paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Aug 25, 2017 13:24:21 GMT 10
Just wow...
It's difficult to mentally place myself into such a desperate situation. Without any money or assets you can rely on your skills and health... When that fails you always have the social capital you've built over the years to get through.
Without question everything possible needs to be done to get in shape. Without skills you at least need to be mobile and who knows what will be ahead.
I would flip the cars, the guns and whatever else I had I didnt need to raise a little capital. Buy a Ute with fibre glass cover or a van and do my best to insulate a sleeping area.
Get out of the dodgy area, find somewhere with strong local connections and get involved in community groups & associated services. You can volunteer at community gardens and will be rewarded with experience, fresh produce and relationships. Connect with Men's Sheds for access to tools and knowledge.
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Aug 25, 2017 15:47:07 GMT 10
I'd echo paranoia's suggestion.
Sell the unnecessary and buy a cheap van.
I'd also suggest him to do a self-assessment on possible business ideas.
Eg. A hacksaw, file, a couple G clamps and other very basic tools can be used to make many useful items from scavenged scrap metal and then sold. This also provides (for myself at least) a large amount of gratification and improves my feeling of self-worth which might make a huge difference to this person's mental wellbeing.
Another suggestion would be a chisel, carving knife and wood file and a sharpening stone and making wood carvings.
These types of items can be sold out of the side of the van at stall markets, tourist areas and similar spots.
Also swallow his pride and take full advantage of soup kitchens and other charity organisations for clothing, showers, etc.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Aug 25, 2017 21:28:52 GMT 10
Core problems, depressed [some call that lazy] and unemployable due to no skills.
Has he the IQ to learn skills? If his IQ is under 83, which might be the case since he spent his entire life doing unskilled labor, he may very well be screwed.
Build skills - The internet very much allows people to develop enough skills to be employable or some online work, though it also depends on your merit. Having no history isn't an issue if you can 'prove' the skills and are willing to start with the basics. Sales for instance, putting a couple of months into learning every single day can get you a gig fairly quickly and some places will take anyone willing to do it. Some sales such as inbound calling or telemarketing doesn't require particularly good social skills, though it does require enthusiasm and emotional resilience. There are MANY other things you can learn online and for free if you're willing to work very hard for it. Knowing what kinds of skills are needed is the key here and it takes time and the opposite of what he's been doing, aka sitting on his ass.
Still do laboring but work for yourself I have an uncle who made a fairly good business later in his life [he was 55 when he started it] by just gutting CBD offices. Contacts sure, which may be a problem for this guy, though I bet you there's builders who need people to do this. Would need an old small tip truck, perhaps outside his funds currently, though even a large trailer might do the trick.
Emotional health - Most likely he will be quite depressed and utilizing health services in that area to enable him to get to work. Many crappy therapists who just ride the wave of gov handout, though it's a possible pathway.
Utilize unemployment services - Whilst they're mostly crap it seems, some help in retraining and even funding can be had through them or one of the agencies
Drop off pamphlets, stack shelves, do a factory job, cleaning, possible, fruit picking, market gardener, deliveries, Uber etc. None require IQ and can be started now. Start a business doing mowing, garden maintenance etc. Can start small if you have to. Fairly seasonal of course, though preparations can begin right now.
In a nutshell... Skills, do anything, get happy.
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Post by Peter on Aug 25, 2017 21:53:49 GMT 10
I've been an employer for the past 20+ years. One of the best employees I ever had was as thick as two short planks, but he a) showed up every day (on time), and b) did what he was asked without hesitation. If he didn't understand an instruction, he stated "I don't know what you mean", so we'd explain it to him and he'd follow it to the letter. The guy genuinely wanted to help out and was pleased when told he'd done well.
Conversely I've had employees with IQ's well above average. They didn't want to work hard, so they didn't last long.
Attitude is 99% of the battle.
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Post by Peter on Aug 25, 2017 22:13:12 GMT 10
If he's really that bad, there is no hope for him. He needs to grow up, get off his arse, and do something useful.
Starting with something very easy - like raking leaves, etc - is a simple start. From there he can move up through other tasks (pulling weeds out of the ground, throwing rubbish in the bin, etc) and eventually get to a point where he can do labouring type work.
If this is beyond him, I'm afraid I have to agree with his doctor.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 26, 2017 7:02:21 GMT 10
Met a guy like that when I first came to Australia. It is very self destructive, this guy got diabetes and due to lack of exercise had circulation problems in his foot and eventually had to get his leg amputated. Or self inflicted. The doc is right a death spiral that leads to a very dark place, that can be so easily corrected.
I know of many alcoholics or people that smoked and eventually end up at the doc, who when they are told they have sclerosis of the liver or terminal lung cancer right there and then they suddenly find the motivation to quit - why could they have not found the motivation a few years earlier. People have the ability to change and overcome years of self abuse and addictions - they just need the right trigger. Living in the gutter under a highway bridge for a few months might be the trigger needed. Psychologist say that some people need to hit total rock bottom before they come to their senses and make positive changes.
A few trips to a psychologist to discuss life changes might be of benefit.
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Aug 26, 2017 9:34:39 GMT 10
If I met him, he'd tell me to piss off (forgive the expression). But he is still alive so somewhere deep down he has the will to live.
If I could, I'd ask him what makes life worth living? Because there IS at least one thing or person - maybe the son - and it will be that one thing that will make it worth fighting through everything for a better tomorrow.
He is still here because he doesn't want failure to be his legacy. He acts incorrigible, like he can't be helped. He gets a kick out of making life hard for people who try and "make him better". But under the don't-care outside and the heavy blanket of depression he knows that there is still hope.
He'll start working to improve his life when he ... well pleases, but he better hurry up before his chance is taken away from him.
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Aug 26, 2017 13:36:53 GMT 10
We had a discussion on this sort of thing in our group Even if elderly or disabled/injured if shtf you could be of value-cook laundry nursing tending vegetables brewing distilling child minding etc etc Unfortunately if you have a crap lazy poor team playing attitude it doesn't matter how good u are most people won't associate with u
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token
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Post by token on Aug 26, 2017 16:14:41 GMT 10
Id befriend him for a while. Preach the Gospel to him here and there if he was interested, and ask him if he wanted to catch up now and then and maybe go for a shoot or do something together. Some folk ive found are stuck, but want to get out, just need to help with pulling a rope and inch a month or so to help them along.
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token
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Post by token on Aug 26, 2017 17:48:02 GMT 10
He would mock your faith, Token. That's what he normally does. I think he is a lost cause, quite delusional. Beyond saving. So in the interest of developing this thread, how would others here deal with such a person if he endsd up in ykur sphere during or after a major event? You might be right mate, i do not know. In general i do very well with folk that way inclined and often get asked to visit such as a last ditch attempt, as i dont fit the picture or audio people generally expect. I hope the fella does something productive with his life anyways.
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Ammo9
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Post by Ammo9 on Aug 26, 2017 17:48:12 GMT 10
Depends on the extent of the break down, if I could forsee things improving any time soon and if they knew where I was holed up.
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token
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Post by token on Aug 26, 2017 17:57:54 GMT 10
So in the interest of developing this thread, how would others here deal with such a person if he endsd up in ykur sphere during or after a major event? In light of a response post major event, i might not have the time or care to respond the same as i could now. Further to this, if he were in my group now, rather than just someone i knew and wasnt dependent, my response would be very different. Due to time and trouble etc that events can bring, he would need to break out of his troubles or be on his own. Im all for helping folk, but they must help themselves unless they are clearly incapable of doing so (retarded, too old etc). He would need to contribute and would need to work on his weight and attitude very quickly. I deal with people in our groups the same today and have done for many years, and as you could imagine, in my profession we end up with all sorts, and sometimes the worst of the worst. At times unfortunately, i need to tell people to move on gently, and close the door, whilst others decide they want to go the hard way, oh well was their choice. My response is definitely different if the main is in our group or ends up as such, if he tries no problems, but if he doesnt when he can, no apologies as it was his choice to do such.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 26, 2017 18:28:05 GMT 10
Not sure if you have watched any of the series Bear Grylls Island. 14 guys are dropped of on a pacific island with no skills just PC geeks and every day guys. One or two of them were very lazy cry babies and in the end the other team members got them working and contributing it can be done. There have been a number of series, I only ever watched the first and half of the second - but what it taught me is that good leadership is the most important skill - forget about the survival skills.
The Island with Bear Grylls S01E01 Pilot
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gasman
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Post by gasman on Aug 26, 2017 20:05:19 GMT 10
Some people can surprise you and step up considerably under stress After shtf I don't think anyone or any group could tolerate people who couldn't contribute/ pull their weight Too much of a security risk if you just let them go! Difficult ethical dilemma
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Aug 30, 2017 8:41:05 GMT 10
I have a big heart for those who truly try and have the right attitude, even if problems get in the way. Often I can help them out because I can unwind what's going on in their head. As Peter correctly stated, attitude is great and you can certainly make up for IQ issues with being great otherwise. I also have no sympathy for those who don't try. None. This guy reaped what he sowed.
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Sept 7, 2017 15:28:38 GMT 10
One of the best pieces of wisdom I heard on bringing up children within a family context is, "Certain rights come with responsibility!" Other than your basic needs for food, shelter and clothing (as a child) you have no rights unless you are prepared to partake in family responsibilities. Many don't learn this as a child. As an Adult there is a verse from the Bible, 2 Thessalonians 3, (the Message bible) that states:
6-9 Our orders—backed up by the Master, Jesus—are to refuse to have anything to do with those among you who are lazy and refuse to work the way we taught you. Don’t permit them to freeload on the rest. We showed you how to pull your weight when we were with you, so get on with it. We didn’t sit around on our hands expecting others to take care of us. In fact, we worked our fingers to the bone, up half the night moonlighting so you wouldn’t be burdened with taking care of us. And it wasn’t because we didn’t have a right to your support; we did. We simply wanted to provide an example of diligence, hoping it would prove contagious.
10-13 Don’t you remember the rule we had when we lived with you? “If you don’t work, you don’t eat.” And now we’re getting reports that a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings are taking advantage of you. This must not be tolerated. We command them to get to work immediately—no excuses, no arguments—and earn their own keep. Friends, don’t slack off in doing your duty.
14-15 If anyone refuses to obey our clear command written in this letter, don’t let him get by with it. Point out such a person and refuse to subsidise his freeloading. Maybe then he’ll think twice. But don’t treat him as an enemy. Sit him down and talk about the problem as someone who cares.
So some thoughts.
1) The person has not learnt good habits. 2) There is no order in their life. 3) Has not had clear boundaries set as a child. 4) Possible mental illness and narcism. 5) Depression is not laziness, it can be a very debilitating thing to experience. Sometimes people go through so many life traumas that pile up on each other that they end up not coping with doing anything else but trying to survive what they are experiencing.
Another good vid from Jordan Peterson Shiney!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 10:11:54 GMT 10
Id befriend him for a while. Preach the Gospel to him here and there if he was interested, and ask him if he wanted to catch up now and then and maybe go for a shoot or do something together. Some folk ive found are stuck, but want to get out, just need to help with pulling a rope and inch a month or so to help them along. FFS don't get him started on the God delusion 😂 For starters I would invite him over for dinner every now and then and genuinely ask about his well being and encourag him seems to work .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 10:17:37 GMT 10
He would mock your faith, Token. That's what he normally does. I think he is a lost cause, quite delusional. Beyond saving. So in the interest of developing this thread, how would others here deal with such a person if he endsd up in ykur sphere during or after a major event? The Bus got you worried 🤣 that would be to funny , can I come to 😂
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Sept 13, 2017 17:54:32 GMT 10
Id befriend him for a while. Preach the Gospel to him here and there if he was interested, and ask him if he wanted to catch up now and then and maybe go for a shoot or do something together. Some folk ive found are stuck, but want to get out, just need to help with pulling a rope and inch a month or so to help them along. FFS don't get him started on the God delusion 😂 For starters I would invite him over for dinner every now and then and genuinely ask about his well being and encourag him seems to work . Um I would really like to know who decided one day that believing in God was a delusion? I see people parrot this statement so often without ever having investigated the evidence for them selves! A belief in God can come from a very deep and personal experience that can change your life. "I think the effect of all religious faith is negative... I think that faith teaches you to believe something without evidence, and that shuts your mind off... As a scientist and as an educator, I'm against the idea of faith -- the idea that you believe something simply because you believe it." Dawkins Dawkins reveals himself as someone who believes he has the answers to life and so has decided that those who have faith are deluded in some way. I believe not because I simply want to believe but because I have interpreted the evidence of God a certain way. That does not make me deluded at all just because Dawkins and those that follow him religiously believe there is no evidence for God. I always wonder what evidence they want. Maybe thats just what the man in this scenario needs, to stop thinking he is the centre of the universe and look outside of himself to something greater than his little world. A practise we all need to do from time to time.
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Sept 13, 2017 18:37:46 GMT 10
Those types of conversations can be great fun Frostbite, I used to have those with my father, we learn a lot from others in doing it respectfully. As for you being an angel God works in mysterious ways! lol
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