Keith
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Post by Keith on Oct 30, 2013 8:02:09 GMT 10
If you are using a muzzle-loading gun, you will never be able to load quite as fast as a breech-loader, but you can get pretty close by using either a bullet board, or paper cartridges. The bullet board is a small wooden board with holes which hold round ball. If you need a quick second shot (or more), you simply center the ball over the muzzle & ram it down. The paper cartridge like modern cartridges holds powder & ball, they can also contain a combination of buckshot & ball. You simply teat the cartridge & pour the powder down the barrel, & then insert the whole paper cartridge on top & ram it down. Then you prime, tubesteak & fire.  This is the strap on my shot pouch. The strap holds a vent quill, powder measure, pricker, pan brush, & a two hole bullet board.
 
This is my belly box or cartridge box. It holds 10 cartridges.
 
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Post by Ausprep on Oct 30, 2013 8:20:19 GMT 10
Keith that is just awesome. I actually think you may convert some members over  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2013 9:34:11 GMT 10
Yeah - have never seen the paper cartridges before. They make sense and would drastically reduce the time in reloading. I guess it's annoying you still have to prime it, but saves having to do all the previous steps of adding everything separately.
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Oct 31, 2013 7:49:01 GMT 10
Using a muzzle-loading gun is not just about the gun itself, it is about the change in attitude that it creates. How many hunters do you know that use a modern firearm above .22 caliber that retrieve spent lead from downed game & remould it? This saves on the amount of lead you need to carry if you are using a muzzle-loader, because there are no brass shells or plastic cartridges to carry, nor do you need to carry a hand loader & primers.
How many people can make fire with a modern firearm without using gunpowder, I know I can't. But I can with a flintlock. How many people can use a modern firearm after the firing pin breaks or the lock malfunctions? As a goat stake yes, or a club. But if the lock breaks on a flintlock, assuming you do not have a spare lock or lock parts, you can continue to hunt with it as a tinderlock or matchlock.
If you are carrying a muzzle-loader, then you are carrying gunpowder. & this too can make fire in an emergency. Hunting with a muzzle-loader is like hunting with a bow, it takes more skill & you make sure of each shot & take it in close. This attitude will save ammo & make more kills.
Keith.
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Big Ted
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Post by Big Ted on Nov 1, 2013 22:09:08 GMT 10
Keith, Whats the maximum effective range on your muzzle loader and how fast is the lead travelling?
Do you think that it requires skill to make a 1000 metre shot and when is the last time you heard of a firing pin break in a modern firearm.
I have my grandfathers battle rifle from WW2. It's a Lee Enfield 303 produced in 1903 with a firing pin much the same as what is being produced today. I would suggest that this rifle has possibly fired off more rounds than what some of your flintlock weapons have and still it performs perfectly. I use this from time to time simply for a kick and it fires unfailingly always. Now I will admit that there is a section of rifles on the market that are of a certain quality that one could suggest that after many rounds through them, may let you down, but move on to the Remington 700 MSR Police specials and Sako TRG's and Accuracy internationals & high end Savage rilfes and your speaking about the best rifles ever made in our day and age. Do you think that these rifles would also fail, or have you had any experience with them failing at all?
As I have said in the past Keith I respect your way of living and your opinions mate but find it hard to understand your reasoning for feeling the way you do about such things like the firing pins in today's rifles.
Cheers mate.
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Big Ted
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Post by Big Ted on Nov 1, 2013 22:10:15 GMT 10
Hey I can always just rip out my leatherman and unplug a pill from a Lapua case and spill 100 grains of powder to light a fire too! LoL
Vavoompa!
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Nov 2, 2013 13:14:44 GMT 10
Hey I can always just rip out my leatherman and unplug a pill from a Lapua case and spill 100 grains of powder to light a fire too! LoL Vavoompa! Yes you can. Keith. |
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Nov 2, 2013 13:33:22 GMT 10
Keith, Whats the maximum effective range on your muzzle loader and how fast is the lead travelling? Do you think that it requires skill to make a 1000 metre shot and when is the last time you heard of a firing pin break in a modern firearm. I have my grandfathers battle rifle from WW2. It's a Lee Enfield 303 produced in 1903 with a firing pin much the same as what is being produced today. I would suggest that this rifle has possibly fired off more rounds than what some of your flintlock weapons have and still it performs perfectly. I use this from time to time simply for a kick and it fires unfailingly always. Now I will admit that there is a section of rifles on the market that are of a certain quality that one could suggest that after many rounds through them, may let you down, but move on to the Remington 700 MSR Police specials and Sako TRG's and Accuracy internationals & high end Savage rilfes and your speaking about the best rifles ever made in our day and age. Do you think that these rifles would also fail, or have you had any experience with them failing at all? As I have said in the past Keith I respect your way of living and your opinions mate but find it hard to understand your reasoning for feeling the way you do about such things like the firing pins in today's rifles. Cheers mate. If you mean how far can I shoot & still be accurate, I can only say that personally I never shoot over 50 yards. That is not to say that if you had sights on it & used a patched ball you could not shoot further. I like to get in close anyway, especially with no sights. Ballistics are not really my thing, it either drops game or it does not. The speed of my .60 caliber ball does not really concern me. Only once have I had experience with a .303 failing to fire. But the gun failing to fire is not the only point here. I only mention the ease of repair as another plus. My gun has never failed me either. The firing pin had to be replaced in one of my .22s recently. My BRNO on the other hand has worked unfailingly for the past 40 years, except one winter when it got so cold the firing pin failed to strike hard enough. Frozen lubricant. Constantly people assume that I do not like or trust modern firearms, I have never said that. I have & use modern firearms. But the facts are that the flintlock muzzle-loading gun has been used for at least the past 300 years, that is a good track record. No modern gun can match that. You still need to carry brass, you still need to carry a hand loader, you still need to carry lead or jacketed ammo if that is what you are using. My group too will be carrying modern firearms, but we will not be weighing ourselves down carrying extras to keep these firearms fed. If you think you are better off with a modern firearm for hunting and defence, then obviously you have to carry one. Personal choice. Keith. |
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Post by Ausprep on Nov 2, 2013 14:02:24 GMT 10
There's a few guys that attend the range i use, one being a range officer, that all have muzzle loaders. The range officer uses the 200yd targets, open sights. Hits the paper, but with no real accuracy.
The oldest guy in the world (Well, i reckon he is) uses the 100yrd board with open sights and has accuracy that would put most of us (ex and current mil excl) to shame.
I will be there this time next week and will approach them for some details and pics.
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Big Ted
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Post by Big Ted on Nov 2, 2013 15:23:18 GMT 10
Of course mate. Like I said just really trying to nut you out and understand the reasons behind it all. Cheers. |
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Nov 3, 2013 8:59:15 GMT 10
There's a few guys that attend the range i use, one being a range officer, that all have muzzle loaders. The range officer uses the 200yd targets, open sights. Hits the paper, but with no real accuracy. The oldest guy in the world (Well, i reckon he is) uses the 100yrd board with open sights and has accuracy that would put most of us (ex and current mil excl) to shame. I will be there this time next week and will approach them for some details and pics. Just like crafting a custom load for a modern firearm, you need to do the same with a muzzle-loading gun. What you are after when working a load up is the "optimum" load. A light load that will just get the lead to the target is generally the most accurate, but, it does not have the knock down power. The higher load definitely has the knock down power, but it is not as accurate over longer distances. So you need an optimum load, a load that is a compromise between the tow extremes. It needs to be reasonably accurate, but also has knock down power. Large muzzle-loader calibers have good stopping power, regardless of where the game is hit. A .22 for instance has to hit the target precisely if it is to take the target down. But a .60 cal ball will disable on impact. Even the .32 cal ML rifle is a better choice than a .22, but a .22 certainly has its place in any arsenal. Keith. |
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