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Post by ausprep130 on Mar 13, 2022 10:22:38 GMT 10
As we've probably all seen in movies, people carting their gear in shopping trolleys along established roads eventually get attacked by raiders at some point along their journey. In order to avoid established roads are we are limited to what we can carry on our person? I hadn't really thought about this in terms of bug out until Frostbite pointed out the pitfalls of using trolleys on established roads. Anyway, I have a beach cart - kind of like a hand truck but with big soft balloon wheels which makes traversing beaches super easy. I use it to cart an esky and plastic crate full of gear when surf fishing. It's rated to 75kg but the most I've carted is around 40kg which I think is probably a more realistic limit. 40kg is fine on the flat but is tough work going up long steep sand dunes. I was sceptical the balloon wheels might puncture easily but they are inflated to 4psi and go over rocky terrain, rough gravel roads and bitumen with ease and I haven't had any punctures yet. I've had mine for around 5yrs now. I've also got a pair of solid wheels for heavier loads on solid and rougher terrain. I've used them when carting gear and firewood up/down slopes when camping a fair distance from my vehicle. The wheels are detachable and the cart folds so it is less bulky for transport in a vehicle. Normally it's only in the car when I go surf fishing or collecting firewood but I will add this to my list of things to put in the car when SHTF. Warning they aren't cheap. beachwheelsaustralia.com/product/beachcart-folding/ |
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bug
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Post by bug on Mar 13, 2022 10:55:56 GMT 10
Bicycle trailers are great. Most are good for 50-100kg. If you have a e-bike, even fully loaded you can outrun people if threatened. No good over sand dunes though. In general, if a mountain bike can get over it, usually the trailer can too (within sensible limits.)
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Mar 13, 2022 11:19:18 GMT 10
Using that beach cart would put a heap of strain on you in a short time, it’s not a natural posture to move heavy stuff over distance. A good harness system would greatly assist but it may be tricky to manoeuvre the cart or disconnect from in an emergency. A cart with 2 handles like the Chinese handcart would be the way to go. Much more ergonomic and you could incorporate brakes to avoid being pushed down hills etc.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Mar 13, 2022 11:42:46 GMT 10
There are plenty of carts made for hunting and taking large game out of the woods. Moving carts through Australian bush is not that bad. Consider using; - a furniture trolley
- Shopping trolley is not ideal but useable but in bug out one has to be ahead of the rest and not wait too late.
- 2 wheel bicycle can be loaded and pushed just about anywhere
- Mono wheel donkeys work very well
- Wheelbarrow is also possible to use. I worked with a German geologist his mother was in Poland during WW2 and escaped with 6 children back to Germany fleeing from advancing Russian troops, used a wheelbarrow as most kids were too young to walk.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Mar 13, 2022 11:46:59 GMT 10
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Mar 13, 2022 11:48:56 GMT 10
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Post by spinifex on Mar 13, 2022 12:18:08 GMT 10
 My cart. Can haul upto 200kg on the flat (thats a 44 gal drum on it in the picture). But 100kg is a sensible load that wont run one over when one must navigate a down slope. Its a Oxy-acetylene welders cart built in the 1960's. (click on it to enlarge the pic) |
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Post by ausprep130 on Mar 13, 2022 13:05:53 GMT 10
There are plenty of carts made for hunting and taking large game out of the woods. Moving carts through Australian bush is not that bad. Consider using; - a furniture trolley
- Shopping trolley is not ideal but useable but in bug out one has to be ahead of the rest and not wait too late.
- 2 wheel bicycle can be loaded and pushed just about anywhere
- Mono wheel donkeys work very well
- Wheelbarrow is also possible to use. I worked with a German geologist his mother was in Poland during WW2 and escaped with 6 children back to Germany fleeing from advancing Russian troops, used a wheelbarrow as most kids were too young to walk.
The second pic is using the larger balloon wheels on what looks like a customised cart. |
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Mar 13, 2022 13:18:07 GMT 10
Whatever the configuration it's got to be counter balanced to reduce the stress and dead load you are dragging / towing!
Spinifex's version is the right idea! How would I know?........Hmmmmm a "friend" told me! Any configuration where you must use muscle or skeletal structure to hold up / lever the load to achieve forward momentum becomes a nightmare very quickly!
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Post by ausprep130 on Mar 13, 2022 13:47:49 GMT 10
Using that beach cart would put a heap of strain on you in a short time, it’s not a natural posture to move heavy stuff over distance. A good harness system would greatly assist but it may be tricky to manoeuvre the cart or disconnect from in an emergency. A cart with 2 handles like the Chinese handcart would be the way to go. Much more ergonomic and you could incorporate brakes to avoid being pushed down hills etc. True, and I do stop to rest every so often when using it along surf beaches. I can't recall how often I stop but rest breaks aren't for too long. Still manage approx. 6km in under 90mins. Mind you, surf beaches are soft and/or corrugated, and walking perpendicular to the slope makes it harder to traverse. Flat terrain is still quite easy even with a 40kg load. That particular trolley can be pushed in front or pulled behind. |
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Post by Stealth on Mar 13, 2022 15:01:58 GMT 10
Oof, that's an expensive hand trolley!
I've just recently bought a trailer for my bike. It's designed for carrying kids but you can absolutely use it for cargo as well. I ended up getting it because the rest of the family have bikes and can travel at a decent clip if required but the smallest gremlin is still too little to travel any kind of distance on a bike under foot-power. For now we're using it for to-and-from school transport but it's also my solution for not being able to use a car, and needing to move as quickly as possible with the whole family in an emergency.
The trailer ensures that everyone can move more quickly if needed. There's even a bit of space behind the seat that we can fit pets in if required. Pretty sure our cat would be exceptionally pissed off about it but if we had to go that'd be a problem she'd have to deal with. (And yeah yeah I can already hear the dog people saying 'just shoot it, better off that way'... Same response but insert 'dog' instead of 'cat'. She's a family member. /enddiscussion).
Smallest person is about 25kg so I can carry a bit of extra weight in the trailer, but when you include panniers and a backpack I could actually carry quite a lot. But the idea for bikes is that everything's gone to hell in a hand basket and we just need to MOVE so we wouldn't be necessarily carrying a huge amount of stuff anyway. We're talking dire emergency here because our plan currently is bugging in. The idea is that once the smallest person is better at biking alone and can ride a larger bike, the trailer will be converted for carrying extra items like BoBs or slightly heavier things like a couple of small tents etc.
Obviously that kind of trailer isn't as heavy duty as some of the stuff the others have posted but it certainly is better than trying to carry everything on your back. If there's only equipment in it rather than a child you can get some pretty decent speed up because you don't have to worry about shaking their teeth out! 🤣 But the trade-off of course is that while you can off-road to a degree you're really limited by terrain. I can probably deal with most relatively flat but occasionally uneven surfaces ok, but the more uneven you get the more you're going to struggle getting it uphill. And no road at all means you're SoL.
But then I'd think you'd have the same situation with most trailers and you absolutely couldn't even consider going on any kind of offroad area at all with a shopping trolley so I reckon it's definitely better than nothing.
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Tim Horton
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Post by Tim Horton on Mar 13, 2022 16:22:42 GMT 10
@@@ @@@ A similar cart with 2 able people is what is used by people in wheel chairs to travel over a lot of ground less wheel chair friendly.. We have seen, used them at a number of times at outdoor accesable events... They work well.. In a group situation... With 2 people on a cart like in the picture, you would be able to move a lot of gear farther, faster and over more rugged surface than you imagine.. My 5 cents of experience.. |
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bug
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Post by bug on Mar 13, 2022 16:26:49 GMT 10
The guys who go off into the outback with those handcarts have a bad habit of never being heard from again.
Much easier to use, but not sure how that would make you any less likely to be robbed than pushing a shopping trolley. At least with a shopping trolley you could pretend to be homeless with nothing of value.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Mar 13, 2022 20:34:17 GMT 10
The guys who go off into the outback with those handcarts have a bad habit of never being heard from again. Much easier to use, but not sure how that would make you any less likely to be robbed than pushing a shopping trolley. At least with a shopping trolley you could pretend to be homeless with nothing of value. One cann travel on through the bush in n remote areas, most criminals pray on the week and vulnerable. You can have a backpack as well ditch the trolley if end up in an aggressive situation. Or hide the goods and come back later. Prob easier to run with trolley than a massive overweight backpack. Just walking around with a backpack makes you vulnerable, Have to leave early and take less travelled routes. |
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bushdoc2
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Post by bushdoc2 on Mar 14, 2022 6:32:49 GMT 10
Using that beach cart would put a heap of strain on you in a short time, it’s not a natural posture to move heavy stuff over distance. A good harness system would greatly assist but it may be tricky to manoeuvre the cart or disconnect from in an emergency. A cart with 2 handles like the Chinese handcart would be the way to go. Much more ergonomic and you could incorporate brakes to avoid being pushed down hills etc. Remember the quick release harness: people have walked in ankle deep water, then fallen into deep holes and drowned when unable to release harness. |
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Post by spinifex on Mar 17, 2022 15:51:11 GMT 10
The guys who go off into the outback with those handcarts have a bad habit of never being heard from again. Much easier to use, but not sure how that would make you any less likely to be robbed than pushing a shopping trolley. At least with a shopping trolley you could pretend to be homeless with nothing of value. Pushing a shopping trolley over anything other than a mirror smooth surface is Very Loud and hard to push. tricky to pull or push through debris on roads too. Cart use is a team sport. Like all prep activity. Id work on the idea that Two take it in turns pulling cart and a couple more observe them and provide 'protection' from a medium distance to the rear. For purposes like collecting water, wood, moving injured people etc. I've been watching footage of what Ukranian civilians are getting upto to meet their daily needs in besieged cities. Its a learning opportunity. |
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bug
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Post by bug on Mar 17, 2022 17:16:26 GMT 10
The guys who go off into the outback with those handcarts have a bad habit of never being heard from again. Much easier to use, but not sure how that would make you any less likely to be robbed than pushing a shopping trolley. At least with a shopping trolley you could pretend to be homeless with nothing of value. Pushing a shopping trolley over anything other than a mirror smooth surface is Very Loud and hard to push. tricky to pull or push through debris on roads too. Cart use is a team sport. Like all prep activity. Id work on the idea that Two take it in turns pulling cart and a couple more observe them and provide 'protection' from a medium distance to the rear. For purposes like collecting water, wood, moving injured people etc. I've been watching footage of what Ukranian civilians are getting upto to meet their daily needs in besieged cities. Its a learning opportunity. Was referring to the getting robbed bit, not mobility. You're still a target slowed down by what you're bringing. Would not want to be pushing a shopping cart any great distance. Especially if it is carrying things i'm dependent on. The slightest angle off to the side of the road/path you are on and things will get very difficult. |
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Post by ausprep130 on Mar 25, 2022 9:08:54 GMT 10
Just saw this one advertised.
Ticks a lot of boxes.
Can be pushed/pulled like a traditional trolley
Can be towed by bike
Can be attached to waist harness (quick release) allowing user to walk or even run
Can be converted to backpack
One model even has brakes.
Limited capacity of maybe 40-45kg but it's still better towing than having it on your back.
And somewhat pricey.
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Post by ausprep130 on Mar 25, 2022 11:07:52 GMT 10
A clip with better detail
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Post by Stealth on Mar 25, 2022 12:19:43 GMT 10
That's pretty cool, my kids bike trailer maxes out at 36kg so pretty hefty difference in weight carriage.
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