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Post by Stealth on Jan 8, 2024 16:01:01 GMT 10
As I mentioned in the diary thread we're now looking at buying a rural block to have as a camping/bug out location. It's absolutely 100% going to be a camping location but we want some space where we can make a semi-permanent campsite that will suit for a few weeks of unplug at a time and be used if the world absolutely falls apart. The problem is that you have one of two options around here. A large house on a decent sized block for an itty bitty homestead (we're talking an acre to a couple of hectares) OR an empty block of 40+ hectares which is already zoned for farming of some sort.
Now a large house on a 'smaller' block is absolutely on the cards and providing that we find something that suits our needs we won't go to buying a camping block unless we stumble across something very cheap. But for those in the know... Where the heck do you look for blocks that are smaller and undeveloped?! It seems no one is selling anything of the say 2-4ha range that we'd want. We don't want to go larger than that because the maintenance costs relating to a scrub block do exist and maintaining anything larger means huge cost for firebreak maintenance etc. I've been using realestate and domain for the house properties and that seems the best bet for a house and land purchase but is there a website that I don't know of where rural, undeveloped blocks are more likely to be listed? I've used Elders to have a look around the area but they're mostly selling massive farming properties and we don't want a working farm by any means.
Any suggestions would be great!
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 8, 2024 16:09:55 GMT 10
My understanding is councils don’t want to permit sub-division into smaller blocks (1 to 3 ha) because it destroys the rural nature of the area. At my mountain retreat you can’t get approval for a residence unless the block is over 100 acres. My coastal retreat was a sub-division that got approved, all 3 to 5 acre lots zoned for a residence.
I got almost all my criterion with my mountain retreat. Sure there are issues sometimes with private road maintenance and weed control, and with cocky’s who expect blockies to shoulder all the work and all the expense, but overall I consider it to be an excellent retreat.
As for your search, contact local real estates. My coastal block wasn’t for sale but the local realtor contacted the owner advising he had a keen buyer.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jan 9, 2024 5:30:32 GMT 10
Thirty years ago my place I was told was the last sub 100 acre block to be permitted in our valley, it was a fluke because the zoning was historically rural / residential due to the fact it was a remote village with timber workers cottages and immediately surrounded by thousands of acres of State Forest. These "weird / off grid" places are what you want to seek out (with due diligence)!
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Jan 9, 2024 6:13:45 GMT 10
My experience is the affordable properties are those without building permits and no services (power or water), often difficult to access. Every bit of real estate in Aus that has building potential is overpriced.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jan 9, 2024 7:16:22 GMT 10
I found my first farm by accident. I knew a Senior foreman at AIS who's Brother in law owned a property at Yellow rock and his Landrover was playing up (wouldn't start). As I was the Landrover guy, I went down one afternoon and found the issue (a shorted condenser), and took it for a test drive up the road. The property above looked very nice, some steep land, but well timbered and with several small building spots. I asked if it was for sale and Roger said it was, but not on the market, just by word of mouth. So I made an offer to the chap concerned, ($55K in 1983 for 40 acres, 16 HA without building permission). I then started to look around for a partner, as I couldn't borrow that much money from the Credit Union. Found a chap, and we bought it together, as tenants in common. The property was quite unique in that there was a municipal boundary between Kiama and Shellharbour dividing it into 2 unequal parts. Fast forward 10 years and Id almost paid my part off, but he was starting to get silly and not wanting to adhere to our agreement as to the parts of the land we would use, saying my 1/2 was worth more than his, and of course it was as I has the water, fencing, etc. Anyway, a idea started to form that just perhaps its was possible to subdivide. The road also had the effect of dividing the property into 2 pieces as well, and by now it had been re-gazetted as a public road. I engaged a very good surveyor/solicitor combination and by submitting a subdivision along the road, ended up with a split, but the municipal boundary still existed, and at one stage the property was in 4 sections. A reconciliation was then done, swapping shares in various portions and I finally had my land, albeit only 17 acres, still with no building permission, along the Municipal boundary. Luckily, boundaries, roads and the like are not set by Councils, so even though I really pissed them off, they were gracious enough to realize that it was going to happen and they could make it difficult but not stop it. Now for round two, building permission.
In rural NSW, there used to be a guideline in relation to subdivisions that if the land was not suitable for large scale farming, it may be subdivided. A good law to stop viable farming land being broken up, but totally inapplicable in my situation as the land really was mostly cliff face apart from a few small openings scattered throughout it. Anyway, a long grind through the Land Titles office, Land and Environment court etc, numerous survey's and lots $ later, I had building permission. It is possible to get it.
There was even enough water from the creek to run a 1 KW induction hydro electric turbine for power.
Worth it ? NO, the stress levels were off the scale some times, but we did sell for a good profit and managed to buy up here without encumbrance.
When we determined that Yellow Rock was not for us any more, we started looking around at various areas to move to. It took several years of holidays, weekends away and so on, but we finally settled here in the Northern Rivers, some 1,000 Km away from where we were.
There really is no other way than looking from ground level. You need to experience the land, people and environment to determine if the area is for you. Once you decided, a note in the local Pub, Rural store, Shop and asking around may reveal a property that wasn't listed but is for sale, like mine was. That place is probably worth multi millions today, but being zapped with the RF from the TV transmitters, phone services etc above you cant be healthy.
Eventually you will look back and wonder how the holes all lined up and you have your property. Keep at it and it will happen.
Success is the sum of small efforts - repeated day in and day out.
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Post by Stealth on Jan 10, 2024 15:56:57 GMT 10
My experience is the affordable properties are those without building permits and no services (power or water), often difficult to access. Every bit of real estate in Aus that has building potential is overpriced. Yeah, we're swiftly noticing this! It's good and bad. Good because if it's not easy for us to access it's not easy for some random to come along and find and destroy any semi-permanent stuff we put in. But I also don't want something that absolutely necessitates a 4wd to get in. We also have to ensure that anything that we do build is considered only-semi permanent. So things like an outdoor kitchen space that's basically a carport style thing that we can justify as temporary. Anything solid will be a step up from our regular camping gear and an additional bonus for when we spend time on the block but we have to be very realistic about what we'll be 'allowed' to do. We're ok with no services provided we can put things in ourselves. So things like a camping toilet/bathroom and supplies to manage it, and water storage will have to be creatively managed. But we're slowly figuring out what things are important and what are not. A water source is a pretty high priority because installing tanks in an area that is difficult to get to and not zoned for permanent structures would be difficult at best.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 10, 2024 16:15:56 GMT 10
Stealth, check out Exempt Development guidelines for your State. In NSW you can put a shed up without development approval so long as it is under the size guidelines for the size block it is on. For example, on my 3 acre coastal block I can (and do) have a shed no larger than 50 square metres. No council approval required.
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Post by Stealth on Jan 10, 2024 18:12:05 GMT 10
Oh, great tip! Thanks
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Post by Meezy on Jan 10, 2024 19:21:49 GMT 10
Have you thought of buying a bigger block(20Hec) with a few (2-3) like minded people, of course it would need to have building zoning, but that's a way to get round finances, if you all put in, you could get something bigger,have extra hands around for building. You could even interview people for certain skills you might need. Someone with engineering qual's,someone with medical/science background etc... you get the idea.
I'm sure there's plenty of people (who have $$ to put in) wanting to live in a community of like minded & prepared individuals.
I'd look in victoria, far enough inland that rising seas won't reach, where climate will be cooler, compared to Northern areas. With a creek for water, up high as long as its not a future active mountain.
So much to consider, but make sure you have an odd number of people/families for decision making.
Just an idea.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Jan 10, 2024 19:36:03 GMT 10
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 10, 2024 19:55:04 GMT 10
I don’t think Stealth is in NSW. I think she’s in the communist dictatorship of WA where you need to pay a First Nations consultant half your annual salary to get approval to dig a hole for a fence post. Butt there might still be exempt development provisions in her LGA.
And buying land with people rarely works out well.
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