norseman
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Post by norseman on Sept 16, 2021 7:19:56 GMT 10
Australia going Nuke Subs! www.2gb.com/australia-set-to-go-nuclear-pm-strikes-international-defence-pact/The Australian Prime Minister, along with the United States and Britain, has announced a landmark new security pact to share advanced technologies, including nuclear submarine technology. The pact, known as AUKUS, includes the US helping Australia develop a nuclear submarine capability, which could see Australia abandon its $90 billion submarine deal with France. Scott Morrison has announced the nuclear submarines will be built in Adelaide. “But let me be clear,” Mr Morrison said, “Australia is not seeking to establish nuclear weapons or establish a civil nuclear capability.” The three countries are expected to shift their submarine and warship presence to counter China’s increasing regional presence north of Australia and in the highly-contested South China Sea. |
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Post by spinifex on Sept 16, 2021 8:15:00 GMT 10
In the mean time ... how about we stop exporting iron ore to China !!!
Lets wreck their steel industry without firing a shot !!! It'll be like strategic bombing without planes and bombs.
Might save us the hassle of sinking our own iron ore in the form of chinese warships at a later date too ...
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Sept 16, 2021 8:43:07 GMT 10
The North American history I have read tells about from the early 1930s or so to the late 1930s of how many ship loads of scrap iron going to Japan...
Then how much of that was sent back to North America propelled by gunpowder... ??
Anyone see a pattern well started here.... ??
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Post by milspec on Sept 16, 2021 10:21:04 GMT 10
Australia going Nuke Subs! www.2gb.com/australia-set-to-go-nuclear-pm-strikes-international-defence-pact/The Australian Prime Minister, along with the United States and Britain, has announced a landmark new security pact to share advanced technologies, including nuclear submarine technology. The pact, known as AUKUS, includes the US helping Australia develop a nuclear submarine capability, which could see Australia abandon its $90 billion submarine deal with France. Scott Morrison has announced the nuclear submarines will be built in Adelaide. “But let me be clear,” Mr Morrison said, “Australia is not seeking to establish nuclear weapons or establish a civil nuclear capability.” The three countries are expected to shift their submarine and warship presence to counter China’s increasing regional presence north of Australia and in the highly-contested South China Sea. Having nuclear powered attack subs (SSNs) is a lot different from having ballistic missile nuclear subs (SSBNs). SSNs will give us the ability to deploy much faster and probably some better evasive options and they reduce the need to expose masts which provide counterdetection opportunities. Those things are valuable but dont raise the stakes in so far as us becomming a nuclear threat. Its a long overdue move IMHO. |
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Sept 16, 2021 10:31:00 GMT 10
Australia going Nuke Subs! www.2gb.com/australia-set-to-go-nuclear-pm-strikes-international-defence-pact/The Australian Prime Minister, along with the United States and Britain, has announced a landmark new security pact to share advanced technologies, including nuclear submarine technology. The pact, known as AUKUS, includes the US helping Australia develop a nuclear submarine capability, which could see Australia abandon its $90 billion submarine deal with France. Scott Morrison has announced the nuclear submarines will be built in Adelaide. “But let me be clear,” Mr Morrison said, “Australia is not seeking to establish nuclear weapons or establish a civil nuclear capability.” The three countries are expected to shift their submarine and warship presence to counter China’s increasing regional presence north of Australia and in the highly-contested South China Sea. Having nuclear powered attack subs (SSNs) is a lot different from having ballistic missile nuclear subs (SSBNs). SSNs will give us the ability to deploy much faster and probably some better evasive options and they reduce the need to expose masts which provide counterdetection opportunities. Those things are valuable but dont raise the stakes in so far as us becomming a nuclear threat. Its a long overdue move IMHO. milspec Totally agree, but those Subs will have Nuke capability when the prevailing climate justifies a retrofit! I still think the Chinese will flick the switch sooner rather than later. If South Korea can do it maybe we could too! |
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Post by milspec on Sept 16, 2021 12:00:16 GMT 10
norseman ... mate, they really wont, ever. A boomer (SSBN) is a much bigger boat than an SSN, design of the hull to incorporate launch tubes is fundamental. It like saying a Hyundai getz could be retrofitted as a Dodge Ram... aint happening (sorry). As for what may happen with an encapsulated missile launchable from a Mk48 Torpedo tube ... might be more options there someday.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Sept 16, 2021 12:12:23 GMT 10
All that money wasted on subs, when they could have picked up all those M4's and AK's the yanks left in Afghan for free, handed them out to willing local school kids and gone the full Red Dawn on those Chinese arses.
I'll have a free M4 with Acog please, Mr Prime Minister.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Sept 16, 2021 13:27:01 GMT 10
norseman ... mate, they really wont, ever. A boomer (SSBN) is a much bigger boat than an SSN, design of the hull to incorporate launch tubes is fundamental. It like saying a Hyundai getz could be retrofitted as a Dodge Ram... aint happening (sorry). As for what may happen with an encapsulated missile launchable from a Mk48 Torpedo tube ... might be more options there someday. milspec It's not really my "thing", but I thought they already fired missiles out of torpedo tubes isn't that what the Koreans did from a diesel last Wednesday (week before I think)? Edited...........No you are right, just checked the ROK subs have vertical launch tubes! |
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Sept 16, 2021 14:45:35 GMT 10
Your PM may be stupid in some ways...
However not as bad in my opinion as here in North America..
Before the last election here in the far north.. It is said an email was found from the Canadian ambassador to China saying to his contacts there ....it will not be in Chinas best interest if the Liberals are not elected.... This in 2016...
It is said to have come to light lately during the Trump administration a general of the US Chiefs of Staff communicated to his equal in China that they would relate any info to them that Trump says, presumably, to the chiefs in confidence...
Many feeling if either or both of these are true, they are against the wall offences...
This all 3rd hand info I have read..
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Post by milspec on Sept 16, 2021 15:17:58 GMT 10
With this move .gov has made a big decision to ditch the existing sub project and in doing so it has dissed the French PM and potentially harm our EU free trade negotiations which are kinda important if we are not trading with China. So this tells me that .gov considers the prospect for armed conflict with China to be a very real possibility. Also, given that the UK & US are letting us into the nuclear club means that they also consider armed conflict with China as a realistic possibility. Our defence forces are supposed to be a deterrent and it appears we are upping the ante from deterring close regional navies to deterring a much more capable one.
It will be interesting to see what else comes out of the current round of talks.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Sept 16, 2021 15:54:55 GMT 10
Can we get enough crew for those subs? I seem to remember quite large monetary incentives being offered to retain experienced submariners some years ago.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Sept 16, 2021 17:08:44 GMT 10
The most bizarre thing is that the French subs were originally designed as nuclear propelled but Australia wanted them in diesel electric at a huge reconfiguration cost. Now we want nukes but are still canning the French subs. There is more to this story.
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Post by Joey on Sept 16, 2021 17:24:52 GMT 10
Even with the approval for nuclear-powered subs finally, I can bet a bottom dollar that DMO will still stuff the order up by not buying "off the shelf" like every other major defence procurement in the last 20yrs
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Post by milspec on Sept 16, 2021 19:57:44 GMT 10
The most bizarre thing is that the French subs were originally designed as nuclear propelled but Australia wanted them in diesel electric at a huge reconfiguration cost. Now we want nukes but are still canning the French subs. There is more to this story. Not necessarily. A bastardised redesign of the French option was never a great idea. Also buying the US system enhances interoperability. |
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Post by milspec on Sept 16, 2021 20:05:23 GMT 10
I'm sure the CCP's feelings are hurt by now since we know how incredibly tender they are. I haven't heard a response from them yet ? Probably busy typing up a new list of trade sanctions and dictating a new letter of demands to send to channel 9.
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lost
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Post by lost on Sept 17, 2021 0:23:38 GMT 10
I reckon this is all a smokescreen, never gonna happen.It should have been done years ago, watch this turn into a nothingburger like so many other endeavors our glorious leaders have spun into shit.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Sept 17, 2021 6:34:36 GMT 10
I reckon this is all a smokescreen, never gonna happen.It should have been done years ago, watch this turn into a nothingburger like so many other endeavors our glorious leaders have spun into shit. The lack of detail given suggests something will go wrong. It may not be a nothingburger though. It could end up as a maxijumbo burger with the lot with a side of cholesterol but still ending up tasting like shite. Not to follow up with developing a civil/military nuclear program as well as capacity for development and repairs would be a massive mistake. |
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Sept 17, 2021 7:05:39 GMT 10
We'll all be speaking Chinese by the time this becomes reality! 2040 projected timeline via several commentators, laughing my arse off! My favourite sub of all time is the "Emily Hobhouse" (South African, French built Daphne Class) which was responsible for more Special Forces team insertions and maritime patrols in hostile territory than any other Sub in post WW2 history! The book "Iron Fist From The Sea" is an awesome read and covers a lot of the missions.   |
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Post by Stealth on Sept 17, 2021 13:25:59 GMT 10
I'm more excited about a mobile coastal defence system (as it were) in the form of Tomahawks on the Hobart class vessels. That 'pop fizzzzzz' as they go off makes me grin every time I hear it. It's not the perfect coastal defence system that I'd like to see, but it's a million times better than the nothing we have now!
And to be honest, the French had proven that 'French adjusted timing' meant that we were going to get those subs far too late for them to be of any use. Good riddance to that project I say. Bring on the nuke subs!
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Post by Joey on Sept 17, 2021 17:24:45 GMT 10
I'm sure the CCP's feelings are hurt by now since we know how incredibly tender they are. I haven't heard a response from them yet ? Probably busy typing up a new list of trade sanctions and dictating a new letter of demands to send to channel 9. CCP is all over the news saying it will break our non-nuclear proliferation treaty and cause more instability in the region, talking it up as if they will be armed with nuke warheads |
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