spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396 
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Jul 17, 2023 22:32:56 GMT 10
I agree... To a point. Not everyone can live out in the sticks where there's no services or facilities within a few hours drive. Sure some can. More power to 'em! But our bug in plan also includes a bug out plan of stages. If things go so badly that we can no longer bug in we still have a couple of options to leave. At haste, if required. If you live at your bug out location already (ie. your plan is to bug in) and you DON'T have a plan for bugging out further, what happens if you need to? What happens if there's a fire that's going to take out your whole property and despite your best efforts you can't change that fact? You still need a plan of how to get out even if it's only for the short term until direct danger has passed. I'm not saying everyone should have two properties and a functional plan to live full time at either one. Just that sometimes you just need to be out of the area (thinking massive bushfire etc) that requires that you leave the area quickly and with supplies to last for a week or two. Living at your dream location doesn't mean you relax and assume that you're never going to have to bug out. Once we buy our itty bitty homestead we'll still have a plan to bug out if required, and we'll still have a vehicle locked and loaded for that purpose. It can be a clapped out bomb so long as it's reliable and does the job. Larger towns have more resources, better medical, better education, likely more income, more to do for children, better standard of living. It has been proven hence most people live in big cities. Why give all that up I case the world comes to an end. Better accumulate more resources and bug out if things go crazy. Small isolation homesteads have bigger security issues. One does have to be smart and not live in flood zone or bushfire prone area, there will be no assIistance in a collapse scenario. No matter where you stay a get home plan is required... Australia will not collapse overnight it takes 72h for full panic to set in, plenty of time to bugout. If in an apartment in the middle of Sydney it might be problematic. |
|
norseman
VIP Member
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 1,888
|
Post by norseman on Jul 18, 2023 6:46:56 GMT 10
I agree... To a point. Not everyone can live out in the sticks where there's no services or facilities within a few hours drive. Sure some can. More power to 'em! But our bug in plan also includes a bug out plan of stages. If things go so badly that we can no longer bug in we still have a couple of options to leave. At haste, if required. If you live at your bug out location already (ie. your plan is to bug in) and you DON'T have a plan for bugging out further, what happens if you need to? What happens if there's a fire that's going to take out your whole property and despite your best efforts you can't change that fact? You still need a plan of how to get out even if it's only for the short term until direct danger has passed. I'm not saying everyone should have two properties and a functional plan to live full time at either one. Just that sometimes you just need to be out of the area (thinking massive bushfire etc) that requires that you leave the area quickly and with supplies to last for a week or two. Living at your dream location doesn't mean you relax and assume that you're never going to have to bug out. Once we buy our itty bitty homestead we'll still have a plan to bug out if required, and we'll still have a vehicle locked and loaded for that purpose. It can be a clapped out bomb so long as it's reliable and does the job. Larger towns have more resources, better medical, better education, likely more income, more to do for children, better standard of living. It has been proven hence most people live in big cities. Why give all that up I case the world comes to an end. Better accumulate more resources and bug out if things go crazy. Small isolation homesteads have bigger security issues. One does have to be smart and not live in flood zone or bushfire prone area, there will be no assIistance in a collapse scenario. No matter where you stay a get home plan is required... Australia will not collapse overnight it takes 72h for full panic to set in, plenty of time to bugout. If in an apartment in the middle of Sydney it might be problematic. At the height of the serious bushfire emergency in our area in 2019 I sent my wife to my Daughter's house an hour away from us "to be safe" only to have her return the next morning because it was just as dangerous there and they were all evacuating to the In-Laws. A few months ago I was attending a BBQ for all the "old timers" in the valley, some I had not seen since the fires and was amazed to hear that they had all locked up and left also and I was one of the few who stayed (I did have an E&E plan in place)! Always be prepared to leave even your BOL if you must! |
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 7,119
|
Post by frostbite on Jul 18, 2023 8:10:23 GMT 10
Quote: “Small isolation homesteads have bigger security issues.”
I think it’s the reverse. It’s very difficult to defend a suburban home where your neighbour’s boundary is only a metre or less from your house. The bad guys are inside your perimeter before you even know they are there. Whereas a ‘small isolation homestead’ could well have hundreds of metres or more of open ground for the bad guys to cover before they are on you, making them sitting ducks for the well prepared.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jul 18, 2023 9:59:16 GMT 10
Only difference is that if my neighbour heard me squawking at an intruder, he'd fault the fence and help us thump them 🤣. There's SOME benefits to having neighbours close by that you share beers with on the reg. But I'll be honest, I'd still prefer much more distance between me and the next house.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,963
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jul 19, 2023 9:22:44 GMT 10
That's our strategy as well. Get em before they make it to the inner sanctum. I too anticipate a time delay whilst the masses realise it's all gone to hell in a handbasket. Then will come the great exodus from the cities, and that's when the trouble will happen, depending on the nature of the collapse. An emp will mean no vehicles and limits as to how far the hourdes can move, in that case, being 50 km from a town may be all that's needed to survive. An economic collapse will take time to happen and motorvehicles will still function, giving the hungry hourdes more reach to our remote locations.
In that case, Perimeter patrols will need to be organised and all members of the group will need to be armed and have comms at all times. The accepted norms are in groups of 3, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food etc.
The great die off will happen, and after a month or so, the threat will begin to subside, less the further away from a major town U are.
Time of year will also determine how long the threat last for. Sub zero overnite temps will take it's toll on the masses, and mid summer as well. Bad water and drinking from dams etc will also help cull the masses.
And how many overweight, couch potatoes from town could even walk 50 km to your retreat ? Heart attacks will also help reduce the threat.
No doubt there will be many who bug in in their town houses, and wait it out, but these could be classified as survivors and perhaps the sort of persons U do need.
Several months out from the collapse life will slow down, giving time to concentrate on survival, growing food, maintenance etc.
During this time, intel gathering via short wave and ham radio will be vital.
Communications is one of he things that define a modern society and will be vital in rebuilding, setting up farmers markets etc. Even having a UHF handheld and knowing what channel to use will put U ahead of the pack.
And it will all be local, within walking or bycycling distance.
No tagline as I'm 1,000 km south at staying at mums whilst we pack up my sister's 2nd daughters stuff to bring her back to up to the farm, making 10 of us there now.
|
|
frostbite
VIP Member
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 7,119
|
Post by frostbite on Jul 19, 2023 10:29:57 GMT 10
quote: Perimeter patrols will need to be organised and all members of the group will need to be armed and have comms at all times
It’s a tough call sending your children out to do a clearing patrol when they might encounter armed and aggressive trespassers. Much safer to let a drone do the work. A drone can cover more ground and not be ambushed.
|
|
protoss
Full Member
Posts: 68
Likes: 50
|
Post by protoss on Jul 21, 2023 14:25:16 GMT 10
Assuming that there are no EMP type events in store for us. My bug out vehicle of choice would be the new JB74 Jimny. While they are very overpriced due to being a fad. They are extremely capable out of the box and will get places the bigger vehicles won't. Had the pleasure of driving a friends jimny offroad on a rough track and found it to handle very well.
While space is limited, I would say its enough to throw your bug out basics in.
Approximately just under 20,000 of these cars sold brand new in Australia since 2019. So getting your hands on one in a shtf scenario may be a possibility.
Try and avoid the lime green one as that would be seen from over a mile away. The grey ones would be a better option to blend in.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,963
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jul 21, 2023 14:36:23 GMT 10
Our property is observable from easy vantage points, so if there is a threat, the kids get on the squarkbox straight away and within seconds, reinforcements will be there. Besides our kids are all old enough and have been trained to handle firearms from early teens.
Bugging out is not an option for long term, food supply needs to be considered as does water and so on. Even a truck with a shipping cont
ainer full of food will run out eventually.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,963
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jul 21, 2023 14:39:48 GMT 10
And most people don't comprihend how much effort and time it requires to grow something, add winter or adverse weather conditions into the equation and even after bugging out to your retreat, you will starve.
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,963
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jul 21, 2023 14:41:21 GMT 10
Hence the eletes attack on the food supply.
|
|
spatial
Senior Member
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 1,560
|
Post by spatial on Jul 23, 2023 9:16:01 GMT 10
Our property is observable from easy vantage points, so if there is a threat, the kids get on the squarkbox straight away and within seconds, reinforcements will be there. Besides our kids are all old enough and have been trained to handle firearms from early teens. Bugging out is not an option for long term, food supply needs to be considered as does water and so on. Even a truck with a shipping cont ainer full of food will run out eventually. If one has a year supply of food, you will be good. By the time your food runs out, where will be the rest of the population? If as a prepper you go into stress due to lack of resources, by then half the country will be empty. Stored food etc is needed in your supplies it gives you time for the rest of the population to migrate or perish, then it is rebuild. Veg and grain seed is needed for later in a full collapse. Have an established veg garden but will hold back on planting extra till + 6 months. Have a massive supply of rat bait as there is likely a major plague outbreak. No rubbish and human waste collection. Rabbits and pigs will breed up very fast, no road kill and reduced population. Parts of Sydney are experiencing rabbit outbreak and pig numbers are exploding, this is the good times. Hunting and trapping skills will be usefull. |
|
|
|
Post by Stealth on Jul 23, 2023 13:09:08 GMT 10
That's a really good point spatial, might have to do some research on stocking up on rat baits etc. And get good at making mouse buckets again!
|
|
malewithatail
VIP Member
Posts: 3,963
Likes: 1,380
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
|
Post by malewithatail on Jul 23, 2023 17:33:30 GMT 10
As we are responsible for our wastes now, rubbish etc, we don't get a garbage collection, or mail delivery etc, so wont miss it. And we have some fire fighting gear and backup gear as well.
My visit down south brings chills to my spine when I see how many houses are crammed together in the suburbs.
I suppose WTSHTF, most people will get together with their neighbors over a drink or two, and a BBQ, lamenting how stupid the Government, Local or Federal, is that they cant even supply electric power. After a few days, and the water and sewage systems start to fail, I guess it will start to dawn on them that no one is coming to help, and that's when the looting, killings etc will start.
Expect fires to be started by looters, along with no fire brigade to respond, whole streets will burn down. No police either, so no rule of law, back to the law of jungle, and the survival of the fittest/strongest.
Petrol stations will close down, and probably be burnt out, supermarkets will close as the EFTPOS will not work, and hardly anyone carries cash. Even those with backup generators will only last a few days till the juice runs out. And those in town who are operating a generator will find themselves a target for the looters.
Those preppers who are awake will have bugged out by then, but to do that you need to have enough intel to make rational decisions, hence Ham radio. Too early is just as bad as too late.
In the final analysis, knowledge is power.
|
|
