d
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Post by d on May 28, 2022 7:12:27 GMT 10
I’ve been keeping an eye on some properties around the place and For those of you who have actually done it, what was it that made you make that commitment? Do you have building rights? Water frontage or access? What do you use it for? Do you still consider it to have been a good purchase?
Keen to see what actually triggers people to make the change from “wouldn’t it be nice” to actually signing on the dotted line.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on May 28, 2022 8:31:45 GMT 10
All the rural blocks I have bought, ranging in size from 3 acres to 1250 acres, were bought as a safe haven to retreat to if society collapsed. They also served as a great place to spend weekends or holidays, to shoot and hunt on, to provide genuine reason for owning firearms, to serve as a networking tool and meeting place with other preppers, and as a great investment.
Almost all blocks can be built on under exempt development rules. So you can build a shed but not a residence without council approval. Access to water is critical if you intend using the property as a retreat. My primary retreat has over 400m direct river frontage. Permanent river frontage was the main focus when looking for this block.
I don't regret any of my purchases.
What triggered me to buy? I'm a doer, not a gunna type person.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on May 28, 2022 8:58:37 GMT 10
All the rural blocks I have bought, ranging in size from 3 acres to 1250 acres, were bought as a safe haven to retreat to if society collapsed. They also served as a great place to spend weekends or holidays, to shoot and hunt on, to provide genuine reason for owning firearms, to serve as a networking tool and meeting place with other preppers, and as a great investment. Almost all blocks can be built on under exempt development rules. So you can build a shed but not a residence without council approval. Access to water is critical if you intend using the property as a retreat. My primary retreat has over 400m direct river frontage. Permanent river frontage was the main focus when looking for this block. I don't regret any of my purchases. What triggered me to buy? I'm a doer, not a gunna type person. Same here, a bush retreat that can be used as a bug out location. My grandfather advised me when I was looking to purchase some land, not to buy something that I couldn't keep an eye on. I was looking at Tara in Qld, but at over 1,000 km from home, I just couldn't keep it under control. So I bought the first farm a bit closer to home, and eventually moved onto it, first living in a caravan, then building a shed. Ultimately, the Council rezoned it to rural residential and we built a 'proper' home.
Water is the no 1 priority, water is life.
That first farm had a good creek running beside it, that ultimately supplied enough water to operate a 240 volt direct generation induction alternator to supply 24/7 power to me for free. Dams are nearly always an option, depending on the terrain.
Access is next, and can be a two edged sword. Crook access can keep out the nastiness, but also knocks around vehicles. I ended up with a large Honda trail bike for main transport to work, and an old Landrover for shopping trips.
Most councils regard a caravan as temporary accommodation, but the wheels must be left on it to make it legal. A older 33 foot van with an annex makes for comfortable living. Add a shed for storage and to house the battery's, solar panels on the roof and along with a large water tank or two to collect water from the shed roof, you are getting set up.
I suppose I'm saying you have to start somewhere.
Then borrow against the land and buy a house that you rent out. Perhaps that's still OK to do, but with the economic conditions around now, look and think closely at that option.
In our case, we have invested the money from a small inheritance in upgrading infrastructure on the farm, providing separate accommodation for my kids and my sister and her girls, upgrading power systems, fencing etc.
If we did have a substantial investment amount, we would seriously consider an investment property, but only after we were set up properly here. And there is always something more to do !
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d
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Post by d on May 28, 2022 9:30:00 GMT 10
What triggered me to buy? I'm a doer, not a gunna type person. I guess my position is more that say you have 250k burning a hole in your pocket- you can buy the block which will be fun but is it actually needed to own that land personally where there is the additional responsibility of rates clearing deadfall etc ? Keepin in mind that same 250k invested and left alone is over 1.1m in 20 years. I like the idea of a bush block but the question of it being an effective use of the funds is a bit iffy.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on May 28, 2022 10:53:15 GMT 10
When the world goes to hell in a hand basket, you will be glad of a bush block, with some basic accommodation, water and power supply.
Just make sure you can get to it if an EMP takes out your vehicle, or have a EMP proof older ute etc, loaded up and ready to go. I think that registration will be the least of the issues WTSHTF, and a solar panel screwed to the bonnet keeps the battery charged.
There is the issue of security on a property you are not living on, but some trail cameras can take care of that.
I know I am speaking from a different perspective as we are living at our bug out location, having moved nearly 20 years ago, and being semi retired engineer, who has made a farm business of beekeeping, our ways may not be your ideas. But the more options you have, the better position you are in to survive the coming collapse.
By the way, setting up bee hives on your bush block, especially if its near to a state forest, is a good income producing stream and they only need looking at every month or so in winter. You also can get the Primary Producer certification, giving cheap regos, free gun licenses etc.
You know you own an old tractor when.....You have more e-mails about tractors than work.
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Post by Stealth on May 28, 2022 11:05:58 GMT 10
We haven't bought our bush block yet, but it's 100% in our plans for the future. I think in a way I'm a bit like frost in that when I decide I'm going to do something I do it. I don't sit and um and ah about it for an eternity. I might take a while to MAKE that decision, but once it's made it's made. I also like having plans. A year plan, five year plan, and ten year plan are always on the roll. I adjust them as things change, but I always have an end-state in mind for certain timeframes. So if I make the decision that I'm going to do something within xyz years I get it done because I have a game plan.
The effective use of funds is important, but it also depends on what your goals are. For example we want a bush block not only as a bug out location that we can gradually do up over time (and use for camping etc. in the interim) but also to have land that, when the economy spuds in, we'll be able to have our kids build on if prices are so ridiculous that they can't afford their own land. Ultimately for us it's an insurance policy rather than an investment mechanism. So it really depends on how and why you're buying. What we're planning to buy is unlikely to ever be considered an investment property because there's a relatively small niche group of people who're looking for what we're after. If you're looking for an investment property a bush block isn't necessarily the way to go. I'd be more inclined to look at a four bedroom house on the outskirts of an expanding rural centre if I was looking for a long term investment opportunity that was land-based.
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Post by Stealth on May 28, 2022 11:17:04 GMT 10
By the way, setting up bee hives on your bush block, especially if its near to a state forest, is a good income producing stream and they only need looking at every month or so in winter. You also can get the Primary Producer certification, giving cheap regos, free gun licenses etc. Now THIS is the kind of tips I love to see! We're planning on having bee hives at our bush block when we buy, I make mead and my plan has always been to do small scale honey sales when we have overflow (think farmer's market style sales, not commercial lol) and having the primary producer certification for gun licencing isn't something I'd even considered. Time for some investigation, me thinks.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on May 28, 2022 11:25:52 GMT 10
What triggered me to buy? I'm a doer, not a gunna type person. I guess my position is more that say you have 250k burning a hole in your pocket- you can buy the block which will be fun but is it actually needed to own that land personally where there is the additional responsibility of rates clearing deadfall etc ? Keepin in mind that same 250k invested and left alone is over 1.1m in 20 years. I like the idea of a bush block but the question of it being an effective use of the funds is a bit iffy. This is where we differ. You are looking for an investment that gives the best growth, I was looking for an insurance policy that gave my family the best chance of survival if society collapses. They are totally different beasts. The fact that my rural blocks turned out to have excellent investment potential was just a bonus. The only investment option with a similar or better rate of growth that I'm aware of was bitcoin or some shares. Both of those carry significantly more risk than real estate.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on May 28, 2022 11:33:53 GMT 10
All the rural blocks I have bought, ranging in size from 3 acres to 1250 acres, were bought as a safe haven to retreat to if society collapsed. They also served as a great place to spend weekends or holidays, to shoot and hunt on, to provide genuine reason for owning firearms, to serve as a networking tool and meeting place with other preppers, and as a great investment. Almost all blocks can be built on under exempt development rules. So you can build a shed but not a residence without council approval. Access to water is critical if you intend using the property as a retreat. My primary retreat has over 400m direct river frontage. Permanent river frontage was the main focus when looking for this block. I don't regret any of my purchases. What triggered me to buy? I'm a doer, not a gunna type person. I've owned consecutively 4 rural "junk" blocks ranging from a large house block through to 750 acres and then 3 houses all in rural / regional areas and never in a city and all as survival safe havens. I progressively got rid of all of it to end up where I am today. Yes I lost money on some of it for selling too early but I don't really care, making money was not my motivation. I have been a "prepper" from the age of 16 and always knew my position would be vindicated despite being laughed at and howled down mercilessly for buying "useless" bits of land in even more "useless" locations by family members and some so called "friends". The journey and the learning has been awesome, my professional life from eighteen to now sixty ended up being about survival and related matters it's been great. To everyone who laughed and mocked I now say suffer c***s to those in the last few years who had the guts to come back and say "you were right mate" I again say thanks c***s your grovelling is appreciated but go find your own place! Anyone who knows me, knows my first rule- 1) GET OUT OF THE CITIES (if not immediately then as soon as you can).
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on May 28, 2022 17:28:09 GMT 10
By the way, setting up bee hives on your bush block, especially if its near to a state forest, is a good income producing stream and they only need looking at every month or so in winter. You also can get the Primary Producer certification, giving cheap regos, free gun licenses etc. Now THIS is the kind of tips I love to see! We're planning on having bee hives at our bush block when we buy, I make mead and my plan has always been to do small scale honey sales when we have overflow (think farmer's market style sales, not commercial lol) and having the primary producer certification for gun licensing isn't something I'd even considered. Time for some investigation, me thinks. We can sell as much honey as we can produce commercially. Privately from the farm gate as well. People come from all over to buy pure, untreated, bush honey. The market is almost impossible to satisfy and you can sell it all, for a reasonable price as well. Most people, once tasted pure bush honey,never buy shop honey again, so your customer base grows every year. Some Australian honey is actually only sugar water, forced fed to bees in India, China etc. Then heat treated for diseases, and has no goodness left.
It does cost a bit to set up, but join your local branch of the Beekeeping association. There will never be enough bee keepers, so keep going.
You know you own an old tractor when.....Two tons of old iron doesn't seem that heavy.
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bug
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Post by bug on May 28, 2022 17:29:47 GMT 10
Just owning a bush block is nothing. You have to be set up to live there permanently at the drop of a hat. As we saw recently, it's no good owning land if the local dictator prevents you from travelling to it.
Some here have put in a lot of hard work to get to that stage and well done to them.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on May 28, 2022 18:45:28 GMT 10
By the way, setting up bee hives on your bush block, especially if its near to a state forest, is a good income producing stream and they only need looking at every month or so in winter. You also can get the Primary Producer certification, giving cheap regos, free gun licenses etc. Now THIS is the kind of tips I love to see! We're planning on having bee hives at our bush block when we buy, I make mead and my plan has always been to do small scale honey sales when we have overflow (think farmer's market style sales, not commercial lol) and having the primary producer certification for gun licencing isn't something I'd even considered. Time for some investigation, me thinks. OK, here we go, some facts and figures re keeping bees.
First, make sure you are not allergic to bee stings, 'cause you are going to get stung, even in full gear, you will be stung. The plus side is that it keeps your immune system tuned up, and ready to go. I haven't had a snuffle or sneeze since taking up beekeeping many years ago. Not vaxed, and everyone here got covid, but I had a bit of a doughy head for a day, then woke up the next day bright eyed and busy tailed.
Lets start off with a manageable number of hives, say 60. And assume each hive has 2 supers on it. Assume that at any one time, 80% of those boxes have bees in them and are producing,the other 20 % have been re queened or have been split into more boxes.
So we have 50 hives, with 100 supers, say 8 frame. Each super, in summer, can produce about 15 kg honey, every 4 to 6 weeks, plus another 15 kg at least once during winter, depending on where you are of course, but winter pasture grasses do produce pollen and necture.
Thats 1,500 kg honey every harvest, about 4 times a year, once again, depending on your location. Thats 6,000 kg a year of honey. Farm gate price is around $12/kg, but the costs of tubs/jars, and so on must be removed from that so assume $10/kg. $60 k/year, from a patch of ground no bigger than a large back yard.
You probably wont be able to sell that much locally, so the surplus we sell to a bulk honey buyer for around $6.50/kg, and thats about 1/2 of our production. That knocks the profit down a bit, but we haven't considered the by products yet.
By products are wax, for 60 boxes, about 50 kg plus per year, depending on the season and how much the girls are stashing away. Clean wax gets around $ 8/KG in bulk, giving a useful amount to spend on gear. Dirty wax, from died out hives, can be given to the local Furrier for treating his tools and he in exchange does our pony's feet for free several times a year.
The heated up honey that comes from the wax, is sold to a mead maker for around $ 5/kg, and can amount to a substantial amount. Once again, profit on top for gear, buying preformed wax, replacing broken frames, and they do break, etc.
Setting up costs are expensive, a 8 frame box, as a kit, is around $220, plus paint, frames, foundation wax and so on. A dipped box is a bit more expensive, but well worth it as it wont rot out. (CCA treatment is approved in NSW).
A electric spinner is around $600, and a steam powered uncapping machine is about the same. Miscellaneous tools, smokers, veil, uncapping tools, hive tool etc will set you back another couple of hundred dollars.
A caravan is ideal for making into a honey processing room, and can be located adjacent to your aipiery. Make it bee proof with fly screen mesh on the widows, door etc.
Bee box stands/racks are easily made from timber and star posts.
Once the locals know you have bees, requests will come in asking you for pollination services, and at $3 per day/box,a for 2 or 3 months, can bring in a substantial amount. Note that the honey produced in commercial farm pollination , say raspberry's or blueberry's, usually cant be sold as it is contaminated with all sorts of stuff that they spray with. Its OK to let the bees eat it though. The wax that results from melting the contaminated comb off also shouldn't be sold,but is OK for candles, waxed paper etc. But check what chemical they spray with and its withholding period.
Then there are those beekeepers who chase the flow and move their boxes around every few months to new areas. Thats too much hard work at my age, even with a truck mounted crane.
Join your local bee club, take part in the activities, become a member of the executive team, say the President. I have been the past president for 2 years in a row. Attend and display at your local show. This year, I was the only one with honey in the show, and so won 1st, 2nd and third prizes. Come on, give me a run for my money, competition even ! Join the Australian Beekeeping Association, the National body as well.
I know the honey bee isn't a native, but if they swarm, and you should split the box before that happens, then no environmental damage can happen.
You know you own an old tractor when......With a look, feel, smell and occasional taste, you can tell the difference between petrol, kerosene, diesel fuel, motor oil, hydraulic oil, gear oil and coolant.
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d
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Post by d on May 28, 2022 18:47:08 GMT 10
Not only is it a huge percentage of funds for your preps but likely a large portion of your net worth as well. It seems like an inefficient use of funds
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d
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Post by d on May 28, 2022 18:48:16 GMT 10
Now THIS is the kind of tips I love to see! We're planning on having bee hives at our bush block when we buy, I make mead and my plan has always been to do small scale honey sales when we have overflow (think farmer's market style sales, not commercial lol) and having the primary producer certification for gun licencing isn't something I'd even considered. Time for some investigation, me thinks. OK, here we go, some facts and figures re keeping bees.
First, make sure you are not allergic to bee stings, 'cause you are going to get stung, even in full gear, you will be stung. The plus side is that it keeps your immune system tuned up, and ready to go. I haven't had a snuffle or sneeze since taking up beekeeping many years ago. Not vaxed, and everyone here got covid, but I had a bit of a doughy head for a day, then woke up the next day bright eyed and busy tailed.
Lets start off with a manageable number of hives, say 60. And assume each hive has 2 supers on it. Assume that at any one time, 80% of those boxes have bees in them and are producing,the other 20 % have been re queened or have been split into more boxes.
So we have 50 hives, with 100 supers, say 8 frame. Each super, in summer, can produce about 15 kg honey, every 4 to 6 weeks, plus another 15 kg at least once during winter, depending on where you are of course, but winter pasture grasses do produce pollen and necture.
Thats 1,500 kg honey every harvest, about 4 times a year, once again, depending on your location. Thats 6,000 kg a year of honey. Farm gate price is around $12/kg, but the costs of tubs/jars, and so on must be removed from that so assume $10/kg. $60 k/year, from a patch of ground no bigger than a large back yard.
You probably wont be able to sell that much locally, so the surplus we sell to a bulk honey buyer for around $6.50/kg, and thats about 1/2 of our production. That knocks the profit down a bit, but we haven't considered the by products yet.
By products are wax, for 60 boxes, about 50 kg plus per year, depending on the season and how much the girls are stashing away. Clean wax gets around $ 8/KG in bulk, giving a useful amount to spend on gear. Dirty wax, from died out hives, can be given to the local Furrier for treating his tools and he in exchange does our pony's feet for free several times a year.
The heated up honey that comes from the wax, is sold to a mead maker for around $ 5/kg, and can amount to a substantial amount. Once again, profit on top for gear, buying preformed wax, replacing broken frames, and they do break, etc.
Setting up costs are expensive, a 8 frame box, as a kit, is around $220, plus paint, frames, foundation wax and so on. A dipped box is a bit more expensive, but well worth it as it wont rot out. (CCA treatment is approved in NSW).
A electric spinner is around $600, and a steam powered uncapping machine is about the same. Miscellaneous tools, smokers, veil, uncapping tools, hive tool etc will set you back another couple of hundred dollars.
A caravan is ideal for making into a honey processing room, and can be located adjacent to your aipiery. Make it bee proof with fly screen mesh on the widows, door etc.
Bee box stands/racks are easily made from timber and star posts.
Once the locals know you have bees, requests will come in asking you for pollination services, and at $3 per day/box,a for 2 or 3 months, can bring in a substantial amount. Note that the honey produced in commercial farm pollination , say raspberry's or blueberry's, usually cant be sold as it is contaminated with all sorts of stuff that they spray with. Its OK to let the bees eat it though. The wax that results from melting the contaminated comb off also shouldn't be sold,but is OK for candles, waxed paper etc. But check what chemical they spray with and its withholding period.
Then there are those beekeepers who chase the flow and move their boxes around every few months to new areas. Thats too much hard work at my age, even with a truck mounted crane.
Join your local bee club, take part in the activities, become a member of the executive team, say the President. I have been the past president for 2 years in a row. Attend and display at your local show. This year, I was the only one with honey in the show, and so won 1st, 2nd and third prizes. Come on, give me a run for my money, competition even ! Join the Australian Beekeeping Association, the National body as well.
I know the honey bee isn't a native, but if they swarm, and you should split the box before that happens, then no environmental damage can happen.
You know you own an old tractor when......With a look, feel, smell and occasional taste, you can tell the difference between petrol, kerosene, diesel fuel, motor oil, hydraulic oil, gear oil and coolant.
Do you sell online? I was actually looking for a supplier of honey the other day
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Post by milspec on May 28, 2022 20:29:59 GMT 10
Everyones circumstances are different in terms of time, funds and location. We could afford to do a few hundred acres rural block with off grid power and that was what we considered key to our preparedness plan. We also sought a semi wooded block and reliable water (pottable bore water) and a big dam which still held water through the drought. Im very happy to have the money in land ... cant really bug out to a bank account.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on May 29, 2022 0:18:54 GMT 10
Not only is it a huge percentage of funds for your preps but likely a large portion of your net worth as well. It seems like an inefficient use of funds Being able to live permanently and sustainably on my land for nearly three decades is my net worth! Inefficient use of funds is having lots of money in the bank and being dead post SHTF. I'm not smug either, it can all change in a heartbeat and you've got nothing except the bug out bag on your back, that shit happens in life is a given, how you deal with it is all that matters!
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on May 29, 2022 8:01:05 GMT 10
Further to the honey...
Other value added products can include, honeycomb, sells very well at local markets to kids, but is hard on the resources as you remove the foundation from the frames and need new stuff before you can use the frame in a hive, Ive seen bee sting therapy, where you collect bee venom by using a electric charged grid as a landing board and the resultant venom is dried, scraped off and commands an exorbitant price. Its cruel to the girls, so I wont do it, pollen extraction both for the medical industry and other beekeepers to feed their bees with, selling beekeeping supplies yourself, and specialist honey sales adding things like lemon to the honey as 'medicinal' honey, mead making, etc.
d, we are located in norther NSW, but don't do mail order, just farm gate sales and bulk supply.
Ran out of old tractor taglines, so we do some others.
I hit the control key, how-come I'm still not in control ?
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Post by Stealth on May 29, 2022 10:49:37 GMT 10
OK, here we go, some facts and figures re keeping bees.
You know you own an old tractor when......With a look, feel, smell and occasional taste, you can tell the difference between petrol, kerosene, diesel fuel, motor oil, hydraulic oil, gear oil and coolant.
That's some fantastic gouge, thanks for the info. I'm not allergic to bees, been stung a couple of times over the years so I know I'd be ok there. We're definitely planning to start off small. The last thing I'd want is to make mistakes and accidentally murder a whole bunch of hives rather than one or two. I'm going to assume it'll happen at some point so best I reduce the damage until I know what I'm doing 😂.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on May 29, 2022 11:39:46 GMT 10
Id been helping a commercial beekeeper for some years before hand and knew what I was in for.
I suggest you join your local branch of the ABA, Australian Beekeeping Association, then find out where the local club meets. We always welcome beginning beekeepers and most clubs have lend out gear, spinners etc, for new people to use until they get their own gear together.
Beware, it grows on you and before you know it, summer is here and you are splitting hives, catching swarms and you discover one day you have 20 boxes, instead of the 3 or 4 you started with !
I suggest that you start with at least 2 or 3 boxes, that way you can compare the hives and see if one is a bit weaker than the other. Then go looking for a missing queen, or disease.
Hand spinners are hard work, get an electric one. Ours runs from our solar system with no issues, along with the steam generator for the uncapping machine.
After a while, the bees will get to know that you don't mean them harm, and will quite often vacate the super when you open it. Obviously, after winter, the new bees don't know who you are, so they will be a bit more aggressive for the first few honey takings, but after that, you probably wont see a bee in the top boxes.
Brood box inspections are carried out 3 or 4 times a year, on a hot, still day so the brood doesn't get cold. The first queen you see will be a buzz, pun intended !
Books an only tell you so much, time to get your hand on.
I like my cats round and flat, preferably with the tire marks......Alf
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d
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Post by d on May 30, 2022 6:11:47 GMT 10
It’s true that you can’t bug out to a bank account but to act like there isn’t a lot of opportunity cost associated with buying the block- not to say the block is a bad option just that it’s interesting how willing people are to tie up a large portion of their net worth into what can be a money pit. Unless you have bees apparently… I need bees.
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