bce1
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Post by bce1 on Dec 1, 2016 14:00:01 GMT 10
Anyone else heard of him? guymcpherson.comI went to to see him speak last night- we are all dead from rapid climate change within 10 yrs and will go extinct as a species. At face value he comes across as sane scientist presenting facts - and the conclusion is depressing in the extreme. Fortunately he has been debunked to a degree via several sites I respect - but only really around the time frame and magnitude, not the actual processes. I applied the rules I usually apply as a skeptic and came to the conclusion he is fringe and probably a poor scientist. But many believe him. To summarise. There is no hope, we are all going to die. Commit suicide if you want. But I suggest you enjoy life as you cannot change things and only have 8-10 years - that seems to be his message. Two word summary - we're fooked. BCE
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Dec 1, 2016 14:51:59 GMT 10
People have said the same thing for 30 years. Is climate changing, yes. Have temperatures risen? Yes and fallen since we started burning fossilized trees. Is CO2 bad, nope, it feeds plants [they even grow extra stomata/leaf-gas pore with the presence of more CO2], which is good for the growing population and we're still in ice-age level CO2 levels, in fact we might well have saved the world. A lack of CO2 is 'really' bad plants won't survive. Here's some history. Having said that, I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about. The world did just fine previously, in fact supported giant lizards without issue. The more important question for me is how many lives have actually been killed by climate change versus changing energy use? People will very much die in the winter and summer [air conditioning saves many lives in hot regions] and society will fall apart if we take up insane ideas. Besides you can spray sea water way up into the air, costing only about 50 million a year and create your own cooling. I still haven't made my mind up, though people threatening and trying to scare people with death better well be absolutely on point, this guy, seems unlikely to be.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Dec 1, 2016 15:23:28 GMT 10
from where i stand they are looking at the wrong average. i'm more inclined to view population, food production, resource depletion and pollution averages as much more an important issue than temp and CO2 levels. my understanding on CO2 increases is that is good for plants ingeneral but not really for the ones we rely on for most of our food. CO2 promotes growh at expense of seeding and fruiting.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Dec 1, 2016 15:52:40 GMT 10
Hadn't heard that got me some linkies?
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Dec 1, 2016 16:20:13 GMT 10
Too many armchair scientists on any issue that becomes this politicised.
'CO2 is good for plants' seems such an over simplification of the topic and somthing I've heard it thrown around as an argument againts greenhouse gasses being a problem.
There's only so much photosynthesis each plant can achieve and for me the big issue is deforestation.
Like all issues this political, the truth is somewhere in the middle, people seem to think its justified to inflate an issue if it causes action in the right direction... I disagree. Level heads ned to prevail and this guy is clearly off the deep end.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Dec 1, 2016 17:17:43 GMT 10
Hadn't heard that got me some linkies? i looked further into the issue a long time ago reading research papers but cant remember what they were called or who wrote them. a 2 min internet search gave a good range of views. www.newscientist.com/article/dn11655-climate-myths-higher-co2-levels-will-boost-plant-growth-and-food-production/www.ciesin.org/docs/004-138/004-138.html this gives an alternative analysis to what i have researched. www.farmtrials.com.au/trial/16605. australian report suggesting more biomass but less quality of grains. there are heaps of papers on this topic with a wide range of views. limiting factors of depleted soil, water and degradation of land will limit many "benefits" of increased carbon in atmoshpere. while the globe continues to debate climate change more and more mouths are being created that need to be fed. all this on a planet that is being degraded rapidly. its one of my main drivers to beginning my journey to prepping and living a life on my own patch and making sure my family have a solid back up plan.
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Post by Joey on Dec 1, 2016 18:08:19 GMT 10
As far as I'm concerned, the climate will just keep doing what's its doing naturally. What I'm more worried about is overpopulation and food security. With more and more sheeple following the "organic" and vegan lifestyles this means more cropping land required for the increase in produce. Even more so for organic farming which as far as I'm concerned is very uneconomical for that you can't till in fertiliser to rejuvenate the soil before the next crop but require it to sit and do this naturally. Take religion out of the equation, food and water sources will be the next cause of wars
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token
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Post by token on Dec 1, 2016 21:11:29 GMT 10
As far as I'm concerned, the climate will just keep doing what's its doing naturally. What I'm more worried about is overpopulation and food security. With more and more sheeple following the "organic" and vegan lifestyles this means more cropping land required for the increase in produce. Even more so for organic farming which as far as I'm concerned is very uneconomical for that you can't till in fertiliser to rejuvenate the soil before the next crop but require it to sit and do this naturally. Take religion out of the equation, food and water sources will be the next cause of wars Dunno about that bloke in the OP, but the whole current climate change fiasco is bulldust to me, is it warming or is it cooling? hmmm, hype, media, intimidation and attacks against any scientist who suggests otherwise, yer nah, lost me. I agree with you here Joey, 'the climate will just keep doing what its doing naturally'. I'm not however bothered about overpopulation and food security from such as from my research we currently have enough food every year to feed well over 11 billion people, the issue is the greed which stops it from being distributed where necessary due to transportation costs. If you take for instance what i can grow every year in a suburban block with not much room, i have so much food that i have nothing else to do but share it with neighbours, in fact its shocking how much food i can grow with a huge family in a small space and how much i give away. Also, the amount of seeds i then have are increased exponentially for the next season also. This is all grown organically btw, so im not sure what you mean by 'sheeple following organic' routes in respect to less harvest, simply doesnt make sense from my research and working models which are doing so. When you do research on the synthetic fertilizers that are being used also, the plant only absorbs a certain amount of such, and taste is being lost significantly in comparison to what i can grow from my soils. The fact is, we dont need synthetic fertilizers at all, we can go natural and its easy and productive. Just the other week i was in a car with a 75 year old cocky deer farmer driving me around his block showing me his crops and deer fencing. He had a lot to say and i just listened. He uses half a tonne of lime per acre of land to get the minerals into the ground for the crops for the deer, then he pointed through the fence to the neighbour and started showing me how much of a failure they are having in comparison using a specific fertilizer. In fact, theres a new flour mill started out our way in a town almost an hour out, they are flat out looking for high quality wheats due to the fertilizer not doing too well. That cocky had lots to say about doing it natural and not the way our current agriculture teaches in many ways. Its time for a change imo. Plenty of food, and plenty of room to grow tonnes of food, the natural way, folk just need educating. With compost you can rip it into the soil also, and there is tonnes of biomatter to make compost, astounding amounts in fact that end up as land fill. Replace that with synthetic fertilizers and or rock dust minerals and youll have better crops. You can utilize grass clippings, offcuts, cardboard, leaves, bark, veggie scaps, animal waste, wood chips, paper and more to make brilliant soil. Dr Elaine Ingham is well worth watching in this field, but apart from that, i can first hand show you the difference in what i can grow compared to what youll find at market from synthetic fertilizers. I have people blown away by the taste of some of my food, and the pests dont hassle it as much either.
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Post by Peter on Dec 1, 2016 22:10:18 GMT 10
When the most prominent "climate activists" in the world (Gore, di Caprio, et al) start living their lives as if they're actually concerned by climate change, I'll then start paying attention.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Dec 4, 2016 21:32:59 GMT 10
Hey Joey, just an aside about 'overpopulation' - there's lots of hype on that one, too. Australia hasn't had a birthrate above replacement since 1980, but that doesn't mean much because overall worldwide population growth is more to the point. Wikipedia is a so-so source of information but from the stats on worldwide fertility rate (which is a measure of children per woman) - in 1950 the TFR was 4.95 children per woman, by the 2010-2015 block it had dropped to 2.36 children per woman - and replacement is only 2.33. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rateIf that's approximately accurate - and it does look like just the effects of modern contraception, really - paired with the difficulty governments in low birthrate countries have had trying to increase birthrates... we might not be as far up **** creek (on that issue at least) as it sometimes sounds.
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tyburn
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Post by tyburn on Dec 12, 2016 23:27:16 GMT 10
So, how dumb will this guy look in ten years time, when someone rings him on live radio to ask why we're all still alive? Maybe he'll be like those religious nutjobs in the US who keep prophesying armageddon at a certain date, then pushing the date back a few years when nothing happens. All the while saying nothing happened because they and their supporters prayed so hard to stop it.
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