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Post by SA Hunter on Jul 13, 2020 1:06:20 GMT 10
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Post by spinifex on Jul 13, 2020 17:54:26 GMT 10
Yes. That IS a very valid observation. I've always thought that the 'green movement' is actually a tool of government and multi-national corporate interests to manipulate business and consumer activities.
Even things like taxpayer funded solar panel subsidies are a carefully devised plan between Gov and the big power companies to make sure the big power companies get access to the power that homeowners and businesses are generating. Its all in the fine print of the subsidy agreements.
What this has resulted in is a cost reduction of 20% in wholesale generation prices, using infrastructure paid for, and maintained by, homeowners, business and taxpayers and a retail power price reduction of 2-4% depending on the company selling you power. And its all gauranteed by the fine print in the rebate agreements to last for 20 years.
So when I ultimately go solar I'll not take the taxpayer rebate and will go stand alone with my own battery. Problem is, if too many do that, the gov will mandate that if power lines go past your property you WILL pay a connection fee regardless of wether you are connected to it or not. They already do this with mains water supply here in SA.
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bug
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Post by bug on Jul 14, 2020 10:19:40 GMT 10
Yes. That IS a very valid observation. I've always thought that the 'green movement' is actually a tool of government and multi-national corporate interests to manipulate business and consumer activities. Even things like taxpayer funded solar panel subsidies are a carefully devised plan between Gov and the big power companies to make sure the big power companies get access to the power that homeowners and businesses are generating. Its all in the fine print of the subsidy agreements. What this has resulted in is a cost reduction of 20% in wholesale generation prices, using infrastructure paid for, and maintained by, homeowners, business and taxpayers and a retail power price reduction of 2-4% depending on the company selling you power. And its all gauranteed by the fine print in the rebate agreements to last for 20 years. So when I ultimately go solar I'll not take the taxpayer rebate and will go stand alone with my own battery. Problem is, if too many do that, the gov will mandate that if power lines go past your property you WILL pay a connection fee regardless of wether you are connected to it or not. They already do this with mains water supply here in SA. That doesn't make sense. Solar panels have caused mayhem on the distribution network. There's no reason that utilities would want this. Transformers on street supplies do not have automatic tap changers on them and were set for a nett load not something varying between load and generation. It causes the most problems in rural areas. All generators use exisiting lines to connect to. There's no reason that domestic generators would be any different. Retailers don't make much money from rooftop solar. Their business model revolves around buying at wholesale prices and selling retail. Reducing the average retail load per customer hurts them. On the Greens thing, I agree. The Greens have great environmental policies, but there are many socialists in it who have a very naiive positive view of China (who they still believe is socialist) and will rarely criticise it. There's now a conservative alternative to them called Sustainable Australia Party. Similar on the environment but without the socialist left wing crap. They are definitely not pro-china. Similar with Greenpeace. Years ago Bush and Ping visited Australia at the same time. They protested Bush but not Ping. |
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Post by spinifex on Jul 14, 2020 18:27:45 GMT 10
Wholesale generation cost is definately down 20%, I was listening to some industry watchdog bloke on radio talking about it the other day. So unless the cost of mining coal or extracting gas has dropped by that much (I doubt it?) the cost reduction must be coming from solar and wind? There's a bit said about it in here: www.reputex.com/research-insights/where-to-for-wholesale-electricity-prices-under-current-policy/"Short term commissioning of renewable energy capacity, along with investment under the VRET and QRET and the installation of small-scale rooftop solar, is forecast to maintain downward pressure on wholesale electricity prices though the 2020s."
Wholesale prices (average all regions) are shown to decline from around $80 per megawatt-hour (/MWh) toward $70/MWh over the next three years."Yes. We live rural and many folks here have issues getting their excess solar generation out into the grid. A fried of mine is furious that he's paid out for a big setup and will now battle to make his money back because he's not getting anywhere near the feed in value he was led to believe. He's stumping up for a battery now so he can catch his electricity during the day and use his own at night but I think even that might have been problematic as Origin has the right to suck power out of his battery at night too. The lesson: be wary of accepting government subsidies for anything. Nevertheless the power companies still profit greatly from the fine print 'requirements' that homeowner get saddled with in respect to allowing the companies guaranteed access to their power generation at very low cost. Wind power is huge here in SA and I expect our taxpayers helped fund its establishment as well. |
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Post by SA Hunter on Jul 14, 2020 22:09:07 GMT 10
Greens = Watermelons.
Green on the outside, Red in the middle.
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bug
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Post by bug on Jul 15, 2020 15:09:41 GMT 10
@spinifex, I may not have entirely grasped your point.
I agree totally about the downward pressure on wholesale electricity prices. But don't expect that to make it through to the retail price. The transmission system has hardly been touched since the late 1980s, so there's a huge number of projects that need to be paid for.
As I understand it, if you sign up to a 'free/subsidised battery' this is because a retailer wants to use this to manage their supply and yes, you'll need to adhere to any contract you sign up to. That shouldn't be the case if you buy your own battery though.
The economics of owning a battery are not there yet, due in part to the losses involved in the inverter and batteries themselves. I plan on doing it, but by virtue of an electric cars, not a standalone battery.
I'm not aware of any subsidies for wind power. The VRET and QRET are where the state government buys energy that it would have bought elsewhere anyway, so not a subsidy. Coal however does get some pretty hefty subsidies and 'friendly' loans.
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