bce1
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Post by bce1 on Aug 10, 2021 7:02:02 GMT 10
IPCC comes out and says we are doomed if we don’t make substantial changes to how we live and reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.
Public - this is horrible, we must fix it. Stop burning oil and gas!
Same day. NZ runs out of electricity because of our reliance on renewable and unseasonal lack of wind and low hydro lake levels and a cold snap.
Public - this is outrageous, burn more gas and oil to make more power!
There is no way we get through this remotely intact
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Post by Joey on Aug 10, 2021 7:15:35 GMT 10
The only way forward is for woke Labor to pull their finger out and approve nuclear power.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Aug 10, 2021 8:18:51 GMT 10
Gas, oil, coal are not really the issue. It’s the 8+ billion and rising unchecked population that will kill the system.
I’m sick of the guilt applied to Australia and the way we live. We are a large country with a small, mobile and high tech population with generally excellent services and a range of options and aspirations that each individual can attain if they have a go. WE LIVE A LUXURIOUS LIFE THAT SHOULD BE THE ENVY OF THE WORLD!! But yet we are made to feel guilty for the failures of other countries and their over population and subsequent failure of their basic systems including ecosystems. 8 billion people requires rainforest to be destroyed, farmland to be abused and fisheries to be raped. A small high tech, healthy and free global population could have seen this globe face a different path but it is inevitable human locusts will destroy it no matter how many fancy windmills and solar panels we make. A small world population could have solved the energy issue with the blink of an eye but powering up 8+ billion to help most rise from poverty is a fallacy.
I don’t feel guilty for any of the worlds global warming issues at all. Again we are the model in most aspects. Small population could have meant we are buffered from major environmental issues cause we haven’t stressed the system. Lets look to China, india, Us and the swath of countries in Africa who have no control of their populations or who have economic polices to increase them. It’s a case of do something about your people first or bugger off and leave me alone.
Carbon tax my bum, we should put in place a population tax and then see what happens.
end rant.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Aug 10, 2021 9:55:37 GMT 10
Nah Beno, the fix is already in place. A dodgy vaccine for a bad flu that will decimate fertility and reduce global population. Opens popcorn, waits for BCE1 to bite
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Aug 10, 2021 10:00:16 GMT 10
Agree with you. But a bit like the COVID arguments, badly handled and should have been done differently, but we are where we are! Uncontrolled reproduction - acknowledging the background issues are complex - is the problem - because it is resource depletion across the board is the issue really and that is population driven. Planet can support ~billion for ever essentially - you can argue over the extract number but 10-15% of where we are. I don’t see a solution beyond nature collapsing our population. We could introduce non-homicidal depopulation over 100 years which would possibly work, but can you see that being tolerated!
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Aug 10, 2021 10:01:18 GMT 10
That agreement was with Beno, not you FB 😀 You sneaked in while I was typing!!!
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Aug 10, 2021 10:48:05 GMT 10
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Aug 10, 2021 12:38:56 GMT 10
Well I am a sneaky bugger.
I think covid is a sideshow. The main event will be nations jockeying to secure resources in a world where growing population, planet degradation and climate change puts intense pressure on food and water resources.
Much like China is doing now, moving to take control of resources in the South China Sea. And I suspect India and Pakistan may come to blows over water before too long.
It isn't by chance that my retreat has 400m permanent river frontage and almost ten acres of clear river flat suitable for cropping. And no irrigators upstream. Really being able to grow most of your own food may be the key to survival in decades to come.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 10, 2021 13:00:43 GMT 10
The anthropogenic climate pundits have been saying we have less than 5 years to make a change or the planet is doomed for more than 20y. Eg. build very expansive desalination plant as we would run our of water by 2012. 2012 came and all the dames were overflowing, and still overflowing.... Poor climate buggers they are going off the agenda, people have bigger problems to worry about. pandemic, crime and violence, unemployment, corruption and poverty... There are the issues that will be changing elected governments across the world. Also issues the main stream media do not focus on except pandemic fear mongering.... www.statista.com/chart/7008/what-does-the-world-worry-about/
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Post by Joey on Aug 10, 2021 13:45:55 GMT 10
Japan should be more worried about the $40B loss they made hosting the Olympics, and I hate to see what Qld will be left with after their games are done while the new sports complexes built up for the games start to rot due to lack of use and funding for their upkeep while our children's children are still paying the bill for their construction.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Aug 10, 2021 13:52:28 GMT 10
The Olympics should change their logo from coloured rings to a big fat white elephant. Qld was the only contender cause all the others have wised up to the economic hardship that the Olympics brings. The QLD premier is a bit of a fool.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Aug 10, 2021 14:18:50 GMT 10
The Olympics should change their logo from coloured rings to a big fat white elephant. Qld was the only contender cause all the others have wised up to the economic hardship that the Olympics brings. The QLD premier is a bit of a fool. Only a bunch of stupid Aussies would be fool enough to put their dummfaark hands up to host any Olympics with everything that is unfolding right now and on into the future!
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 10, 2021 15:37:00 GMT 10
The Olympics should change their logo from coloured rings to a big fat white elephant. Qld was the only contender cause all the others have wised up to the economic hardship that the Olympics brings. The QLD premier is a bit of a fool. Only a bunch of stupid Aussies would be fool enough to put their dummfaark hands up to host any Olympics with everything that is unfolding right now and on into the future! Australia spends way to much on sport, punches way above country's population and economy. It is like the ancient Roman empire's bread and circuses while the country rotted from the inside. "Roman politicians passed laws in 140 CE to keep the votes of poorer citizens, by introducing a grain dole: giving out cheap food and entertainment, "bread and circuses", became the most effective way to rise to power. giving the people bred and circuses"
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Tri-Polar
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Post by Tri-Polar on Aug 10, 2021 18:13:25 GMT 10
IPCC comes out and says we are doomed if we don’t make substantial changes to how we live and reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. Public - this is horrible, we must fix it. Stop burning oil and gas! Same day. NZ runs out of electricity because of our reliance on renewable and unseasonal lack of wind and low hydro lake levels and a cold snap. Public - this is outrageous, burn more gas and oil to make more power! There is no way we get through this remotely intact If people because more self sufficient, then this wouldnt be such an issue.
People run on solar, would take loads of power companies. Even more load off them if running battery back up. Add in some wind for the home as well, theres another plus.
With less load on power companies, they dont need to produce as much power.
Everyone has access to reliable power while cutting down on the oil burn/gas/emissions hoohaa people are raving on about.
Work together to solve a problem.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 10, 2021 18:46:52 GMT 10
If people because more self sufficient, then this wouldnt be such an issue. People run on solar, would take loads of power companies. Even more load off them if running battery back up. Add in some wind for the home as well, theres another plus. With less load on power companies, they dont need to produce as much power.
Everyone has access to reliable power while cutting down on the oil burn/gas/emissions hoohaa people are raving on about. Work together to solve a problem.
Power is a very complicated issue. In Spain they had massive private solar initiative. Huge reduction on the country power output. But the power companies started going broke as they still have to maintain the power infrastructure (power lines and transformers) to get power to hospitals and businesses and peoples houses in times of reduced solar radiation. Maintaining power infrastructure is almost as costly as generating the electricity. Then there is always the base load like in the mornings and late afternoons when there is a massive power draw, that wind and solar cant cope with.....
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Aug 10, 2021 22:03:16 GMT 10
maybe they government should make it way more easier to use solar power and have offgrid systems in households instead of making it harder and more expensive with so much red tape bullshit, like over-regulation and such. Like a separate entity away from energy companies that looks after purely solar powered setups and separates gas giants and fossil fuel giants from it. Never gonna happen though, too much money in fossil and gas, like too big to fail.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Aug 11, 2021 5:12:44 GMT 10
Not enough regulation is the problem sometimes. Like with the roof insulation debacle. Several young men died because the grubbyment are incompetent fools with zero understanding of human behaviour. And because they put a third rate singer in charge.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Aug 11, 2021 7:50:38 GMT 10
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Post by spinifex on Aug 11, 2021 8:52:34 GMT 10
Agree with you. But a bit like the COVID arguments, badly handled and should have been done differently, but we are where we are! Uncontrolled reproduction - acknowledging the background issues are complex - is the problem - because it is resource depletion across the board is the issue really and that is population driven. Planet can support ~billion for ever essentially - you can argue over the extract number but 10-15% of where we are. I don’t see a solution beyond nature collapsing our population. We could introduce non-homicidal depopulation over 100 years which would possibly work, but can you see that being tolerated! Buddy ... Nature IS collapsing us. Disease, weather extremes, social engineering gone wrong, serious resource depletion ... an increasingly belligerent China. Some impacts are external nature and some are coded into our own internal nature. We are frogs in a pot being brought to the boil. I see my job as crawling up on top of the other cooked frogs to stay out of the water until the fire goes out and its safe to go swimming again.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Aug 12, 2021 9:19:29 GMT 10
frostbite-farming our own food is the future
People, if ever you need a reason to get out of the cities, this is it. Get independent power from solar etc, get your own clean, unchlorinated, unfluridated water. Get enough land to support yourself and those who will come with you, about 2 acres per person of good arable land, and more of its not so good. You will need access to water for crops, say a dam (fitted with a solar powered pump so you are not reliant on fuel that probably wont be available), bucketing water to the gardens doesn't work, you will have more important things to do. Get your communications in order, a decent short wave radio, ham gear if you can, as the net, phones and so on will be one of the first casualties in the coming shut down. These lockouts are just a dry run for the real thing.
Coming soon, everything that is not mandatory is forbidden.
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