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Post by spinifex on Mar 18, 2019 13:03:18 GMT 10
Anyone else note that one survivor from the Mosque said they thought the criminal gunman was police or 'security forces' there to protect them? They actually followed the gunmans instructions to lie on the floor believing he was there to protect them. 'special operations' elements of the police forces in democracies all over the world now dress up in black garb and full face masks. They show no signs of looking like police and they now look a lot like special forces hit squads or organised criminals. Why is that so? Why wear full face masks and look like the IRA in Belfast circa 1980's. It would be useful if the 'good guys' stopped looking like 'bad guys' so the rest of us can tell the difference in an emergency. Even the freaking UN wear bright blue headgear! (Viewed from front the small font 'police' patch would not be visible due to position of gun stock. And would be very hard to see with a shouldered weapon too.)   |
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Mar 18, 2019 13:18:38 GMT 10
The militarisation of our various Law Enforcement Agencies is most questionable! Enhanced "Officer Survivability" and similar justification is often parroted, the reality more so is it is purely a case of "mission creep" with the players dressing accordingly!
Edited to add:-
The aforementioned does not specifically take into account the various Police "Tactical Groups" which have their own contentious issues regarding organisational competence and operational validity (or lack thereof)!
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Mar 18, 2019 13:54:51 GMT 10
Is the cop behind the car talking on a radio or eating a donut?
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Post by spinifex on Mar 18, 2019 16:34:46 GMT 10
The militarisation of our various Law Enforcement Agencies is most questionable! Enhanced "Officer Survivability" and similar justification is often parroted, the reality more so is it is purely a case of "mission creep" with the players dressing accordingly! Edited to add:- The aforementioned does not specifically take into account the various Police "Tactical Groups" which have their own contentious issues regarding organisational competence and operational validity (or lack thereof)! Experts point out that even the terminology 'Law Enforcement' is completely misleading. Only the Courts enforce the law. Everyone else is policing it. |
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Mar 18, 2019 18:11:02 GMT 10
Interestingly there is a photo circulating of a couple of cops with guns in Chch with AFP badges around their necks - assume must have been in town for some reason and the locals gave them guns !!
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Post by WolfDen on Mar 18, 2019 20:47:58 GMT 10
I disagree. Im sure the the gunman from Christchurch didn't have POLICE written in bold letters on his back and front nor tried looking like LE and local LE don't run around with long weapons covered with white graffiti.
If they wanna believe that that gunman looked like "police or security force" god be with them.
The actual police officers that chased, caught and arrested the Piece Of Shit (POS) while wearing vests and carrying long guns clearly looked like POLICE.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Mar 19, 2019 3:50:31 GMT 10
Is the cop behind the car talking on a radio or eating a donut?
So you have cop and donut jokes there also it seems..... When my big brother was an under sheriff (highest you could be without being elected) he knew every cop/donut joke on the planet. I used to give him crap all the time "bad cop, no donut" then he would try to handcuff me to something. To this day I carry a handcuff key on me at all times.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Mar 19, 2019 4:13:21 GMT 10
If you want a 'get out of jail free' card just work in a donut shop.
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Post by spinifex on Mar 19, 2019 7:54:03 GMT 10
I disagree. Im sure the the gunman from Christchurch didn't have POLICE written in bold letters on his back and front nor tried looking like LE and local LE don't run around with long weapons covered with white graffiti. If you wanna believe that that gunman looked like "police or security force" god be with you. The actual police officers that chased, caught and arrested the Piece Of Shit (POS) while wearing vests and carrying long guns clearly looked like POLICE. Don't need God ... I have Google. Take another look. This looks like Police should look.  These are 'Law Enforcement'  And the guy laying down is the shooter  |
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Post by WolfDen on Mar 19, 2019 9:23:05 GMT 10
From what I have heard the "Gentlemen" in the second photo are NZSAS that were called to respond to the shooting.
In the last photo you can see a clear difference between scumbag and Law Enforcement.
Again LE do not run around with long guns covered with white graffiti. Also most times in active shooter situations the shooter is not dressed anything remotely like LE.
Note: made a change with the wording on first post..
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Mar 19, 2019 9:48:41 GMT 10
I dont believe the SAS rumour. The shooter was apprehended within 35 miñutes. Simply not enough time to go through the appropriate channel and get the chicken stranglers on site. If they did participate, it was after the show was over.
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Post by WolfDen on Mar 19, 2019 10:00:24 GMT 10
"If they did participate, it was after the show was over."
That is what I heard, but yes just unconfirmed rumours..
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Mar 19, 2019 13:13:12 GMT 10
From what I have heard the "Gentlemen" in the second photo are NZSAS that were called to respond to the shooting. In the last photo you can see a clear difference between scumbag and Law Enforcement. Again LE do not run around with long guns covered with white graffiti. Also most times in active shooter situations the shooter is not dressed anything remotely like LE. Note: made a change with the wording on first post.. The problem is every man and his dog taking a government paycheck wants that individual "operator" or "tacticool" look and to the average man on the street it would be very confusing! With only momentary contact all the citizen eyeballs is urban cam, black helmet, black hood, black chest rig / tactical vest (easily mistaken for Body Armour) black gun etc etc! He hasn't got time to ID or decipher the white text on the gat before he get a 5.56 round through the chest! |
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Post by WolfDen on Mar 19, 2019 14:03:22 GMT 10
I agree with everything you said Noreseman except that last line.
"He hasn't got time to ID or decipher the white text on the gat before he get a 5.56 round through the chest!"
This is a preparedness website, it's about being prepared. "Most" of us here try to be aware of our surroundings and try to see this coming before it happens or at least be prepared to act appropriately when it occurs.
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Post by frontsight on Mar 19, 2019 14:09:14 GMT 10
I must be minority here... But leave our cops alone.... Years ago, I have worn uniform, level 3 vest and carried assault rifle, still have some friends who serve.
How do you tell the difference between a geared up cop and a tacticool criminal? You just don't! Breivik, dressed in a homemade police uniform remember? I get I can buy most of the (fake) gear on eBay to look like most cops. Even if you give them pink vest you will still get terrorists who wear the same.
Must we ban urban camo and black pants, or blue cargo pants that are the same shade as police pants? Do only cops have it?
How do you tell difference between bank robbers and plain cloth detectives with a vest on? You don't neither! Some police department have plain cloth color of the day but doesn't help general public...
If the gear helps them in high risk situation better, then so be it. What I am against is police boss investing too much on gear but little training, typical police marksmanship is piss poor, not because of the officers' flaws just poor trainings.
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Post by spinifex on Mar 19, 2019 15:39:05 GMT 10
I agree with everything you said Noreseman except that last line. "He hasn't got time to ID or decipher the white text on the gat before he get a 5.56 round through the chest!" This is a preparedness website, it's about being prepared. "Most" of us here try to be aware of our surroundings and try to see this coming before it happens or at least be prepared to act appropriately when it occurs. Most people are NOT tactically aware. This is exactly the point. It is not in doubt because civilians during the shooting got confused and followed the gunmans instructions. Another example: do you think in the heat of the moment these look like police or even any kind of law? Nice strap across the word 'police' Whats with the cam hats? I'm in an 'on call' compliance job and my identifying gear is always in my car. Who the hell is the guy in the background FFS? Wonder his own lot didn't plug him!  |
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Post by WolfDen on Mar 19, 2019 15:48:03 GMT 10
Wait, did we just go from guys dressed up in "tac gear" to guys barely dressed all in this discussion?
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Post by spinifex on Mar 19, 2019 15:48:08 GMT 10
I must be minority here... But leave our cops alone.... Years ago, I have worn uniform, level 3 vest and carried assault rifle, still have some friends who serve. How do you tell the difference between a geared up cop and a tacticool criminal? You just don't! Breivik, dressed in a homemade police uniform remember? I get I can buy most of the (fake) gear on eBay to look like most cops. Even if you give them pink vest you will still get terrorists who wear the same. Must we ban urban camo and black pants, or blue cargo pants that are the same shade as police pants? Do only cops have it? How do you tell difference between bank robbers and plain cloth detectives with a vest on? You don't neither! Some police department have plain cloth color of the day but doesn't help general public... If the gear helps them in high risk situation better, then so be it. What I am against is police boss investing too much on gear but little training, typical police marksmanship is piss poor, not because of the officers' flaws just poor trainings. You're not in a minority at all. I have just this point: Police need to look like police if they want the public to identify them as such and have their respect IN FUTURE. |
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Post by spinifex on Mar 19, 2019 15:48:36 GMT 10
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Post by WolfDen on Mar 19, 2019 15:53:54 GMT 10
That weren't only armed with pistols. The footage I saw at least one of them was armed with a long gun. The picture in that article shows one of them with a long gun.
And yes hats off to rural police and all first responders that were there on that day.
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