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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 15, 2017 21:21:04 GMT 10
German Journalist Gernot Kramper compared two videos showing the US-made M1 Abrams tank and the Russian-made T-90 being hit by anti-tank missiles. He found that the Russian-made military vehicles demonstrated much better resistance and a higher level of armor protection than the American one.The recent military operation in Mosul shows that the US-led coalition is superior in the air, but its land operations leave much to be desired, Kramper wrote for German magazine Stern. One of the videos released by Daesh fighters shows how an anti-tank missile hit an American M1 Abrams tank and turned it into a "ball of fire." "The tank, weighing more than 60 tons, was supposed to protect its crew from something like that. The M1 Abrams is a combat armor tank of the US forces that is still in use. It was introduced for the first time in 1979, and since then it has been modernized several times. The Iraqis, however, have only reclaimed older versions available. The main problem is that the tanks have obviously not been reequipped with modern defense features," the journalist wrote. Apparently, a rocket hit the most vulnerable part of the tank — the compartment with ammunition. However, the 60-ton tank was still supposed to provide protection for the crew. Obviously, the tank in question did not possess active defense systems. There was also no reactive armor on the vehicle that could have reduced the damage, Kramper stated. The author also noted that in contrast to Iraqi troops equipped with the old US military vehicles, the Syrian Army was provided by Moscow with the new efficient tanks. To prove his opinion, Kramper published a video depicting the US-produced TOW missile hitting the Russian-made T-90 tank in Syria. The machine turned out to have an active protection system that didn't let the missile to penetrate the armor and enabled the crew to get out of the cab. Read more: sputniknews.com/military/201611051047097888-imefficiency-us-tanks/
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 15, 2017 21:22:52 GMT 10
Daesh has identified a weak spot in Germany's legendary Leopard 2 battle tanks, and has destroyed ten of the machines used by the Turkish Army in northern Syria, the German newspaper Die Welt reported. Battles in Afghanistan, Kosovo and elsewhere have earned Germany's Leopard 2 battle tank a reputation for being indestructible. In one case, Canadian forces managed to drive a Leopard through a massive Taliban bomb blast and survive. However, Turkish troops fighting the terrorist group Daesh in northern Syria have had a different experience. According to reports, Daesh fighters in the city of Al Bab have destroyed ten Leopard 2A4 battle tanks. Searching for answers, some German bloggers have speculated that leadership failures or a lack of experience among Turkish troops may be to blame. However, the fundamental issue appears to be whether the 60 ton tanks are suitable for use in an urban environment, the German newspaper Die Welt reported on Thursday. "The Leopard 2 basic concept comes from a time when the enemy was expected to attack from the front. This basic design applies internationally to the big combat tanks, even to the most modern Russian T-14 Armata," Die Welt wrote. "The heavy-duty tracked vehicles are designed for a duel battle and have maximum protection in the frontal area as well as a small side angle. Since, for example, the Russian anti-tank missile Kornet can penetrate even 1.2-meter-thick armor, a tank's less-protected areas are relatively vulnerable." "During the course of fighting in the Syrian town of al-Bath, the Turks' approximately 30-year-old Leopards were often shot in the rear and sometimes from the side with anti-tank weapons. There, the massive tracked vehicles are less protected. Soldiers agree that a battle in a city can't be compared with a duel on wide, undeveloped land, where tanks usually fight their targets from two or three kilometers away." According to a report from the German-language magazine European Security and Technology, the Leopard tanks in service with the Turkish army are especially vulnerable because they don't have additional protection such as reactive armor, which reacts to and reduces a weapon's impact, or an active protection system (APS) to counterattack an incoming threat such as the Trophy APS used by the Israeli army. Daesh have destroyed the Leopard tanks by firing anti-tank weapons at the turret, which caused the ammunition inside to explode, the magazine wrote. However, while reactive armor and APS make tanks more resistant to attack, they also make the vehicles much heavier. The German defense ministry told Die Welt that the newest version of the Leopard 2, the A7V, is currently being introduced to the German army and boasts higher protection compared to the 2A4, which is no longer in service with the Bundeswehr. The newest Leopard 2A7, 20 of which were introduced to the Bundeswehr in 2014, reportedly has a special composite armor which includes layers of ceramic. However, the models produced so far don't have reactive armor, which was first installed in 1982 on Israeli tanks during Israel's war with Lebanon. Singapore, which bought 96 Leopard 2A4 tanks between 2006 and 2009, has upgraded them with Advanced Modular Armor Protection (AMAP), a modular composite armor produced by the German firm IBD Deisenroth Engineering. An example of a reactive armor system is the one fitted on Russia's 50-ton Armata T-14. These explosive reactive armor plates are comprised of "bricks" of explosive sandwiched between two metal plates, which force an incoming projectile to dissipate its impact over a larger volume of armor. Active protection systems include Raytheon's Quick Kill APS and Israel's Trophy APS, which uses radar antenna to track incoming rocket-propelled grenades and missiles, and deploys multiple explosively formed penetrators (EFP) to destroy them. Russia's T-14 Armata battle tanks and T-15 Armata heavy infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) are fitted with the Afganit APS, which employs a combination of active phased antenna array radars and UV detectors to identify and track incoming projectiles, and mini-mortar systems which use fragmentation rounds to intercept and destroy incoming threats in mid-flight. Read more: sputniknews.com/europe/201701141049591403-german-leopold-tank-syria-daesh/
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Post by selfsufficient on Feb 20, 2017 0:56:48 GMT 10
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Feb 20, 2017 13:44:31 GMT 10
The proof is in the pudding, armor is supposed to be part of a package of ground and air, has been so since WW1, where's the ground and air support units here? How many Abrams have the US lost in armed conflict exactly? Bugger all, tiny numbers. Of course they're not invincible, they're the best of the 80s, hand held technology is the best of more recent times, and they're hardly 'ineffective', that's rather nonsensical. Even their far less protected export versions [we have similar] are well appointed. They are still one of the best and proven tanks in the world, perhaps you could argue the latest Leopard or K2 Black Panther is better... maybe. Kind of moot, when you have nobody shooting back at the infantry and no air support.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Feb 20, 2017 21:33:42 GMT 10
"How many Abrams have the US lost" They lost one on a Nth Qld beach a few years ago, during Talisman Sabre. Apparently it got bogged in the sand and they forgot to retrieve it at end-ex until they were reminded. You should post that on the jokes thread! Lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 9:59:24 GMT 10
Tanks are old school, any Soldier on foot can take out a Tank because the tracks are its weak point. It makes far better sense to use drones than tanks, they can do the same job at a lower cost and no risk to the operating crew.
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Post by Pasta Deefa on Apr 21, 2017 10:52:23 GMT 10
Tanks have always been hard to deploy effectively in urban areas. Look at the way the Russians were shot to pieces attacking Grozny in the '94 invasion of Chechnya. Tanks are still a highly effective piece of kit, but as someone else pointed out, they absolutely need to be used as properly integrated part of combined operations.
On the topic of relative armour protection it is worth pointing out that the Iraqi's do indeed have the less well protected export model and, more importantly, most of the videos of Abrams being knocked out feature the vehicles being struck from dead behind or a quartering shot from the rear like this one. No tank is going to take a shot up the arse like that. The infantry screen *should* be preventing anti tank units from getting into positions where they can make a shot like that. Having said that the journalist does make a valid point as to why the vehicles aren't fitted with reactive armour. It's cheap and effective. I can't recall seeing any American vehicles fitted with it ever. Maybe it's because it is a danger to the supporting infantry?
Drones have their place, but to hold ground you need boots, and tracks firmly placed on it.
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