paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Apr 19, 2017 0:06:11 GMT 10
I'm not LDS so not 100% but I think we need to go through WWIII before he comes back. Hence the prepping. lol, (ww111) if its a 'post tribulation' view. And Mormons aren't going to be saved in the Christ Jesus of the Bible (no offense to Mormons, as they say the same about non-mormons so just saying, as even their late Prophet claimed they follow 'another jesus' to the Bible clearly). However, they can be nice folk and wise in many respects and i just spoke with an Elder from Utah in NZ the other day about contacts for bulk food and supplies for a friend over their for his churches, nice guy, and willing to assist. Back on the pre, mid, post trib, for whoever is interested, either tribulation view, trouble will come that demands preparedness, if its a pre-trib, we have 'the beginning of sorrows' period which started at the Cross and will continue right throughout the 7 years Antichrist will reign. If its a mid-trib, you have the beginning of sorrows, and 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign stacked on top, and if its the post-trib, you have both of those and the last 3.5 years which is 'Great tribulation' where Antichrist abolishes religion, and sets himself up as a god to be worshipped. On top of that, there is a very good case for a pre-trib person to not only prep for themselves but also for those left behind, and i dont doubt God is leading plenty of folk to do just that.
Yeah I'm not getting saved either but you cant win them all. The WWIII was tongue and cheek but I'm pretty sure LDS are post trib. I vaguely remember passages from doctrine & covenants about God 'threshing' (sounds particularly rough so it stuck with me) the earth and burning things before we all got saved.
As you say there's plenty of reasons for Christians to prep, even pre-trib will have increased disasters to contend with before anything happens.
I'll leave it there so we don't start getting into long religious discussions on the guest board... lol
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Post by graynomad on Apr 19, 2017 7:30:28 GMT 10
...then empty the waste and contaminated water on a tree that wasnt an edible, or empty it onto a longer term compost pile to break down and use as soil filler. Four years ago when we returned to our land I started dumping the porta pottie contents into a hollow stump with a view to finding a better solution before long. I'm still dumping into the "dump stump" and the level of poo is hardly any higher than the first day. If you are on land I see waste disposal as a total non issue, maybe even on a suburban block. |
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token
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Post by token on Apr 19, 2017 8:40:48 GMT 10
...then empty the waste and contaminated water on a tree that wasnt an edible, or empty it onto a longer term compost pile to break down and use as soil filler. Four years ago when we returned to our land I started dumping the porta pottie contents into a hollow stump with a view to finding a better solution before long. I'm still dumping into the "dump stump" and the level of poo is hardly any higher than the first day. If you are on land I see waste disposal as a total non issue, maybe even on a suburban block. Agreed, we had a long drop which was probably only 600mm deep, and even with a lot of bums, it still didnt fill up. It actually made me wonder where it was going or if something like worms were in there or bugs eating the stuff lol. |
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Apr 19, 2017 11:50:16 GMT 10
lol, (ww111) if its a 'post tribulation' view. And Mormons aren't going to be saved in the Christ Jesus of the Bible (no offense to Mormons, as they say the same about non-mormons so just saying, as even their late Prophet claimed they follow 'another jesus' to the Bible clearly). However, they can be nice folk and wise in many respects and i just spoke with an Elder from Utah in NZ the other day about contacts for bulk food and supplies for a friend over their for his churches, nice guy, and willing to assist. Back on the pre, mid, post trib, for whoever is interested, either tribulation view, trouble will come that demands preparedness, if its a pre-trib, we have 'the beginning of sorrows' period which started at the Cross and will continue right throughout the 7 years Antichrist will reign. If its a mid-trib, you have the beginning of sorrows, and 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign stacked on top, and if its the post-trib, you have both of those and the last 3.5 years which is 'Great tribulation' where Antichrist abolishes religion, and sets himself up as a god to be worshipped. On top of that, there is a very good case for a pre-trib person to not only prep for themselves but also for those left behind, and i dont doubt God is leading plenty of folk to do just that.
Yeah I'm not getting saved either but you cant win them all. The WWIII was tongue and cheek but I'm pretty sure LDS are post trib. I vaguely remember passages from doctrine & covenants about God 'threshing' (sounds particularly rough so it stuck with me) the earth and burning things before we all got saved.
As you say there's plenty of reasons for Christians to prep, even pre-trib will have increased disasters to contend with before anything happens.
I'll leave it there so we don't start getting into long religious discussions on the guest board... lol
Post trib as a sifting is needed to prepare the world for His return. I will steer clear of trying to correct peoples perception of the LDS church but you might find this interesting. Mormon doctrine states that a great hailstone will destroy all the crops of the earth, it will take a year to get food production going again. Hence the requirement to have a minimum of 12 months of supplies. It is biblical as well. |
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Post by ziggysdad on Apr 19, 2017 16:28:06 GMT 10
LDS recommend prepping for 3 months of food storage and then building to a year - not sure where the 7 years worth of food comes from (the LDS food storage calculator doesn't suggest this) www.lds.org/topics/food-storage?lang=eng&old=trueprovidentliving.com/preparedness/food-storage/foodcalc/LDS sell cases of 30-year shelf life staples at very reasonable prices (only in the US) and I did the math previously and could put up 52 weeks of food for 3 people for about $1000. It would cost you triple that here (and you'd have to purchase the buckets or mylar separately). |
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Post by graynomad on Apr 20, 2017 8:14:40 GMT 10
...something like worms were in there or bugs eating the stuff lol. Bang on. In our composting dunny the soldier fly lava have moved in and I haven't emptied that for months now. That may change now it's getting cold, it will be interesting to see. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 15:30:09 GMT 10
I can see I set the cat among the canary's mentioning the seven year goal of prepping. Don't get any ideas that I'm religious, but the seven years does have a religious origin in some prophesy somewhere. It just so happens to be the recovery time from a nuclear winter, before vegetation could reestablish itself, coincidence maybe! Seven years is beyond the shelf life of tinned foods, so I think toilet paper would be the least of your concerns..... To go seven years you are talking about lots of dehydrated food stores and grains to go that distance. I cannot even imagine keeping chooks going seven years without fresh feed, but it might be the push I need to get me interested in mushroom growing again.
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blueshoes
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The stages
Apr 24, 2017 16:37:57 GMT 10
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Post by blueshoes on Apr 24, 2017 16:37:57 GMT 10
I cannot even imagine keeping chooks going seven years without fresh feed, but it might be the push I need to get me interested in mushroom growing again. Mmm mushrooms. Now you've got me thinking |
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token
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Post by token on Apr 24, 2017 20:26:35 GMT 10
I can see I set the cat among the canary's mentioning the seven year goal of prepping. Don't get any ideas that I'm religious, but the seven years does have a religious origin in some prophesy somewhere. It just so happens to be the recovery time from a nuclear winter, before vegetation could reestablish itself, coincidence maybe! Seven years is beyond the shelf life of tinned foods, so I think toilet paper would be the least of your concerns..... To go seven years you are talking about lots of dehydrated food stores and grains to go that distance. I cannot even imagine keeping chooks going seven years without fresh feed, but it might be the push I need to get me interested in mushroom growing again. I think of myself more as eagle that eats the cat over a canary or pigeon, but pretty sure noone who commented is too bothered, hopefully we are all seasoned with varying opinions. Just on the 'seven years is beyond the shelf life of tinned foods' comment, from my research (not practical) i have read that tinned foods kept in a cool dark place last many many years more, only they can lose nutritional value and taste but are still good for eating. As for chooks, if in a nuclear issue, i dont know, but if given enough area to feed in, and or compost, they can adapt to not needing any feed at all, ive seen it. |
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Post by Peter on Apr 24, 2017 21:41:32 GMT 10
Yes, tinned foods can last way longer than seven years (just make sure they're properly canned and the seal isn't compromised - including dents).
I recall seeing a documentary on people living in Ukraine after the Chernobyl disaster. Comment was made linking mushrooms to radiation; perhaps they absorb radiation, perhaps radiation promotes their growth. I can't remember - does anyone else have information on this? I do remember that the mushrooms they were eating were enormous.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Apr 24, 2017 23:23:04 GMT 10
I don't know a lot about nuclear radiation but I know a fair amount about fungi. They can pretty much absorb anything... they're starting to be used a lot in industrial waste clean-ups and the mining of heavy metals. The mycelium network spans HUGE distances underground yet the toxins, metals ect.. are always concentrated in the fruit (the 'mushrooms'). After fruiting you can then remove the mushrooms, dry them/process them and extract the metals/chemicals you're trying to absorb.
It's therefore quite conceivable to me that fungi would absorb fallout or radiation and concentrate it in the fruit.
On the plus side, mushrooms can adapt very quickly to just about any growing medium. You can grow them on anything made of organic matter. Straw, cardboard, grain, rice, cigarette butts, coffee grounds... The only trick to their cultivation is developing a clean room or cupboard (not as hard as you think) that you can use to propagate the spawn without contamination. Crack that code and you just keep feeding them organics.
The other thing to remember for prepping is you don't even need the 'mushrooms' to fruit in order to get the benefits and protein out of the food. You can grow fungi infused grain and rice and eat it as such. Very healthy and would be a way of making the most of your stored grains... you don't need light to cultivate fungi so would be not only possible but preferable (from the fungi's standpoint) if you were living underground.
EDIT: www.healwithfood.org/articles/mushrooms-radioactive-cesium-nuclear.php - looks like they do absorb radiation... www.scientificamerican.com/article/radiation-helps-fungi-grow/ - and it helps them grow?
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Apr 25, 2017 0:27:08 GMT 10
I can see I set the cat among the canary's mentioning the seven year goal of prepping. Don't get any ideas that I'm religious, but the seven years does have a religious origin in some prophesy somewhere. It just so happens to be the recovery time from a nuclear winter, before vegetation could reestablish itself, coincidence maybe! Seven years is beyond the shelf life of tinned foods, so I think toilet paper would be the least of your concerns..... To go seven years you are talking about lots of dehydrated food stores and grains to go that distance. I cannot even imagine keeping chooks going seven years without fresh feed, but it might be the push I need to get me interested in mushroom growing again. Just to go at some common misconceptions that I also had before looking into it... Nuclear 'winter' has been shown [not by me, though I will put forward the case here] to be an exaggeration, the calculations were based on far too much matter being burnt in an unrealistic way and giant firestorms that spread for hundreds and hundreds of kilometers as well as material being in the upper atmosphere for far longer than the material would linger and a result that is far worse than history has shown from volcanic erruptions. For instance, mount Tambora's erruption in 1815 "caused average global temperatures to decrease by 0.4–0.7 °C" ".. a colossal event that ejected at least 100 km3". Just think about the amount of material that is, 100km cubed. 1cubic meter of soil is about 1.6 tons. So 1,600,000,000,000 tons of material. It was seen as a long winter that year, no summer. Source - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1815_eruption_of_Mount_Tambora"A low-altitude detonation produces a cloud with a dust loading of 100 tons per megaton of yield. A ground detonation produces clouds with about three times as much dust. For a ground detonation, approximately 200 tons of soil per kiloton of yield is melted and comes in contact with radiation.[8]" So.. 200 tons [per kt] * 800 [approx average yield] * 15,000 [number of nukes] = 2,400,000,000 tons of material assuming all of them were used and all were ground burst and assuming the yields were that high on average [aka an exaggeration]. So, that leaves us with 1/666th of the Tambora eruption in terms of airborn material from the explosion [where material would be ejected high into the atmosphere], and the Tambora erruption had a lot of sulfur which has a larger green house effect. Source - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom_cloudBetter info en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter---- Canned foods, at least those pressure canned, unless punctured or rusted away very much stand the test of time, decades and decades as can be seen on various MRE opening and eating channels on youtube. For instance this channel, a great eye opener for food preservation! www.youtube.com/channel/UC2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHAMakes sense, the items within were pressure cooked [125C+] and sealed at temp, so sterile inside. That's not to say enzymes won't change the color and food won't deteriorate [it will], though it ought to remain edible. It's also something you have to be careful with, the can might have pinholes in it caused by deterioration of the can that you didn't notice, which is why good due diligence such as making sure it has a vacuum seal and inspecting the cans is important. ----- Paranoia - What about sterilized manure as the organic medium? Kinda hilarious that you might become part of the food chain if you're living in a bunker. |
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Apr 25, 2017 8:59:51 GMT 10
Are we talking about humanure?
I imagine it would be fairly easy to sterilise and adapt mushrooms to grow on the manure of a ruminant but if we're talking human sourced I can see a few potential problems.
Structure:
After autoclaving to kill off competing fungus (of which there is a lot in manure) I cant imagine a structure conducive to the idea growing of mushrooms. This could be overcome by a thin 'smearing' on a flat surface but this would limit your ability to grow anything of decent size/volume. Even 'sterilised' this wouldn't be a particularly nice medium to work with.
Composition:
Humans eat a varied diet so the manure would be not only of inconsistent quality but made of many different ingredients. Whilst fungi can eat lots of different things, they cant efficiently consume a varied diet.
The metaphor I like to explain it is that they need a 'key' to unlock a certain food for consumption. They have a HUGE keyring with a lots of different keys on it that can unlock many different substances but they can only really hold one key at a time. It can take a while sometimes for a fungi to adapt to a new food so something as varied as human manure could hold problems. So while fungi will eat just about anything organic, you need to 'train' them to eat something new (slowly increase the ratio of the new food to the old food they like until they find the right key/enzyme).
There also isn't a lot of organic matter left in humanure for the mushrooms to consume.
If you wanted to turn manure into mushrooms your best bet would be to grow straw, then grow mushrooms... this is however difficult to do in a bunker.
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