tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 20, 2017 19:19:08 GMT 10
I usually bottle products with ball mason jars, using their two piece lids and their process (water bath in giant saucepan) or fowlers vacola jars and lids, using their process.
I know there are people here who use recycled jars with one piece lids, and that’s what this question is about.
With both the vacola and the mason jars and lids, 24 hrs after processing you remove the bit that would normally hold the lid on tight (clip for vacola and screw ring for mason) and you know you have a seal because the lid stays tightly on. Mason lids have a rubber bit that softens and seals. To remove vacola lids you use a special tool and with mason jars you need to use a spoon handle and twist - they are both very difficult to remove without some sort of tool.
So, I am making some batches of jam in small jars that I want to give away without asking for the jar back! (I’m happy to give away jars if they’ll use them, but I don’t want them going in the recycle bin). I found some nice looking, good size jars in target that say they are for preserving. They are not the right size for mason jar lids so I can’t just swap the lids.
For starters, for years there were no instructions to process sealed jars of jam after filling them, and I use to just screw on the lid while everything was hot and had no problems, and jam is what I’m using these jars for, so I’m not overly concerned.
But I am a stickler for following the rules especially where food safety is concerned, and these jars are for giving away. Now days the instructions are to water bath seal the jars after filling.
With a one piece lid how will I know if they are correctly sealed? Even when just putting the lid on as I did yrs ago (no further processing) the lid would suck in as it cooled, so that won’t tell me. And if the jars did seal as well as the mason jars, how would you ever get the lid off anyway??
For people who preserve using one piece screw on lids, how do you know that your jar has sealed and your food is safe?
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Post by spinifex on Nov 20, 2017 19:34:32 GMT 10
I think that With jams you can forego lids entirely and just use cellophane discs and rubber band method. They suck down to 'drum tight' and so you know you've made a perfect seal. The older farming wives used that system a lot when I was a youngster back in the 80's. I presume they still sell the plastic discs? Process described at www.preserveshop.co.uk/preserving-guide/sealing-jars |
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 20, 2017 19:58:53 GMT 10
Yes, up until recently official instructions said you didn’t need to process the jars, could just use cellophane or wax, etc. Those were the instructions I followed for many years and even use to teach a jam making workshop long long ago.
They give dire warnings of the dangers of doing that now though, so I was trying to follow the modern instructions while using cheap jars. And of course, it’s hard to get any advice on it from any official sources as they all have products to sell.
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 20, 2017 20:08:27 GMT 10
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Post by spinifex on Nov 21, 2017 17:47:53 GMT 10
What do you make of that article? I just think it's flat out alarmist.
If jam made and jarred the 'old' way with cellophane was as dodgy as that article says ... everyone I went to school with would have been crook all the time. It never happened.
Grandparents would have been hospitalised every day of the week. That never happened either.
There's so much sugar and acidulant in most recipes for home made jam that I reckon it could be smeared on wounds like Honey to prevent infection.
I reckon you nailed it ... these kinds of warnings are written up in the interest of selling products.
Bit like the current fad health scare of 'blue light' that will apparently burn the brains clean out of your kids ... if you don't install blue light filters on everything with a screen. How the heck did we ever survive the horrors of that big blue thing above our heads each day?
Tried looking up on FAO web? I got a lot of good info on preserving meat from there. They're not into selling anything and they're not paranoid about 'safety' for fear of lawsuits filed by morons.
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 22, 2017 8:53:10 GMT 10
Any thoughts on sealing of one piece lids?
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Nov 26, 2017 6:46:32 GMT 10
Any thoughts on sealing of one piece lids? Do you mean the ones you get on commercial jars with the safety button? |
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Nov 26, 2017 6:57:11 GMT 10
I have reused commercial jars with the pop down button heaps.
We used to wash them, then bake the jars and lids for 15min in the oven, then while they were still hot pour hot jam into them and put the lid on tight before they cooled (tricky with oven gloves but can be done).
It worked so well we would still have jam jars in the back of the cupboard sometimes 24-36 months later (a little discolored or crystallised sometimes but otherwise fine).
The button doesn't actually always suck down- if it was too cool when you put the lid on or you took too long to pour the jam in, it won't shrink enough to seal it properly. Also if there was something in the jar that went off, it produced gas that would pop the button up too.
Those safety buttons are used on commercial jars for a good reason - they are a good clear indicator of a broken seal, because a hole or tiny gap in the lid will break the pressure. When they don't seal they go in the fridge for immediate use.
Opening them when full and sealed is the same as when you opened it after you bought food in it - the shop did it instead but the idea is the same. Use some muscles, those rubberised squares for grip or many people have a jar opener if needed.
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 26, 2017 6:57:43 GMT 10
Any thoughts on sealing of one piece lids? Do you mean the ones you get on commercial jars with the safety button? The one piece lids I used yrs ago had the safety button, but I fond it very hard to see if the lids on this batch of jars that I bought have pulled in - no obvious safety button, and when comparing processed jars with unused ones I find it hard to see a difference. Although they are sold as preserving jars from target. I think I’ll just use them up on a couple of batches of jam for Christmas presents and make sure I give them all away so they are used quickly. I would have liked to always use these jars for gift jam - so kept some full jars on hand for that purpose, but perhaps it isn’t worth it when there isn’t even the safety button. |
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 26, 2017 6:58:55 GMT 10
I have reused commercial jars with the pop down button heaps. We used to wash them, then bake the jars and lids for 15min in the oven, then while they were still hot pour hot jam into them and put the lid on tight before they cooled (tricky with oven gloves but can be done). It worked so well we would still have jam jars in the back of the cupboard sometimes 24-36 months later (a little discolored or crystallised sometimes but otherwise fine). The button doesn't actually always suck down- if it was too cool when you put the lid on or you took too long to pour the jam in, it won't shrink enough to seal it properly. Also if there was something in the jar that went off, it produced gas that would pop the button up too. Those safety buttons are used on commercial jars for a good reason - they are a good clear indicator of a broken seal, because a hole or tiny gap in the lid will break the pressure. When they don't seal they go in the fridge for immediate use. Opening them when full and sealed is the same as when you opened it after you bought food in it - the shop did it instead but the idea is the same. Use some muscles, those rubberised squares for grip or many people have a jar opener if needed. This is what I did for yrs too. Just finding the jars I have this time a bit of a mystery with no safety button bit even. |
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Nov 26, 2017 6:59:33 GMT 10
Do you mean the ones you get on commercial jars with the safety button? The one piece lids I used yrs ago had the safety button, but I fond it very hard to see if the lids on this batch of jars that I bought have pulled in - no obvious safety button, and when comparing processed jars with unused ones I find it hard to see a difference. Although they are sold as preserving jars from target. I think I’ll just use them up on a couple of batches of jam for Christmas presents and make sure I give them all away so they are used quickly. I would have liked to always use these jars for gift jam - so kept some full jars on hand for that purpose, but perhaps it isn’t worth it when there isn’t even the safety button. Oh I get you now. Yeah no safety button makes it hard. At least jam is pretty low risk |
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 26, 2017 7:01:15 GMT 10
The one piece lids I used yrs ago had the safety button, but I fond it very hard to see if the lids on this batch of jars that I bought have pulled in - no obvious safety button, and when comparing processed jars with unused ones I find it hard to see a difference. Although they are sold as preserving jars from target. I think I’ll just use them up on a couple of batches of jam for Christmas presents and make sure I give them all away so they are used quickly. I would have liked to always use these jars for gift jam - so kept some full jars on hand for that purpose, but perhaps it isn’t worth it when there isn’t even the safety button. Oh I get you now. Yeah no safety button makes it hard. At least jam is pretty low risk Thanks for your help |
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blueshoes
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Post by blueshoes on Nov 26, 2017 7:03:29 GMT 10
Oh I get you now. Yeah no safety button makes it hard. At least jam is pretty low risk Thanks for your help you're welcome, but I don't think I was much help (sorry). I think I need to go make some jam now though, after all that talk |
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Post by spinifex on Nov 26, 2017 7:29:22 GMT 10
I imagine you're across this already ... but thought it worth mentioning for others ...
If you want lots of cheap jars with lids with the pop-up it's worth checking out Salvos, St Vinnies etc. In my part of the world (rural SA) they sell them by the box (used jam jars, pasta sauce jars etc.) I also found plenty of big Vacola jars with lids for $5 each.
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Nov 26, 2017 7:57:07 GMT 10
I imagine you're across this already ... but thought it worth mentioning for others ... If you want lots of cheap jars with lids with the pop-up it's worth checking out Salvos, St Vinnies etc. In my part of the world (rural SA) they sell them by the box (used jam jars, pasta sauce jars etc.) I also found plenty of big Vacola jars with lids for $5 each. It’s definitely vacola jars that I scrounge. We have way too many recycled jars already. Thanks. |
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Mar 2, 2019 11:06:34 GMT 10
What I have seen done.......
ONLY water bath process, NEVER pressure canning.
On things like jam, jelly, smaller jars that will will be used in a short amount of time, and give away items.
My sweetie will boil one piece metal lids in a small pot at a slow simmer/boil. Pull out and let dry a minute or so, and seal and process like normal.
The secret to getting a re-seal most of the time is with getting the rubber hot to reform as it will and form again to the jar rim. We vacuum seal a lot of things in jars, rice, chocolate bits, you name it. Again using a hot lid makes this process go better.
This is with North American style common Ball, Mason, Bernardin screw ring type jars.
Again this is what I have seen done.. Use this or any other info at your own risk.
About 98% of Sweeties jars are yard sale, thrift store, given to her by friends.
Just be sure to run your finger gently and carefully around the sealing edge to detect chips, imperfections, or other problems.
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