bce1
Ausprep Staff 
Posts: 819 
Likes: 1,581
|
Post by bce1 on Nov 13, 2017 16:00:57 GMT 10
Was doing a predominately prepper shop this afternoon - have a reasonable rotation programme - but my wife has got in the habit of restocking the pantry from the stores (which is good) but forgets to say what she has taken, so I was stocking up the gaps.
I looked around the supermarket with all the young kids and parents and just thought do I have any moral responsibility to these people? Obviously everyone is prepping for different things - Im a little apocalyptic in my thinking and planning and was just left with this really sad feeling that there is potential for a huge cull and these people may die - parents and their kids possible from starvation or violence and no one is taking any individual responsibility.
I know its an insurmountable problem - but I transiently just felt overwhelmed for the masses. A real sense of helplessness. Should you, could you do something? There is lots of talk of community, but I don't think you can. Aside from encouraging a 10-14 day natural disaster prep I think beyond that you just look like a nutter and everyone knows whose house to come to.
BCE
|
|
gasman
Senior Member
Posts: 466
Likes: 607
|
Post by gasman on Nov 13, 2017 16:16:35 GMT 10
That's a hard one
Especially coming from a caregivers perspective where you spend every day helping people
This has been discussed in our meets and our solution was to put ex military/ police on " the front gate"
I'm too damn soft and would try to help everyone so they've put me in the rear somewhere😞😞
|
|
paranoia
Senior Member
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 1,252
Email: para@ausprep.org
|
Post by paranoia on Nov 13, 2017 16:54:37 GMT 10
We obviously all have to decide for ourseves which moral responsibilities we take on but I do believe we have a responsibilty to help those around us. If you feel being prepared is a better state than being unprepared then I believe educating people and providing for those in need where you can falls under this responsibility. I'll clarify by saying that I don't believe we have a moral responsibility to actually fix the problem. So long as you do your best to make the world a better place you shouldn't have regrets. I think resiliency/preparedness can be encouraged without being 'that guy' and blowing your opsec if you're worried about that. Getting people more involved in outdoor/camping activities, growing food through things like community gardens and yes encouraging up to 2 weeks preparedness supplies will go a long way to making us more resilient as a country. You'll never get the majority of australians to take full personal responsibilty for their lives and families lives but every person just a little more prepared helps.  |
|
|
|
Post by SA Hunter on Nov 13, 2017 18:42:23 GMT 10
Great topic, and one I contemplate a lot.
My step-daughter has 3 kids, aged 7, 4, & 4 mths.
I gave her a printout from the Govt advising every family to have a min. 2 weeks emergency supply in case of an emergency. The deal was, she has 1 week supplies, which she keeps here, and i will provide the 2nd week.
Of course, she still has nothing.
I always wondered what would happen in a serious shtf situation - she knows I have a generator & food stored for many months! She will play the "poor me" with her & her partner. Problem is, they are all parasites, who will give nothing of any value, except hungry mouths to feed. Then there will be the "Oh, my friend has 2 kids, and she needs somewhere to stay, and partners mum & sister have nothing............."
If I had my way, I'd piss them off at the point of a rifle. But the Mrs wouldn't. She'd cave in, and our place would be a drop in centre for all the local losers and druggies, all thanks to her useless daughter.
I'm with you para - it's not my job to feed/provide for anyone, except my immediate family. The other issue, is that now she knows we have a good stash ( thanks big mouth Mrs ), leaving the house would be impossible, as she would be the first to break in and take what she can find ( hence, I have stores scattered and well hid throughout the house ).
Sure, there is the soft spot that says feed her, but then there is the other side that says "Bugger her, she is an adult, and she is not my responsibility".
|
|
spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Nov 13, 2017 19:45:21 GMT 10
A few random thoughts on this issue..
We have a moral responsibility towards direct family first - if giving to others affects your direct family that then it is not a choice you have to made it is a choice they made by not preparing. I give family members birthday and Christmas gifts like cheap 72h survival bucket and other items that might be useful post SHTF.
Bulk food is cheap to store like rice at $10 for 10kg, wheat beans as well. The general rule is if you want to eat you have to work, so put them to work making veg gardens and have lots of veg seed stored. No work no food.
The substance dependent one will go crazy after 3 days when supply runs out. Soon everyone will be walking and not that easy to get around. I am expecting an economic collapse then bio-warfare where movement will be very restricted due to risk of infection. Those without will have a big problem.
If pressure from family and friends gets too bad then bugout might be an option as I have plenty of fuel stored.
Another issue is most are very fussy eaters esp 'Australians' even if you give them some food like roo meat starving or not they might just not be willing to eat it and go look somewhere else.
Other than my direct family I don't have any family in Australia but do constantly encourage and give ideas to them of what to get to prepare - I have one brother that has started getting a few things. When visiting this year he gets out the air rifle and starts shooting in his back garden it is a bit surreal coming from Australia - you can walk into a shop and get.
|
|
spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Nov 13, 2017 19:54:47 GMT 10
I looked around the supermarket with all the young kids and parents and just thought do I have any moral responsibility to these people? Obviously everyone is prepping for different things - Im a little apocalyptic in my thinking and planning and was just left with this really sad feeling that there is potential for a huge cull and these people may die - parents and their kids possible from starvation or violence and no one is taking any individual responsibility. I was at John Hunter hospital the other day - it is a massive complex of a couple thousand medical professionals and patients and consulting rooms. I had the feeling that in the near future the hospital will be empty and those needing it't services would perish. People just going about their daily lives with no care of the future. Spending big dollars watching sports events no care and will just go to pieces if the grid went down. It is a very melancholy and a sad thought. Looking at world events and things unfolding I have a strong focus on prepping... |
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Nov 13, 2017 21:03:38 GMT 10
What a great topic.
I agree with others - as the man of my house, I take it upon myself to support my dependents (my wife, young kids, and elderly parents). Others (siblings, etc) make jokes to me about preparedness, so they've made their own beds. Let them lie in them.
BUT: my brothers and brothers-in-law are very capable at a variety of jobs (their wives are all useless at anything that doesn't involve ing about others owning more crap than they do). If the S truly HTF in a big way, I'd accept them as the men are all very hard working. If it was a minor disruption which I didn't think would eventuate into anything severe I'd let them see first-hand why they should prepare.
Although like others, Mrs Pete would cave long before me. I don't fall for sob-stories.
In terms of people we don't know (ie the folks at the shopping centre): they're grown-ups, and able to make their own decisions. Am I obliged to tell them how to feed themselves in the here-and-now? Should I tell them how to clean their houses? How to wipe their own backsides? No, I don't feel any sense of responsibility for those not under my care or within my sphere of influence.
|
|
|
|
Post by graynomad on Nov 14, 2017 7:52:15 GMT 10
I don't really have any family, the Mrs does but they aren't close either emotionally or physically. So I guess I'm in a good position in that regard.
I do have old friends but they aren't close by either.
Then there are there's my neighbours and new local new friends. My two closest neighbours are on my "team", so that's good. Others aren't and I do like a few of them but would have to turn them away. Giving them food is fraught with issues WRT them returning for more, depleting my supplies etc etc.
Would I take in somebody that had useful skills? Maybe, but I'm struggling to think of a skill we really need, medical is a big one I suppose, and maybe someone with good tactical knowledge.
|
|
remnantprep
Senior Member
People do not exist for the sake of governments!
Posts: 4,399 
Likes: 3,968
Email: remnant@ausprep.org
|
Post by remnantprep on Nov 14, 2017 10:02:09 GMT 10
Determining beforehand who you will support or not is a good idea! I know that my neighbours who run the Thai restaurant would def be on my care list. My sisters etc are too far away to be able to get to me in a SHTF but I have talked to all of them about needing to be prepared.
|
|
grumble
Senior Member
Posts: 457
Likes: 778
|
Post by grumble on Nov 14, 2017 10:28:18 GMT 10
I think the best actual answer to this question is
Do what helps you sleep best at night
you cant help everyone but everyone sure can help themselves
I have spent a lot of time in developing a real community with my nearest neighbours we have fire plans in place and the old retired matron who just happens to be the 11st house on the road is very active at keeping an eye on traffic for unwanted types and its just happens one of her security cameras we installed captures all the cars on the road whoops
In the event of everything falling apart we would all care for each other but the risk is would they bring extra baggage ? probably will but we already have the numbers and shared resources to use them extras in a beneficial way
The one thing I am thankful for is my wife is a cold hearted b*tch who would gladly let others starve over her own and there is no weakness in her stance of hers over yours even if it means taking from yours. This stance is born from the understanding that society doesn't give a sh*t about her in the good times so it will care even less when things are bad
Basically she was very ill once and passed out in a shopping centre and started slipping into a coma
People stepped over her and someone else stole her purse while she was laying on the floor with hundreds of people around her. she has never forgiven the average citizen for this as no one helped her apart from an army medic and a security guard
So now its kind of like pity anyone that comes bagging on our door for help as they may end up worse off
My wife has the sticker on her car that says
The hardest thing about a zombie apocalypse is pretending you're not excited!
I think she means it
|
|
fei
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Likes: 876
|
Post by fei on Nov 14, 2017 10:46:50 GMT 10
The one thing I am thankful for is my wife is a cold hearted b*tch who would gladly let others starve over her own and there is no weakness in her stance of hers over yours even if it means taking from yours. This stance is born from the understanding that society doesn't give a sh*t about her in the good times so it will care even less when things are bad I've lived in east Asia for two decades, mostly in China. Foreign visitors (and the younger generation here) and moan about anyone aged over 50 or so being so non-civic minded, and only caring about themselves, but don't seem to understand its because the oldies grew up in what basically was a SHTF situation -- the various campaigns that Mao Zedong brought in after taking over the country in 1949 led to millions dying of famine and violence; culminating in the Cultural Revolution that had kids dobbing in their parents for not believing in communist thought and others going around blowing things up. When you've grown up in that situation, your realise pretty quickly that you look after yourself and family first and bugger everyone else. |
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Nov 14, 2017 18:16:36 GMT 10
Response is probably dependent on magnitude of the situation and expected duration. In short term events; such as our 3 day blackout and Black Tuesday bushfire back in 05 ... I handed out a lot of stuff; knowing re-stock was possible. Make friends and influence people.
In a long term high magnitude event ... my cadre has enough 'stuff' to provision a larger formation. I intend to aggregate new members rapidly. In a long term event I think group size will matter ... and bigger is better. Always has been the case. That's how we ended up with this modern world and all the cool stuff we take for granted.
Small groups can't hide indefinitely ... they always get found eventually. Then they either join the big group and share all their stuff ... or ... battle followed by liquidation. Better to be in the leadership circle of the big and growing group right from the start if possible.
|
|
Morgo
Senior Member
Posts: 682
Likes: 662
|
Post by Morgo on Nov 14, 2017 19:11:54 GMT 10
"do I have any moral responsibility to these people?"
Nope
|
|
