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Post by illuminati on Dec 11, 2020 12:17:05 GMT 10
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Dec 11, 2020 13:54:27 GMT 10
👍 I’ll give it a go. what can i watch it on? YT?
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fei
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Post by fei on Dec 11, 2020 19:26:57 GMT 10
This guy is one of the originals who did all filming himself. Have seen his shows slagged off online about being too boring, but I guess if its a survival situation, then much better to do it his way then the Bear Grylls break-your-neck-through-foolhardiness way.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Dec 12, 2020 14:27:09 GMT 10
Enjoyed ep1
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Post by spinifex on Dec 12, 2020 19:52:34 GMT 10
Watched about 20 minutes of Ep 2 - Arizona desert.
The show should be called 'things you can do in the desert' because the actual 'survival' advice in the bits I saw is wrong.
Worst comment he makes is 'no point rationing your water'.
An inactive human resting in the shade can survive on 600ml per day once their body has been induced into moisture stress mode by not drinking for 12 hours.
The bloke had 4 litres of water ... if his goal is to 'survive' in the desert for 7 days all he needed to do was find a shaded spot and sit tight. Not start hiking around looking for scorpions to eat.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Dec 12, 2020 21:37:23 GMT 10
Watched about 20 minutes of Ep 2 - Arizona desert. The show should be called 'things you can do in the desert' because the actual 'survival' advice in the bits I saw is wrong. Worst comment he makes is 'no point rationing your water'. An inactive human resting in the shade can survive on 600ml per day once their body has been induced into moisture stress mode by not drinking for 12 hours. The bloke had 4 litres of water ... if his goal is to 'survive' in the desert for 7 days all he needed to do was find a shaded spot and sit tight. Not start hiking around looking for scorpions to eat. Most experts now teach that rationing water to the point one get dehydrated is a mistake. They teach take water till you run out... Just sitting in the shade in Australia outback it would be a minimum of 3-5l a day to survive. |
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Post by spinifex on Dec 13, 2020 7:46:25 GMT 10
Watched about 20 minutes of Ep 2 - Arizona desert. The show should be called 'things you can do in the desert' because the actual 'survival' advice in the bits I saw is wrong. Worst comment he makes is 'no point rationing your water'. An inactive human resting in the shade can survive on 600ml per day once their body has been induced into moisture stress mode by not drinking for 12 hours. The bloke had 4 litres of water ... if his goal is to 'survive' in the desert for 7 days all he needed to do was find a shaded spot and sit tight. Not start hiking around looking for scorpions to eat. Most experts now teach that rationing water to the point one get dehydrated is a mistake. They teach take water till you run out... Just sitting in the shade in Australia outback it would be a minimum of 3-5l a day to survive. So they think its much better to drink all 4 litres in a day, mindlessly wander around hoping to find a water source ... and then die quickly! Heaps of corpses have used that approach. Unless one is very confident, based on evidence, that they know they can reach a reliable water source ... stay put, stay inactive and consume 600ml per day and wait. Most experts are just theorists and sheisters. They mess around under contrived circumstances. Read accounts from people who have actually done it for real. Steve Callahan is a great example - survived on 600ml per day for 76 days getting baked inside an inflatable life raft in the tropics. I personally have spent many, many days in arid areas, in summer, being mildly active on just 1.5L per day. Although only for a maximum of 3 days at a time. |
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Post by illuminati on Dec 14, 2020 10:37:40 GMT 10
I’m no expert so I can’t vouch for how good or bad his advice is. I heard he gets better as time goes on, and he reflects on his earlier episodes so maybe some mistakes in earlier episodes he corrects in laters ones. Not sure.
Even if some things he says or demonstrates are wrong or bad he may still teach other things that are right that you didn’t know. Or inspire you to learn more. Maybe people at more advance levels won’t learn anything but noobs might learn a lot. And hopefully not pick up too many incorrect things.
I’d say like with most things take it with a grain of salt and do your own research. If 8/10 experts say one thing it’s probably right or mostly right. If 2 dissent maybe they have a point, maybe it’s a corner case. Most things when you dig into It aren’t so simple.
I’ve watch a couple of episodes and enjoyed them. Like the Alone series.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Dec 14, 2020 14:14:19 GMT 10
Most experts are just theorists and sheisters. They mess around under contrived circumstances. Read accounts from people who have actually done it for real. Steve Callahan is a great example - survived on 600ml per day for 76 days getting baked inside an inflatable life raft in the tropics. I personally have spent many, many days in arid areas, in summer, being mildly active on just 1.5L per day. Although only for a maximum of 3 days at a time. This topic needs more discussion, it is a 'hot' topic, most agree don't ration, but have a regular intake. Link below addresses your 76 day example.. www.offgridweb.com/preparation/the-myth-of-water-rationing-while-stranded-in-the-desert/outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/6875/ration-or-consume-waterwww.woodland-ways.co.uk/blog/overseas-expeditions/desert-survival-guide-rationing-water-loss/"Ration your water loss rather than your water! In hot arid environments it is important to stay hydrated. Reduced hydration levels make you more susceptible to heat related illness and in addition it can impair both physical and metal acumen making you more likely to make a mistake that could compound your situation. The old advice to ration water supplies is very out of date and all current thinking advocates, that whilst not to waste water, it is better to keep your hydration levels at their optimum. There are a number of documented incidents where people have been found dead from dehydration whilst still having water in the water bottles! It is far better to make every attempt to reduce the amount of water that is being lost by the body. Key to this is to seek shade and rest during the heat of the day. This simple decision can halve your water requirements. Keep as much as your skin area cover as possible, this not only increases the humidity near the skin reducing the evaporation rate of your sweat, it also protects you from the drying effects of the wind, radiation from the sun and reflected heat off the ground, and conduction from contact with warm surfaces." |
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Post by spinifex on Dec 14, 2020 19:31:09 GMT 10
Steve stuck with 600ml based on his knowledge of another pair of yachting survivors who went 117 days on that ration. I think they got it from Military experience in north africa in WW2.
And I'll stick with that proven 600ml ration approach based on my own experimentation into water rationing.
Who's to say what an 'optimum level' of hydration even is? My thinking is that 600ml per day in 3 serves probably IS the optimum lower limit for an inactive, sheltered person trying to max out the days. Certainly if one felt their mental faculties fading an extra 200ml serve in a day might be warranted. But that is a slippery slope to just guzzling the lot.
As I said earlier ... the exception to that is when you absolutely KNOW where the nearest reliable water is and KNOW that you can reach it travelling at night, at a slow walk and, if need be, using ALL your water in just one or two nights to make the distance in good mental and physical condition. And by KNOW I mean you drove past a stock water point at a particular measured distance and can follow a track or your own tracks back to it. Following cattle in to water might also be an option if you can observe which direction they are going when empty. (It would really suck to follow them on their outward walk when they are full of water!) 5km going the wrong way adds 10km to the whole trip when you finally follow them back the right way!
When going off in the desert boonies to places I'm not intimately familiar with I ALWAYS run a notebook recording odometer readings of water points and fencelines as I pass them. I also carry enough water (4l per day) to last the expected duration of my trip or a minimum of 7 days. And I do it in multiple small containers so any leak can't lose you 20L in a single event. Milk crates full of 2l bottles are great. Plus, that way, as you pass water points you can refill empty bottles to keep your stocks topped up. (Don't often drink it unless I have to though; as many stock bores/dams are fairly salty and rich in epsom salt that will give one the runs!)
For some areas I frequent I have created water maps (overlaid on aerial photomap base) showing all known bores, wells etc over hundreds of square KM of terrain.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Dec 14, 2020 20:03:17 GMT 10
That is good experience you have, acclimatisation players a big part.
I have the state NSW database of every registered bore. Having good topo maps is the key. Using landforms and property layouts one can easily locate the most likely water source. I work a lot with spatial information systems including satellite imagery. Free GPS app with images on a smart phone, takes all the fun out of survival. Looking at landforms and vegetation type is a big edge for hunting.
Survival handbooks teach to follow birds in the late afternoon as they go for a drink, esp if they congregate.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Dec 15, 2020 7:46:00 GMT 10
As I said earlier ... the exception to that is when you absolutely KNOW where the nearest reliable water is and KNOW that you can reach it travelling at night, at a slow walk and, if need be, using ALL your water in just one or two nights to make the distance in good mental and physical condition. And by KNOW I mean you drove past a stock water point at a particular measured distance and can follow a track or your own tracks back to it. Following cattle in to water might also be an option if you can observe which direction they are going when empty. (It would really suck to follow them on their outward walk when they are full of water!) 5km going the wrong way adds 10km to the whole trip when you finally follow them back the right way! When going off in the desert boonies to places I'm not intimately familiar with I ALWAYS run a notebook recording odometer readings of water points and fencelines as I pass them. I also carry enough water (4l per day) to last the expected duration of my trip or a minimum of 7 days. And I do it in multiple small containers so any leak can't lose you 20L in a single event. Milk crates full of 2l bottles are great. Plus, that way, as you pass water points you can refill empty bottles to keep your stocks topped up. (Don't often drink it unless I have to though; as many stock bores/dams are fairly salty and rich in epsom salt that will give one the runs!) For some areas I frequent I have created water maps (overlaid on aerial photomap base) showing all known bores, wells etc over hundreds of square KM of terrain. Yes 100% !! My desert time is limited but I've been in a few around the World, if you must travel go at night and know where you are going and why you are going! Lay up in the day and ration your sweat just as much as you ration your water! Start stressing in the mid day heat and you'll soon start breathing in and out of your mouth which will burn up body fluid like no tomorrow! There is no way a San Bushman gets to drink 1, 2 or 3 ltrs of water on the run and they do track and hunt during the day! Multiple small containers is exactly what you need, how often have you seen a traveller with a single big tank of water on their 4WD or camper? Damage that to a point that it all leaks away and you are stuffed! |
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Dec 15, 2020 22:30:42 GMT 10
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Dec 16, 2020 5:17:18 GMT 10
Long term adaption and short / long term acclimitasation are what make the difference and I believe you can learn an awful lot from people like the Bushman which I guess is the point I was trying to make. |
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Post by spinifex on Dec 16, 2020 8:29:30 GMT 10
No one is saying dehydration isn't dangerous. Those two news stories are not about survival. They are about foolishness and ignorance. They prove that vigorous activity mixed with high environmental temperatures and probable lack of drinking plus underlying medical conditions = death. When I was working around lake eyre a european tourist couple got into trouble and one perished ... I have included coroners inquest link. These people did not die from dehydration and heatstroke ... they died of sheer ignorance and stupidity. They could have self rescued their own vehicle in 10 minutes (which the police did) or just sat tight with a massive supply of drinking water until the station owner did the next water run ... they were just 700m from a full cattle trough and stock yards! All they had to do was not panic and wait. Or ... if the water point had monitoring telemetry (as a lot do today) ... disable that and a station worker will arrive within a day! Instead they flipped their shit in a huge panic and attempted a hike out that anyone with any outback experience would reject as impossible. 70km in 40+ heat in the shade (60+ in the sun on bare ground), no shade, and with a ration of 8.5L or water each! Interestingly, the corpse still had a few litres of water in her pack. Under those conditions no amount of water consumption would have helped - heatstroke cooked her brain to the point she probably had no grasp on reality. In the report it is worth noting this statement as it pertains to rationing: The minimum loss of fluid under ideal conditions is approximately 1200ml of fluid per day which must be replaced. Although skilled and tenacious survivors have absolutely proven living on half that amount is do-able under dire circumstances. www.lakeeyreyc.com/coroner.html |
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Dec 16, 2020 11:38:43 GMT 10
That is the point of the survival shows. Give good general advice as what to do in various situations. Amount of water intake needed to stay alive is focused on the average European tourist. Gives good advice as to decision making.
Thinking I have a bottle of water and only a few km walk down the road to the nearest station, needs to be based on good information, and what is a persons capabilities. Sure a marathon runner that is a survivalist will have different capabilities.
Most survival situations baring like a airplane crash are stupidity, hence the need for a survival show that gives the average Joe Blow advice on what to do if found in those situations. Having said that many local Aussies also get into trouble every year.
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Post by spinifex on Dec 16, 2020 15:31:30 GMT 10
How many survival shows have you seen where the people scoop out a shallow depression under their car and spend all day, every day for a couple of weeks laying very quietly beneath their vehicle drinking 0.6 to 1.2L per day? How many show people sitting quietly all day and then in the dead still of the evening listening out for cattle bellowing or a pump running (the diesel bore pumps can be heard for miles out in the desert at night) or to keep a look out for moving cattle. Its all boring as bat-shit stuff that can actually save your life.
TV does a poor job of demonstrating reality. Bear Grylls drinking his own piss out of a raw snakeskin after blindly wondering through a dunefield with no idea of whats up ahead is THE epitome of 'Survival stupidity'. But the public laps that drivel up and way to many think its 'real'.
The problem with just about every 'survival' show I've seen is the promote the concept of 'do something - do anything' over stay calm, stay logical, think things through. Bushfire survival is the same ... I personally know a family that perished in their car trying to 'do something' when the house that they left survived perfectly intact. It was solid brick in a clean, green garden!
Which is exactly what the perished woman near lake eyre did. She got it in her head that 'She had to do something'. Turns out she was utterly and fatally wrong. Her partner was found alive in their vehicle and her dead body was found by another vehicle coming their way. They/she just had to sit tight, maximise the survival time using the water available (which in this case was a huge amount), identify the existence of the stock water point and realise someone was coming to check that stock water eventually. Even without realising the stock water was there ... they would STILL have been rescued alive by the people that found the body on the track with plenty of their own water to spare.
Instead, even with her medical training, wondered off for a 70km hike under insane conditions and helpfully pissed her super-concentrated urine into a bottle "bear grylls style' so she could drink it later!
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