spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Jan 28, 2021 20:10:42 GMT 10
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 22:42:41 GMT 10
i was reading about this today, im not well versed in market terminology but it sounds as if wall street are getting somewhat of a payback by a massive community of redditors all banding together to play there own game against them. I hear that the "establishment" ie; top 1 percent dont like it are pulling the plug, turning off the game as it doesnt favor them LOL.
how good is this from that link you posted;
They are saying they are going to hold on selling but those in power want them to sell as its @#$%ing them up big time!! Apparently gamestop is just about dead as a company. I dont quite get the meaning behind it all, but the game is obviously rigged somehow and these redditors have taken advantage of it just by the size of their base.
|
|
doglover
Full Member
Prepping to make my way through this crazy world
Posts: 74
Likes: 111
|
Post by doglover on Jan 28, 2021 22:50:34 GMT 10
There are many things going on today that are making me very wary of our monetary systems. Tesla, which I really admire, is so over valued right now it’s insane, the whole markets meteoric rise during a pandemic, one third of small businesses in the US have closed and the pandemic is far from over, the spiraling debt not just in the US but globally by governments, etc..... there are warning bells going off everywhere yet no one seems to be worried. I have taken all my investments out of everything and am sitting on the sidelines for now. I’m loosing money with inflation but feel it’s better than going to Vegas and betting it all on red.... even being out of the market isn’t safe now as if the currency goes down your at risk there too. My prediction, for whatever it’s worth, is we are going to see world wide crashes of housing and financial markets in the near future. Followed by 10 years of depression. I just hope that doesn't trigger wars which will only further prolong people’s suffering. I feel that the prepper mindset will be the most valuable asset one could have to help get through it all, along with some luck. All I can say is get yourself in as good of order as you can now as your geography, skills and supplies will help determine how well you fair in tough times. On a more positive note, I’ve been poor before and survived just fine. Having nice things and comforts is great but they aren’t the most important in life. Health, family and friends are much more valuable. Quote of the day; ‘When Wall Street fell we were so poor we couldn’t tell’.
|
|
Beno
Senior Member
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 1,433
Location: Northern Rivers
|
Post by Beno on Jan 29, 2021 6:51:56 GMT 10
I’m not well versed on this topic either but i reckon blind freddy could tell you that this is a good example of what has been going on for years with other companies. There are big risks doing this sort of thing like not meeting established business goals such as making some profit or opening more Gamestops. This will lead to poor performance when it comes reporting time. Poor performance “should” lead to lower stock prices. So they have raised the capital now he “market” wants to see how they will make more money which probably won’t happen.
This is where i think toxic capitalism comes into play. An uber rich person dumps enough money into a stock to get the market excited then sell off early once the stock rises enough. There was no intention to improve the company or make new stuff, just a suitcase of money to artificially inflate numbers to make a quick dollar.
This has happened with property too in Australia. In the early days of our property insanity Sydney and Melbourne went off. The large cohort of oldies living there retired, sold up and went to places like northern NSW. They could buy upto 5, yes 5 houses up here for the sale price of their Sydney home. Many did this and in the space of two years property more than doubled. They inflated their own market and can make mega profit if they want to sell. Many just rent their other places for mega rents or air BnB for gross amounts of profit. Brinkworth did this in western NSW along the darling. Desert blocks went from $5 to $40 an acre once he started buying up. Locals could not pay that much and could not expand their own grazing businesses.
So my kids will never likely grow up the way i did. Wankers like chris hemsworth and his ilk have moved in and again pushed local prices higher. The demographics did a 180 and the culture of the place is a repellant to me. It’s Good for you if you like high end cafes, bakeries, tapas bars, plastic people etc instead of a good local fish n chip shop, general store and a few derros waiting to but a 3 pack of VB kingbrowns at 10am. I’d never let them buy into that world. There are heaps better places in Australia then fakesville coastal towns on the north coast.
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jan 29, 2021 7:30:32 GMT 10
So this is from another subreddit that I read, and the poster said that they copied it from someone else. That being said, it's a fantastic tl;dr and really explains what's going on in very simple terms but it ALSO highlights just how dangerous the markets are going to be from now on. Now that the media has got a hold of it, we'll start to see mum and dad investors piling on because they think that catching a short squeeze will make them overnight millionaires. Which it will... IF you know what you're doing and you know how to catch the wave. There's just as much chance of becoming an overnight millionaire and being destitute overnight as well though.
"If you guys haven’t been following the GameStop Stock Shit-Show, you really need to look into it. This is fooking hilarious.
Allow me to catch you up.
So this hedge fund called Melvin Capital wrote out some douchey article about how the smart investment move would be to short-sell GameStop stock. To put it simply, short-selling is essentially gambling that a stock’s price will drop. If it does, you make money. If it doesn’t, you end up paying out money for however much it goes up.
Well, this little article that Melvin wrote pissed off a dark, dank corner of the internet called Wall Street Bets. WSB is a hive of Ritalin-addled lunatics who treat the stock market like a fooking casino. These dudes will regularly gamble their life-savings on a single trade. It’s a glorious thing to watch.
The WSB crew has a weird fascination with certain stocks. They call them “meme stocks.” Tesla is one, AMD is another, and GameStop, arguably, is the most weirdly beloved meme stock. So for reasons that make sense only to the degenerates on WSB, Melvin trying to short-sell their meme was a declaration of war.
Yes, this is dumb. But it gets so fooking hilarious.
WSB decided to do a “short squeeze.” This is when you see people trying to short a stock, so you buy up that stock, and you get a bunch of other people to buy up that stock. With each purchase the price actually goes up. Since Melvin was trying to short the stock at a price of $20 per share, WSB wanted to get it as high above that price as humanly possible.
They got it up to $200 per share.
This means Melvin has to cover over $180 per share they bought. This came out to billions. fooking. Billions.
Melvin Capital, over night, was suddenly facing bankruptcy. Think about that. A bunch of self-identified degenerates on a fooking website were able to tank a fooking hedge fund. That’s hilarious.
Well, the rich and powerful don’t like seeing us plebeians fooking with one of their own. So Point72, another hedge fund, teamed up with a few other little funds, and they injected around THREE BILLION into Melvin Capital to keep them from spiraling. Essentially this meant the billionaire hedge fund crew were banding together to fight back against Wall Street Bets. And WSB just said “okay, no problem.”
Today the stock for GameStop is at $320 per share.
Melvin Capital lost all of that three billion they were given. It’s gone. They’re still fooked. Point72 gave a little over a billion of that injection, and that means that fund dropped from 17 billion to 16 billion. That means in less than 24 hours WSB managed to all but ensure one hedge fund will die and drop the value of another by 6% so far.
And remember, WSB are just a bunch of jackasses on the internet. They aren’t hedge fund guys, they aren’t millionaires or billionaires. This is literally being done by morons with a phone app coordinating to ruin billionaires’ lives because they can.
What we’re watching here with GameStop stocks is a bunch of rich people who are getting fooking wrecked, purely for entertainment, by the kind of middle-class and poor people they regularly lobby against and treat like this. This “eat the rich” via phone app. It’s “damn the man” with a meme-stock.
It’s fooking beautiful.
And because whoever is writing our reality lost all sense of subtlety after 2020, the icing on the cake is that the app the WSB crew are using to pull this off is a stock-trading app called Robin Hood. Yeah, as in steal from the rich and all that jazz.
Goddammit, I truly love living in the future."
|
|
|
Post by milspec on Jan 29, 2021 7:54:22 GMT 10
Stealth, thanks for that synopsis .. very interesting. I'm not savvy in that field so I can't say much on the topic. Nonetheless the implications could be far reaching and thus warrant a bit of a deeper look into it (for my own understanding).
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Jan 29, 2021 8:14:04 GMT 10
Any time a narrative like this is put out there ... be wary. It is designed to pull emotional strings.
Ir would not surprise me if the truth of the rise of that particular companies share price is due to some quite different reason.
I'd classify Tesla shares in that same suspicious category.
|
|
bug
Senior Member
Posts: 2,316
Likes: 1,934
|
Post by bug on Jan 29, 2021 8:21:03 GMT 10
This kind of thing is exactly what the system is designed to do. Melvin can't really complain here. Melvin thought they could profit from another company losing money, yet it was they who ended up losing. These were the pricks who created the Global Financial Crisis and walked away with billions from doing it.
The stockmarket is probably more akin to horseracing than a casino. You know what the horse is worth. What you're doing is betting that it will do better than in the past. 'Shorting' is the opposite of that. It's betting that a horse will lose, without picking a winner. This practice is banned in all sports. Many jockeys and athletes have been caught out betting against their team, with severe repercussions. Melvin are a mega-jockey who have now fallen off their horse.
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jan 29, 2021 8:31:25 GMT 10
Absolutely. There's always a risk when it comes to investing regardless of how much of a 'sure thing' an investment is. I stick to listed investment companies and exchange traded funds because they're one of the lowest risk options out there, and even THEY are just as liable to lose you money as gain it for you.
BUT... I don't believe that this is manufactured for a very simple reason. Yesterday, several small retail trading companies halted retail purchases on GameStop. They literally stopped the 'little guy' from buying, and allowed the hedge funds to continue trading as normal. This means that the hedge funds were able to trade GME stocks between themselves to try to reduce the stock prices in an attempt to halt the damage. It was an attempt to create a manufactured dip to make the retail buyers panic and sell out, which would free up the short traded stocks so they could buy and sell themselves to reduce their losses.
Robin Hood was one of the primary ones but several other small stock trading platforms did the same. There's now calls to have them investigated because that indicates that either they were pandering to the hedge funds OR they were in collusion. Either way, that ain't cool.
Now again in caps because I don't want anyone googling the story and thinking this post (or any other that I make) are somehow an endorsement of dipping your toes in;
DO NOT BUY STOCKS IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, AND DO NOT PUT UP MONEY THAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE NO MATTER WHICH STOCK YOU'RE LOOKING AT BUYING. IT IS NO DIFFERENT TO SINKING YOUR MONEY INTO POKIES AND THINKING YOU CAN BEAT THE MACHINE. YOU MIGHT... BUT YOU ALMOST CERTAINLY WON'T.
But damn if the little guy in me isn't loving this situation and cheering them on. Big business is suddenly realising the cost of corruption and arrogance and it's definitely giving me a laugh.
|
|
spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Jan 29, 2021 20:13:25 GMT 10
One of the first things my father told me about the stock markets, was the shoe shine boy story. Shortly there after biggest crash in US history. With every Tom dick and Harry now in stocks, and stocks even more over valued than 1929. Ripe for big crash.. time.com/5707876/1929-wall-street-crash/#:~:text=There%20is%20a%20famous%20story,Kennedy%20sold%20all%20of%20his There is a famous story, we don’t know if it’s true, about how in the late summer of 1929, a shoe-shine boy gave Joe Kennedy stock tips, and Kennedy, being a wise old investor, thought, “If shoe shine boys are giving stock tips, then it’s time to get out of the market.” So the story says Joe Kennedy sold all of his stocks and made a killing, and maybe that’s the beginning of the fortune that made JFK president three decades later
|
|
spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Jan 29, 2021 22:38:46 GMT 10
|
|
doglover
Full Member
Prepping to make my way through this crazy world
Posts: 74
Likes: 111
|
Post by doglover on Jan 29, 2021 23:00:08 GMT 10
All I am certain of in all this is the volatility and irrational valuation makes me really skeptical of the markets. Honestly I am sitting on the sidelines and waiting for a large crash or correction. Then I will consider the risks of buying back in. I have always been of the mindset for long and steady investing. This let’s get rich overnight on the next stock that will skyrocket in value is just about as reckless as going all in on a Vegas bet. Sure, it would be great to buy the next Tesla, Apple or Microsoft at 2$ a share but without a crystal ball it’s as safe as shooting craps.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2021 0:10:06 GMT 10
All I am certain of in all this is the volatility and irrational valuation makes me really skeptical of the markets. Honestly I am sitting on the sidelines and waiting for a large crash or correction. Then I will consider the risks of buying back in. I have always been of the mindset for long and steady investing. This let’s get rich overnight on the next stock that will skyrocket in value is just about as reckless as going all in on a Vegas bet. Sure, it would be great to buy the next Tesla, Apple or Microsoft at 2$ a share but without a crystal ball it’s as safe as shooting craps. Thats not what this about though, Tesla, Apple and Microsoft are market leaders, gamestop, blockbuster etc are market losers and are being manipulated by shady and what should be illegal practices, this is where wallstreetbets has made this obvious to the world by showing just how rigged the system really is.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2021 0:46:08 GMT 10
musk as the proverbial shoe shine boy ?
|
|
spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Jan 30, 2021 7:55:45 GMT 10
The madness continues, Facebook shut down Robinhood trading page with 147,000 subscribers. It is blatant corruption. www.zerohedge.com/markets/texas-ag-issues-cids-robinhood-citadel-others-over-shocking-coordination-between-hedgeTexas Attorney General Ken Paxton sent out a Civil Investigative Demand to 13 entities, including Robinhood and Citadel, regarding the "suspension of stock trading and investing" requiring higher margin reserves for trading certain companies and suspending chat platform activity. Other names which were also issued CIDs include Discord, Robinhood Markets, Robinhood Securities, Interactive Brokers, TD Ameritrade, TD Bank, E-Trade, WeBull Financial, Public Holdings, M1 Holdings, Citadel Financial, and Apex Clearing. An Asian billionaire is joining them, to get revenge on their corruption. www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/you-dad-redditor-shares-heartbreaking-reason-destroying-short-sellers-wsb-raids
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Jan 30, 2021 8:53:45 GMT 10
LMAO.
Well of course Space-chook doesn't want to be a tool for collusive trading involving little players.
I mean ... collusive trading is only for people who can afford the private jets to move them to the next $100 000 business lunch to have collusive conversations.
And besides ... those conversations aren't even illegal when they are happening in places like the Cayman Islands ... where there are no laws against it.
C'mon folks ... there are rules about this kind of thing!
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jan 30, 2021 13:13:28 GMT 10
Watching this whole story over the last week has told me one thing. I'm very comfortable with my hard assets that I've socked away.
This won't end with GameStop. If they manage to achieve what they seem to want to, there's no way they won't keep doing it. I think that to dismiss this as a single event that won't be remembered as more than a blip in a few months would be foolhardy. The only way that they can avoid this happening again is if every fund or group that trades in shorts sells out their positions asap even if they take a massive dip. There will be a good chunk that can't afford to, because the way that they make money is by holding them until a specific date. Those ones will be at risk of being squeezed. Regardless, the bloodbath phase comes when they have to get out whether intentionally or not.
My prediction is that we're going to see a price-gouge period and then suddenly the market will bottom out. Companies desperately selling out of their short positions to not get caught with their pants down combined with the all of the legislation that goes away in March in the US (and here, but make no mistake, this starts in the US market). Inflation will kick in because money is suddenly not worth as much as the people in power try to reduce the damage and boom. Of to the biggest Depression we've seen in a long time. I don't get doomsday-ish often, but this has definitely seen me looking at ways to put extra cash into metals while they're still as low as they are. The second that starts going up we'll know that it's all over lol.
|
|
|
Post by spinifex on Jan 30, 2021 15:35:19 GMT 10
My prediction is new laws will be rushed through to protect the Markets and maintain the status quo. The system is way to good for those at the top to let it be undermined. Expect prosecutions of those who are not officially anointed to play market shenanigans.
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jan 30, 2021 17:24:06 GMT 10
My prediction is new laws will be rushed through to protect the Markets and maintain the status quo. The system is way to good for those at the top to let it be undermined. Expect prosecutions of those who are not officially anointed to play market shenanigans. I think you could be right there, although I wonder if it will make a difference? Would it be closing the door when the horse has bolted? It seems like the kids that are doing all this (and the few folks with bulk dollaridoos that smell an opportunity) are just going to find another way. In the past, the status quo has been held because only the few had the understanding and education to make good on the opportunities. Now with the communication age and everyone able to learn anything online for free I wonder if it's too late. The blood in the water has probably started a revolution now whether the fat cats like it or not. I think it would take something pretty profound to stop that bus.
|
|
spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Jan 30, 2021 22:46:26 GMT 10
My prediction is new laws will be rushed through to protect the Markets and maintain the status quo. The system is way to good for those at the top to let it be undermined. Expect prosecutions of those who are not officially anointed to play market shenanigans. I think you could be right there, although I wonder if it will make a difference? Would it be closing the door when the horse has bolted? It seems like the kids that are doing all this (and the few folks with bulk dollaridoos that smell an opportunity) are just going to find another way. In the past, the status quo has been held because only the few had the understanding and education to make good on the opportunities. Now with the communication age and everyone able to learn anything online for free I wonder if it's too late. The blood in the water has probably started a revolution now whether the fat cats like it or not. I think it would take something pretty profound to stop that bus. Yeah to remove individual traders and make the markets no longer free and open is likely to cause even more chaos. The fat cats have a major dilemma. People power still matters, the deplorables are uprising - it is no doubt shaking the systems.
|
|