bce1
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Post by bce1 on Feb 12, 2022 16:27:40 GMT 10
Just following on from the collapse health care thread……. And because I’m sick of talking about COVID!! We can see Australia is a bit tribal and vaccine mandates and lockdown protests have showed that. But how splintered do you think it is deep down? What are the big “tribal” groups? I think it is way more complicated than left or right or Muslim vs Christian. I’m a serious doomer, i prep for earthquakes and fires but I think we are on a trajectory for proper collapse….. what would be needed to cause a balkanisation of Australia?
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Post by Stealth on Feb 12, 2022 17:25:59 GMT 10
Initially I thought city vs. country would happen pretty quickly... And I still do, to a degree. But I think that anyone that has a half a brain cell will get out of dodge as soon as they can. I can see the population spreading out across the country in a way that sort of started when covid lockdowns were happening.
"Eat the rich" is a common catch-cry already, even if only ironically. But that's a clear metaphor for what would happen if we were suddenly facing an entirely collapsed society. Anyone that displays overt wealth will likely be a target for attack. Whether for theft or purely as a target of anger and frustration. Likely anyone that's not considered a 'local' will be a target for any opportunistic unsavories that haven't yet been kicked out of the community. I think at the end of the day people who're like-minded will congregate together in communities or splinter away into their own communities. I don't necessarily think it'll be community vs. community though. General distrust? Sure. A bit of outsider wariness absolutely. But I honestly see us just going back into almost a pre-industrialist era experience again. Living local out of necessity. Probably bushrangers again. Wonder how much people will romanticise them when they're the ones being rustled for sheep or having their meager stocks raided!
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iceage
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Post by iceage on Feb 12, 2022 18:04:08 GMT 10
Just following on from the collapse health care thread……. And because I’m sick of talking about COVID!! We can see Australia is a bit tribal and vaccine mandates and lockdown protests have showed that. But how splintered do you think it is deep down? What are the big “tribal” groups? I think it is way more complicated than left or right or Muslim vs Christian. I’m a serious doomer, i prep for earthquakes and fires but I think we are on a trajectory for proper collapse….. what would be needed to cause a balkanisation of Australia?
I think we are becoming more and more balkanised or we already are, state premiers have shown that to be true the last two years. If i had to say what tribal factions are alive today albeit manufactured by the government over time is the right and left political like tribes. Its been great for the government insofar as making people fight with eachother in a tribal like fashion.
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 12, 2022 18:19:08 GMT 10
I think we are fine, yes there are a few fringe groups but they only make minor waves. I thought if this woke crap that has taken hold in the US made it here we are in trouble but I get the sense that the US is waking up (no pun intended) to it and it may be turning around. Jordan Peterson is in the middle of it over there but I was at his first visit here in Melbourne (admittedly it was years ago) and there was hardly a whimper from our media, let alone protests that shut him down over in the US & Canada. We have a very high tolerance for detrimental things that effect our society whether it be political, environmental or whatever. It may make us seem like sheep in some respects but it does make for a stable society. Sometimes the powers that be take advantage of it but I think deep down we can get dark and evil with the best of them. I think if we are pushed too far we will push back. I just wish we would collectively grow a set and become a republic...stop answering to all these wannabe empires. I reckon we should even declare neutrality and become the Switzerland of Asia...let the world do what it wants, we have everything we need to become self-sufficient (prep nation?!) while becoming rich on exports but that's probably a bridge too far for my lifetime...showing a bit of my Libertarian side there I guess... I just wish we could think bigger, maybe we need a good arse kicking like Germany & Japan - it worked for them!
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bushdoc2
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Post by bushdoc2 on Feb 12, 2022 20:32:51 GMT 10
Tactile: Germany and Japan were disciplined, geneous societies with SFA concept of entitlement (the people who rebuilt after WW@ were kids of the depression). I knew a bloke whose job as a kid was to chip mortar off bricks to be reused in Germany after WW2. Balkanisation causes: 1. Local disaster: anyone with a house that was obviously prepared against, say, bushfire (costs a lot, so you must be a rich b@stard). A lot of small communities pull together afterwards, and it pays to be PART of your COMMUNITY, not just the selfish bugger sitting on a pile of preps. If your own land is damaged, but the house is ok, people will think you just lucky, especially if you were busy fighting fires on their place at the time. 2. China takes an overt hold: are you for/against them? Certain suburbs will be interesting to watch...or avoid. 3. Shortage of anything essential to all: (jobs, food, petrol, water, medical services). Haves vs have-nots. (There are haves in this country, and "could-haves" a lot of the time, but don't be the smug ant telling the starving grasshopper he's made his bed so lie in it).
PS: "geneous" had a prefix, which started with an "H", bit is clearly edited by LGBTI-friendly software!
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 12, 2022 21:36:49 GMT 10
Tactile: Germany and Japan were disciplined, geneous societies with SFA concept of entitlement (the people who rebuilt after WW@ were kids of the depression). I knew a bloke whose job as a kid was to chip mortar off bricks to be reused in Germany after WW2. Both countries thought they were master races where surrounding countries were to be pillaged for their resources and their people at best taken as slave labor and at worst murdered in their millions just to clear them out of their "new" lands.
I don't know about you but that goes a bit beyond entitled to me?
After getting their arses well and truly kicked, they knuckled down for a generation and got what they originally wanted (global respect, wealth, market dominance in specialised sectors, etc) anyway - dickheads! Could of saved the world a heap of hassle. And this is the lesson to be learned. China might need to learnt it the hard way as well...maybe they will be the smart ones, they're half way there already.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Feb 13, 2022 5:28:06 GMT 10
Just following on from the collapse health care thread……. And because I’m sick of talking about COVID!! We can see Australia is a bit tribal and vaccine mandates and lockdown protests have showed that. But how splintered do you think it is deep down? What are the big “tribal” groups? I think it is way more complicated than left or right or Muslim vs Christian. I’m a serious doomer, i prep for earthquakes and fires but I think we are on a trajectory for proper collapse….. what would be needed to cause a balkanisation of Australia? Great post bce1 !
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 13, 2022 7:18:27 GMT 10
As for what are our tribal groups...if a populist movement comes into power it's the intellectuals against these nutjobs. That's how it seems to end up over history. Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Mihn...they all did it - went after the people who could successfully argue against their moronic ideas.
If you have a university degree your preps wont save you...a boat or plane is your only hope! And it needs to be early!
Even now...look at the people who are pouring out of Afghanistan and the ones who are being targeted...the country is being gutted for any potential of having a future.
Another thought experiment - If Pauline Hanson had got power in her early, nutbag fish & chip days, who would she of gone after? Asians? Muslims? First Nations? There may of been a crack down on them initially but I reckon she would of gone after her political opponents a lot harder.
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bug
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Post by bug on Feb 13, 2022 9:02:18 GMT 10
Motorcycle gangs will be the issue. Police and govt can't stop them now. Who's going to stop them when they show up? (Insert random self proclaimed hero post here.) Crime groups are a massive problem. In the middle east they've repeatedly formed their feifdoms under the guise of religion, when a failed state or ongoing conflict emerges.
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Post by Stealth on Feb 13, 2022 9:38:47 GMT 10
Tactile: Germany and Japan were disciplined, geneous societies with SFA concept of entitlement (the people who rebuilt after WW@ were kids of the depression). I knew a bloke whose job as a kid was to chip mortar off bricks to be reused in Germany after WW2. Balkanisation causes: 1. Local disaster: anyone with a house that was obviously prepared against, say, bushfire (costs a lot, so you must be a rich b@stard). A lot of small communities pull together afterwards, and it pays to be PART of your COMMUNITY, not just the selfish bugger sitting on a pile of preps. If your own land is damaged, but the house is ok, people will think you just lucky, especially if you were busy fighting fires on their place at the time. 2. China takes an overt hold: are you for/against them? Certain suburbs will be interesting to watch...or avoid. 3. Shortage of anything essential to all: (jobs, food, petrol, water, medical services). Haves vs have-nots. (There are haves in this country, and "could-haves" a lot of the time, but don't be the smug ant telling the starving grasshopper he's made his bed so lie in it). I feel this deep in my bones. People need people to survive. It doesn't matter how your pantry is stuffed, your guns are loaded, and your walls are high. History shows that even the most prepared will end up running out of supplies and powder when the siege-minded get determined. You can only put out so many fires alone. The haves vs. the have nots or as you say, could haves... Absolutely is where I see the line being drawn. Especially the haves castigating the could haves. No one wants to be told that they messed up, especially by someone that didn't mess up. That makes you a target. But some people will do it because their ego demands it. I suspect that those types will whittle each other down pretty quickly. Hopefully anyway, so the rest of us can just get on with things! Lol.
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Post by Joey on Feb 13, 2022 9:50:36 GMT 10
Tactile: Germany and Japan were disciplined, generous societies with SFA concept of entitlement (the people who rebuilt after WW@ were kids of the depression). I knew a bloke whose job as a kid was to chip mortar off bricks to be reused in Germany after WW2. Both countries thought they were master races where surrounding countries were to be pillaged for their resources and their people at best taken as slave labor and at worst murdered in their millions just to clear them out of their "new" lands.
Chyna
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 13, 2022 9:57:15 GMT 10
^Lessons not learned maybe...
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bug
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Post by bug on Feb 13, 2022 11:14:54 GMT 10
Tactile: Germany and Japan were disciplined, geneous societies with SFA concept of entitlement (the people who rebuilt after WW@ were kids of the depression). I knew a bloke whose job as a kid was to chip mortar off bricks to be reused in Germany after WW2. Balkanisation causes: 1. Local disaster: anyone with a house that was obviously prepared against, say, bushfire (costs a lot, so you must be a rich b@stard). A lot of small communities pull together afterwards, and it pays to be PART of your COMMUNITY, not just the selfish bugger sitting on a pile of preps. If your own land is damaged, but the house is ok, people will think you just lucky, especially if you were busy fighting fires on their place at the time. 2. China takes an overt hold: are you for/against them? Certain suburbs will be interesting to watch...or avoid. 3. Shortage of anything essential to all: (jobs, food, petrol, water, medical services). Haves vs have-nots. (There are haves in this country, and "could-haves" a lot of the time, but don't be the smug ant telling the starving grasshopper he's made his bed so lie in it). I feel this deep in my bones. People need people to survive. It doesn't matter how your pantry is stuffed, your guns are loaded, and your walls are high. History shows that even the most prepared will end up running out of supplies and powder when the siege-minded get determined. You can only put out so many fires alone. The haves vs. the have nots or as you say, could haves... Absolutely is where I see the line being drawn. Especially the haves castigating the could haves. No one wants to be told that they messed up, especially by someone that didn't mess up. That makes you a target. But some people will do it because their ego demands it. I suspect that those types will whittle each other down pretty quickly. Hopefully anyway, so the rest of us can just get on with things! Lol. Very well put. You see it all the time too. "I'm fine because I've got X and Y and will do Z when the time comes." That's a great way to put a target on your back. Far better to tell nobody, be a part of your community and complain about all the same things they do when the time comes. Never point a finger at someone who might point their fist (or worse) back at you when the going gets rough.
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tomatoes
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Post by tomatoes on Feb 13, 2022 13:00:36 GMT 10
As for what are our tribal groups...if a populist movement comes into power it's the intellectuals against these nutjobs. That's how it seems to end up over history. Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Mihn...they all did it - went after the people who could successfully argue against their moronic ideas. If you have a university degree your preps wont save you...a boat or plane is your only hope! And it needs to be early! Even now...look at the people who are pouring out of Afghanistan and the ones who are being targeted...the country is being gutted for any potential of having a future. Another thought experiment - If Pauline Hanson had got power in her early, nutbag fish & chip days, who would she of gone after? Asians? Muslims? First Nations? There may of been a crack down on them initially but I reckon she would of gone after her political opponents a lot harder. Are you saying that having higher degrees would make you a target?
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 13, 2022 13:56:36 GMT 10
As for what are our tribal groups...if a populist movement comes into power it's the intellectuals against these nutjobs. That's how it seems to end up over history. Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Mihn...they all did it - went after the people who could successfully argue against their moronic ideas. If you have a university degree your preps wont save you...a boat or plane is your only hope! And it needs to be early! Even now...look at the people who are pouring out of Afghanistan and the ones who are being targeted...the country is being gutted for any potential of having a future. Another thought experiment - If Pauline Hanson had got power in her early, nutbag fish & chip days, who would she of gone after? Asians? Muslims? First Nations? There may of been a crack down on them initially but I reckon she would of gone after her political opponents a lot harder. Are you saying that having higher degrees would make you a target? History has showed that the tyrants I listed went after their educated elites - doctors, lawyers, teachers, journalists, writers, pretty much anyone who was educated to think not only within their field but outside it as well. They knew that they were not as susceptible to their propaganda, so a lot of them were eliminated or forced into exile if they were lucky.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 13, 2022 14:46:03 GMT 10
Well I'm safe then.
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Feb 13, 2022 15:37:08 GMT 10
Were you lying about your PhD in molecular genetics and vaccine development ?
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Feb 13, 2022 16:21:53 GMT 10
Boooooooooooom!
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Feb 13, 2022 16:35:19 GMT 10
I have a PhD in awesome.
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bushdoc2
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Post by bushdoc2 on Feb 13, 2022 18:55:52 GMT 10
"Piled Head Deep"? Having read that thesis for the PhD about militant survivalists, I doubt I will ever take a Macquarie University qualification seriously ever again.
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