here in Melbs, and 17.5Wh in winter. They're also priced at about $25 with a USB connector. You can hang it from your backpack whilst walking. These are the reasons I chose it for my radio/led light charging.
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Post by familyprepper on Oct 9, 2016 14:48:36 GMT 10
Agreed shiney For price and output solar is way better Also in a shtf or survival situation you have to light fire for other to work If your injured etc the solar can still work even if you stay put in one spot
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Post by perthprepper on Oct 9, 2016 15:55:14 GMT 10
Now if you look at folding 7W solar panels if they're in the sun all day, during summer they make 42Wh down here in Melbs, and 21Wh in winter. They're also priced at about $25 with a USB connector. You can hang it from your backpack whilst walking. These are the reasons I chose it for my radio/led light charging. What sort of timings do you get for charging with these? At that price I'd probably buy one just for fun and maybe for camping trips with prepping as a side benefit For example, how long does it take to charge up a phone? Or do you have to just about keep it on there permanently to retain charge? I saw in another thread you mentioned a 10W version, is this much quicker in practice? My UHF hand-held radios and GPS can also charge through USB so this could be handy
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 10, 2016 3:44:03 GMT 10
Ahh, that's a good question. Best I give you some examples for items to help you see it. The panel works much like your wall charger, so plug it in, charge unplug device when you like.
iphone 6 - 6.9Wh UV-5R - 13.3Wh You can work out how many Watts by multiplying Amps x Volts. There are 1000mAh = 1 Ah.
Now in terms of how long, it depends on many factors, such as is the solar panel pointing 'north' at a slight angle, is it cloudy etc. If you lay it flat you'll get 10-20% less energy for instance. The angle makes a difference though you will get power if the panel has light on it, it's a matter of how much. Having said that, lets get to some approximate figures based on average sun and a 7W panel. 10W is about a 1/3 better, so it will charge 1/3 quicker.
Winter = 17.5W/6 hours of usable sun. = about 2.9W/hr. The actual production curve will peak in the middle of the day, though this gives an idea. Summer = 42W/8hrs of usable sun. = about 5.3W/hr
iphone from flat = 2.4hrs winter, 1.3hrs summer UV-5R from flat = 4.6hrs winter, 2.5hrs
It's worth noting that Li-ion batteries are designed to not go completely flat because it can kill the battery if they do, so the figures will be a little better on average.
10W and 7W fordable panels with USB charger are pretty compact and cheap and they're good size for radios/phones and if you're hiking/bush-walking you can string them to the back of your pack and charge things [at a reduced rate] whilst you're moving. I've not experimented there, so have no real world data, though as I said, if there's light on the panel, you'll put some juice in it. If you have a spare battery, you might charge that whilst using the unit, which is what I do and have a kit for every portable CB radio I own.
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Post by perthprepper on Oct 10, 2016 9:01:12 GMT 10
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Oct 10, 2016 10:27:01 GMT 10
There are many solutions to this 'problem' but I seem to be missing the point.
How many electronic devices do we really need when hiking or bugging out? You can carry a lot of batteries for the weight and bulk of a solar pannel. A phone is for emergency use, if you get bad battery life ditch the smart phone and get somthing cheap and simple that'll hold a charge for ages.
For a half kg pannel you could pack 20AAs or 30 if you go lithium. Most radios/gps devices can take battery adaptors and this eliminates constantly trying to charge the devices. A map is a simpler solution than a gps anyway.
Anyone else see this as a solution to a problem that doesnt exist?
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Post by perthprepper on Oct 10, 2016 13:59:08 GMT 10
Point taken, but for ~$30 it's a fairly inexpensive fun toy (for a nerd like me) and who knows under what prep-related scenarios it'd be useful. Our household has lots of devices it could charge so perhaps it's even a financial win in ordinary life (not that I've gone close to doing the maths).
As an aside, I definitely prefer maps to GPS for navigation but the GPS (a Garmin watch) is great for letting me know my running/cycling speeds (not critical info by any means, but again, a fun toy)
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Oct 10, 2016 14:14:53 GMT 10
Dont get me wrong, i have many solar panels from 300mW to 200W... Very very useful but I'd never be taking one with me in a bugout or camping situation. Good thing about solar is you can cut them up and re-wire them to suit application so modular!
In my mind a good collection of recharable batteries and power generation at the base/homestead is the best way to do it, keeps weight to a minimum. As to the device in the OP I'd be interested in a larger scale stationary system for the homestead, makes a lot if sense but trying to make something transportable and lightweight is never going to be efficient.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 10, 2016 17:55:12 GMT 10
That kind of solar panel is what I'm talking about, generic ones do the trick, 10W is 10W, the area of the panel is the best indication of authenticity, though I've not seen issues with fake ratings on solar panels. Look for ones with free postage and compare with Aliexpress also for the best deals.
I have an unspecified number of the kits listed below. I also put a lot of thought into it, though for my own application and I covered some more details [more than you probably need lol] in another post.
Comms & Electronics gear USB Radio BF-888 [inc battery] 1 - chosen for the price, it's simplier [just a dial] uses less power and has similar range. Spare Radio battery 2 - rotating between all 3 ever 8 hrs, the batteries last up to 16 hrs. 6-10W folding charger 1 - most are 7W, though the calculations allow 6W in winter. Extra USB chargers 2 - I charge 2 radio batteries during the day 4 USB hub 1 - so I can charge more than one thing Head Torch [AAA batteries] 1 - keeps the hands free Spare alkaline AAA batteries 6 - emergency redundancy for torches AAA batteries Eneloop 3 - main batteries for headlamp AAA to AA battery converter 3 - possible to use other equipment if needed USB single AAA battery charger 3 - can charge 2 at a time. Heavy Zip lock bag 1 - Rudimentary rain protection Duct tape 1 - helpful if wanting to charge on the move, aka keeping joints connected.
Comms & electronics total $81.23
Batteries are unlikely to not work suddenly. They degrade. The problem with battery replacement kits is that they're more costly than a spare battery, and then you add the cost of the alkaline, I do have a few never the less, I just don't have them in my kits. You can charge alkaline batteries up to 5 times [most don't know this] though bang for buck, I don't see the advantage compared to a system that will last easily 3 years with about 20% degradation with 3 batteries. In addition because I have an unspecified number of these kits, aka I have tons of redundancy.
Ideally I would have more eneloops instead of the AAA alkaline and I made a decision based on cost cutting as I don't consider a torch to be a primary asset unlike the comms, and you need to charge a few hours.
Whilst these kits are independent, small, light and portable, I have various charging/power systems that would be more primary power sources anyhow [such as large banks of solar and batteries].
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Post by ziggysdad on Oct 10, 2016 18:56:19 GMT 10
I agree with a lot of the points being made. I keep three external battery chargers for my phone, a solar panel for topping off small electronics and chargers, and have a couple crank/discharge devices to give my phone a few % if all else fails.
That said, I'm still thinking about picking up a BioLite as another redundancy- boiling 1L of water in 3-4 minutes is fairly appealing.
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myrrph
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Post by myrrph on Oct 11, 2016 0:13:34 GMT 10
you can actually make your own ... its a lot cheaper to do so. just need a soldering iron, the appropriate metal cups and the thermister (i think thats what its called).
build it yourself, it'll be good experience and knowledge.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 11, 2016 1:01:57 GMT 10
Zig. For sure, there's horses for courses and you're correct, if you're boiling the water and want to do a little charging at the same time then awesome. Hopefully the sums, gives people perspective and info for what works best for their application.
Myrrp. A thermister is a resistor that changes resistance depending on temperature, typically used as a temperature sensor for a thermostat/thermal cut off etc. You're close though, it's called a Peltier and they're pretty cheap to buy smaller ones if you're so inclined to try it out.
[ramble] Whilst I've not done it, and haven't looked up performance versus size etc, what I do understand is the theory and you'd want to create as big a heat gradient as you can between both sides as you can. So a large heat sink with lots of air flow on the colder side is a good plan as that will get you the most current [charge rate]. They also don't like too much heat either, so you need the water in the pot or similar or place them near a heat source that isn't over 150C or else you'd kill it. An idea along these lines is to use a widely focused lens or mirror making sure you didn't create too much heat and use it to convert the sun's energy into electricity. It's not going to be very efficient [solar is far better] though it would work. Another is to use solar hot water as your heat source [assuming it's not pressured which might raise the temp] with a heat sink in the air and you'd have some power that way. You might attach it to a chimney that's hot but not too hot with a heatpipe running to a heatsink outside for winter electricity generation. The wood stove might be on for cooking/heating anyhow, might as well use the heat running up the pipe for something and in winter, if you can get the heatsink outside, you'll have a great gradiant difference. Is it going to make much energy,... probably not a lot, though perhaps enough to keep low energy lights on, for no more energy cost [normally wasted going up the chimney. There's lots of places where such devices could be used, particularly with wasted energy such as a car engine in which we typically use water to take away the heat or on the exhaust of a hybrid and could be pumped back to into the batteries. It's not free energy, it's using the heat that's usually vented. [end ramble]
It all depends on application and whilst there might be better ways to make power [solar in my opinion] we are preppers and options can be interesting and may serve multiple purposes.
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myrrph
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Post by myrrph on Oct 11, 2016 9:57:19 GMT 10
yeah... forgot what it was called and was lazy to google it.
Thanks Shinester
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Post by ziggysdad on Oct 11, 2016 10:04:58 GMT 10
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hd1340
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Post by hd1340 on Oct 20, 2016 14:02:58 GMT 10
I did a quick search and noted that there hasn't been any real discussion regarding BioLite in over 18 months www.bioliteenergy.comDefinitely thinking about bout getting one of these...just trying to decide between the camping version and the base camp model. View AttachmentView Attachment[br Quite a few reviews on youtube
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tyburn
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Post by tyburn on Oct 20, 2016 20:44:29 GMT 10
Used to see larger commercially made versions of these everywhere in China (made from steel buckets) until about a decade ago. Not sure where they were made, but were a popular heater for security guards in crappy draughty guard boxes outside carparks and the like. I reckon with all the recently enforced rules about smoke pollution etc, they're probably not widely used anymore. I guess there would be plenty of old codgers around who remember them and could build one in an emergency though.
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myrrph
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Post by myrrph on Nov 17, 2016 13:01:27 GMT 10
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Nov 17, 2016 13:12:34 GMT 10
Oh sure. I'm guessing from the description that it works in a similar way to peltiers [it might also mean a better mini fridge] in that it has to have a heat gradient [hot side and cold side like a fridge] to be effective. I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes of it.
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