bce1
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Post by bce1 on Dec 31, 2018 17:40:24 GMT 10
Before Christmas I did a medical needs assessment in a third (really fourth) world country for an NGO.
some learning points:
Protein in your diet is really really important - rice gives you calories but no protein and problems arise really quickly - ditto for vitamin C and scurvy
Basic medicine is life saving - people are dying because of lack of clean water and very simple health care - simple to the point its hard to comprehend how the people involved can be so uneducated about personal and village hygiene.
Hundreds of thousands (millions?) would die without the World food programme and NGOs
Kerosene lamps and stoves are really dirty and bad for you health - breathing problems, eye problems- some pretty serious.
These people are living in a SHTF environment and it is plenty shit.
but worse ...... you cannot trust the bottled coke to be proper clean coke - they refill it with local shit and it’s really hard to tell.
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Dec 31, 2018 19:05:40 GMT 10
Loved the last one...
In some of the Crapistans I've had the joy of visiting vehicle fuel joins Coke as the most contaminated 'local product's you could imagine...
True story...once watched some locals fill a modern looking gas station underground tank in Mindanao every night of the week, all night long with the dirtiest garden hose you'd ever see by siphon from 44 gallon drums that looked like they'd been salvaged from a shipwreck...every morning the wealthy would pull up in Range rovers and big American SUV's and top up...the mechanics attached to the garage did a roaring trade cleaning out fuel systems!...
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Post by spinifex on Jan 1, 2019 9:06:53 GMT 10
All the best lessons in post SHTF living can be studied in 'real life' third world settings. Its the Preppers classroom and field trial all in one.
Lots of useful stuff can be observed in Asia for less extreme scenarios.
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fei
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Post by fei on Jan 1, 2019 10:37:52 GMT 10
All the best lessons in post SHTF living can be studied in 'real life' third world settings. Its the Preppers classroom and field trial all in one. Lots of useful stuff can be observed in Asia for less extreme scenarios. Yep, saw a doco series a few years back where they had a bunch of first-world (Kiwi from memory) twentysomethings living in slums for a week in India, Bangladesh and a few other countries. One bloke who did a lot of camping treated it like another backwoods backpacking trip and did fine, while the snowflakes all freaked out and continuously complained cos they couldn't charge their phones up anytime of the day like they were used to. Seems like a pretty good indicator of what you could expect to happen in the West post shtf (at least until reality sunk in about changed circumstances). |
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 1, 2019 11:20:37 GMT 10
All the best lessons in post SHTF living can be studied in 'real life' third world settings. Its the Preppers classroom and field trial all in one. Lots of useful stuff can be observed in Asia for less extreme scenarios. Yep, saw a doco series a few years back where they had a bunch of first-world (Kiwi from memory) twentysomethings living in slums for a week in India, Bangladesh and a few other countries. One bloke who did a lot of camping treated it like another backwoods backpacking trip and did fine, while the snowflakes all freaked out and continuously complained cos they couldn't charge their phones up anytime of the day like they were used to. Seems like a pretty good indicator of what you could expect to happen in the West post shtf (at least until reality sunk in about changed circumstances). Any chance you could find a link for this doco? Would be interesting to watch. |
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Jan 1, 2019 11:28:13 GMT 10
bce1 can you give some examples of the basic healthcare that was lacking? I assume not covering wounds, not washing and lack of refrigeration are up there as key issues?
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fei
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Post by fei on Jan 1, 2019 11:48:21 GMT 10
Yep, saw a doco series a few years back where they had a bunch of first-world (Kiwi from memory) twentysomethings living in slums for a week in India, Bangladesh and a few other countries. One bloke who did a lot of camping treated it like another backwoods backpacking trip and did fine, while the snowflakes all freaked out and continuously complained cos they couldn't charge their phones up anytime of the day like they were used to. Seems like a pretty good indicator of what you could expect to happen in the West post shtf (at least until reality sunk in about changed circumstances). Any chance you could find a link for this doco? Would be interesting to watch. I just had a google, but couldn't find the name. The BBC has had a few docos about slums in India though. This one is about a few poms sent to live like a local there - Slum Survivors (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b049bbsh). |
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Jan 1, 2019 13:29:38 GMT 10
TVNZ did one to where they used celebs...some adjusted, some were useless...I'll see if I can remember the name...for reality TV it was ok...
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jan 1, 2019 13:52:52 GMT 10
Before Christmas I did a medical needs assessment in a third (really fourth) world country for an NGO. some learning points: Protein in your diet is really really important - rice gives you calories but no protein and problems arise really quickly - ditto for vitamin C and scurvy Basic medicine is life saving - people are dying because of lack of clean water and very simple health care - simple to the point its hard to comprehend how the people involved can be so uneducated about personal and village hygiene. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) would die without the World food programme and NGOs Kerosene lamps and stoves are really dirty and bad for you health - breathing problems, eye problems- some pretty serious. These people are living in a SHTF environment and it is plenty shit. but worse ...... you cannot trust the bottled coke to be proper clean coke - they refill it with local shit and it’s really hard to tell. At the very least pack away equal weight in nutrient and protein dense food with all that shit carb stuff preppers seem to have an inherent affinity for storing by the metric tonne! Bad stuff such as factory produced and processed pasta, rice, flour etc! |
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Jan 1, 2019 14:09:26 GMT 10
At the very least pack away equal weight in nutrient and protein dense food with all that shit carb stuff preppers seem to have an inherent affinity for storing by the metric tonne! Bad stuff such as factory produced and processed pasta, rice, flour etc! Meat and veg are more available from the natural environment, carbs are the most difficult thing to obtain. Adults don't need that much protein. Hence vegetarians seem to manage. Carbs are cheap and easy to store longterm. Not bad idea to store cards by the metric tonne. One bird a day with air-rifle is more than daily protein requirements. In developing countries most of the wildlife and bird populations are very depleted. |
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Jan 1, 2019 16:06:12 GMT 10
Sure, I’m not having go at the people - if you are subsistence living I’m sure you lose focus and I’m sure much of the preventive information has been delivered in a way that is poorly understood.
Trash control - no effort made to mange waste, consequently huge problems with rats and insects = disease vectors.
Surface water control - you are in a country with malaria and you have multiple sources of stagnant water in your back yard.
You or your family have bad respiratory illness - everyone smokes aweful Chinese cigarettes and cooks with wood or charcoal or kero inside the house with bad ventilation - despite education programmes to the contrary.
Water - let me count the ways........ dirty water used for cooking and hygiene with no effort to clean it. The ‘clean’ water from wells and streams isn’t really clean by any public health definition - the NGOs deliver ways to make the water more potable - but no one uses them. Long drop toilets with drainage fields which clear run into the drinking water. The shitting in the street / public places is gross, but at a fundamental level shows lack of connecting poo with disease.
Wounds - why would you clean a wound? Just leave it visibly contaminated. What harm will that do. Clinic nurse tells you to keep wound clean, well she is woman so doesn’t know shit so I will do what I like.
These people aren’t stupid, but illiterate from a public and preventive health perspective - and I think the bulk of the public in Aus/NZ would fall into the same traps - because they are lazy and also illiterate from a public health perspective - what saves us is having a working ‘big brother’ public health structure over the top of us protecting us. All of these issues can be managed with a very basic knowledge and I think as prepper ‘ survivalists - having an awareness will make a difference to outcomes.
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Jan 1, 2019 16:31:18 GMT 10
Before Christmas I did a medical needs assessment in a third (really fourth) world country for an NGO. some learning points: Protein in your diet is really really important - rice gives you calories but no protein and problems arise really quickly - ditto for vitamin C and scurvy Basic medicine is life saving - people are dying because of lack of clean water and very simple health care - simple to the point its hard to comprehend how the people involved can be so uneducated about personal and village hygiene. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) would die without the World food programme and NGOs Kerosene lamps and stoves are really dirty and bad for you health - breathing problems, eye problems- some pretty serious. These people are living in a SHTF environment and it is plenty shit. but worse ...... you cannot trust the bottled coke to be proper clean coke - they refill it with local shit and it’s really hard to tell. At the very least pack away equal weight in nutrient and protein dense food with all that shit carb stuff preppers seem to have an inherent affinity for storing by the metric tonne! Bad stuff such as factory produced and processed pasta, rice, flour etc! Always remember the 3 food groups (of soldiering)...sugar, salt and fat...lol |
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Post by SA Hunter on Jan 1, 2019 18:26:03 GMT 10
Sure, I’m not having go at the people - if you are subsistence living I’m sure you lose focus and I’m sure much of the preventive information has been delivered in a way that is poorly understood. Trash control - no effort made to mange waste, consequently huge problems with rats and insects = disease vectors. Surface water control - you are in a country with malaria and you have multiple sources of stagnant water in your back yard. You or your family have bad respiratory illness - everyone smokes aweful Chinese cigarettes and cooks with wood or charcoal or kero inside the house with bad ventilation - despite education programmes to the contrary. Water - let me count the ways........ dirty water used for cooking and hygiene with no effort to clean it. The ‘clean’ water from wells and streams isn’t really clean by any public health definition - the NGOs deliver ways to make the water more potable - but no one uses them. Long drop toilets with drainage fields which clear run into the drinking water. The shitting in the street / public patients is gross, but at a fundamental level shows lack of connecting poo with disease. Wounds - why would you clean a wound? Just leave it visibly contaminated. What harm will that do. Clinic nurse tells you to keep wound clean, well she is woman so doesn’t know shit so I will do what I like. These people aren’t stupid, but illiterate from a public and preventive health perspective - and I think the bulk of the public in Aus/NZ would fall into the same traps - because they are lazy and also illiterate from a public health perspective - what saves us is having a working ‘big brother’ public health structure over the top of us protecting us. All of these issues can be managed with a very basic knowledge and I think as prepper ‘ survivalists - having an awareness will make a difference to outcomes. Really good points made here bce1. Thanks for your input. |
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Jan 1, 2019 19:42:11 GMT 10
Sure, I’m not having go at the people - if you are subsistence living I’m sure you lose focus and I’m sure much of the preventive information has been delivered in a way that is poorly understood. Trash control - no effort made to mange waste, consequently huge problems with rats and insects = disease vectors. Surface water control - you are in a country with malaria and you have multiple sources of stagnant water in your back yard. You or your family have bad respiratory illness - everyone smokes aweful Chinese cigarettes and cooks with wood or charcoal or kero inside the house with bad ventilation - despite education programmes to the contrary. Water - let me count the ways........ dirty water used for cooking and hygiene with no effort to clean it. The ‘clean’ water from wells and streams isn’t really clean by any public health definition - the NGOs deliver ways to make the water more potable - but no one uses them. Long drop toilets with drainage fields which clear run into the drinking water. The shitting in the street / public patients is gross, but at a fundamental level shows lack of connecting poo with disease. Wounds - why would you clean a wound? Just leave it visibly contaminated. What harm will that do. Clinic nurse tells you to keep wound clean, well she is woman so doesn’t know shit so I will do what I like. These people aren’t stupid, but illiterate from a public and preventive health perspective - and I think the bulk of the public in Aus/NZ would fall into the same traps - because they are lazy and also illiterate from a public health perspective - what saves us is having a working ‘big brother’ public health structure over the top of us protecting us. All of these issues can be managed with a very basic knowledge and I think as prepper ‘ survivalists - having an awareness will make a difference to outcomes. Wow it must be frustrating to see all that let alone work with the results. I noticed the same thing with preventive info in Sri Lanka where a lot of the public notifications are televised in English but approx only 10% of the population speak it. Those 10% are generally wealthy or educated and don’t need the advice. |
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Post by jonasparker on Jan 2, 2019 2:19:50 GMT 10
All the best lessons in post SHTF living can be studied in 'real life' third world settings. Its the Preppers classroom and field trial all in one. Lots of useful stuff can be observed in Asia for less extreme scenarios. I'll let others observe first-hand. Me? I'll read about it... |
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Post by spinifex on Jan 2, 2019 16:33:43 GMT 10
Sure, I’m not having go at the people - if you are subsistence living I’m sure you lose focus and I’m sure much of the preventive information has been delivered in a way that is poorly understood. Trash control - no effort made to mange waste, consequently huge problems with rats and insects = disease vectors. Surface water control - you are in a country with malaria and you have multiple sources of stagnant water in your back yard. You or your family have bad respiratory illness - everyone smokes aweful Chinese cigarettes and cooks with wood or charcoal or kero inside the house with bad ventilation - despite education programmes to the contrary. Water - let me count the ways........ dirty water used for cooking and hygiene with no effort to clean it. The ‘clean’ water from wells and streams isn’t really clean by any public health definition - the NGOs deliver ways to make the water more potable - but no one uses them. Long drop toilets with drainage fields which clear run into the drinking water. The shitting in the street / public places is gross, but at a fundamental level shows lack of connecting poo with disease. Wounds - why would you clean a wound? Just leave it visibly contaminated. What harm will that do. Clinic nurse tells you to keep wound clean, well she is woman so doesn’t know shit so I will do what I like. These people aren’t stupid, but illiterate from a public and preventive health perspective - and I think the bulk of the public in Aus/NZ would fall into the same traps - because they are lazy and also illiterate from a public health perspective - what saves us is having a working ‘big brother’ public health structure over the top of us protecting us. All of these issues can be managed with a very basic knowledge and I think as prepper ‘ survivalists - having an awareness will make a difference to outcomes. Difference between rural and townspeople? I get the impression that deep apathy can be a root cause of these kinds of behaviours and that is more likely to be encountered in dirt poor slum communities. |
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Jan 4, 2019 17:56:40 GMT 10
We covered both urban and rural - have to be honest both felt the same - the farmers perhaps a little less so.
Water and sewerage obviously worse in urban environments just by virtue of population. But same behaviours we’re seen both urban and rural.
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Pion
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Post by Pion on Jan 5, 2019 1:59:50 GMT 10
I wonder if it's a state of mind...in Timor I found both the hill folk and the town folk to be pretty clean considering the Indo's and the terrorists had pretty much buggered everything...in the Philippines there was just squalor everywhere but that just seemed to be down to heavy close population...in Eritrea, it's just a shithole full of shitheads...
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