wolfstar
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Post by wolfstar on May 25, 2014 9:00:17 GMT 10
ok, i know we have often talked about clothing here, and the common route is "i'll stockpile clothes, that will do" well, i beg to differ, consider how you wear through clothes now. now imagine that under heavy wear with only limited resources. wouldnt we be better off knowing how to make our own? i hear you say "sure but then youre in the same situation of hoarding loads of cloth and thread". well, i propose to you this, yes, while things are unstable, a quick solution like stored clothes are ideal. BUT. when things calm down again there is an opportunity for even the children in your family to be useful. when most people thing of a spindle, they think of the kind with a treadle etc. nope, with a drop spindle, almost anyone can make yarn. the lighter the spindle, the finer the wool. so, from there, you can make several kinds of yarn from cotton, or wool (other fibres take too much processing to make them wearable and not something you would consider a torture from itching, lmao). from there its not so hard to make a loom. or have knitting needles/crochet hooks (also very easy to make yourself from wood ) so suddenly not only could you have perfectly servicable cloth to make clothes from for the rest of your, and your families lives, also making them valuable to the community on the whole patterns and diy's are easily found online for all things ive mentioned (which is why i brought them up lol, ive already saved them myself to print) even just the yarn itself is a great trade item, and if you know how to dye it with things you find, all the better so even just the drop spindles are worth having stashed away i hope this has given you all some fresh ideas! what do you all think on the topic?
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shinester
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Post by shinester on May 25, 2014 11:56:15 GMT 10
Cool and I agree, at the very least you'll want needle and thread.
I'm in the fortunate position of having this one sewn up. My wife's hobby is she is incredible with a sewing machine, has vast quantity of fabric, more than enough for a decade worth of clothes. Oh and a working foot powered sewing machine!
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Post by You Must Enter A Name on May 25, 2014 16:43:38 GMT 10
Ever seen the sound of music? salvage heavy drapes and re purpose, I agree it's not ideal but if in a pinch i'd do it. I really need to think further ahead in this area though, all we have are a few el cheapo sewing kits.
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on May 25, 2014 19:11:29 GMT 10
During ww2 in UK, because of clothing rationing, women would make dresses from parachute silk that had come down! They also made coats from old army blankets! I guess there are a lot of variables that you would need to take into account, such as owning sheep or being near someone who does! Also are you near a supply of cotton or would you grow it yourself. The area I am in is a cotton growing area so maybe I would be able to get cotton easily. If you don't have your own supply would it cost a lot in trade or monetary value to purchase it from someone else. Being able to produce the yarn would, as you say, be a good trade to have. Have you looked into ways you can dye it? I would be interested to know.
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Post by You Must Enter A Name on May 25, 2014 20:41:17 GMT 10
During ww2 in UK, because of clothing rationing, women would make dresses from parachute silk that had come down! They also made coats from old army blankets! I guess there are a lot of variables that you would need to take into account, such as owning sheep or being near someone who does! Also are you near a supply of cotton or would you grow it yourself. The area I am in is a cotton growing area so maybe I would be able to get cotton easily. If you don't have your own supply would it cost a lot in trade or monetary value to purchase it from someone else. Being able to produce the yarn would, as you say, be a good trade to have. Have you looked into ways you can dye it? I would be interested to know. How much manual labor is required to grow and harvest the cotton? could also be a viable employment opportunity if the world got knocked back a thousand years. provided anyone survived and didn't go feral.
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on May 25, 2014 20:47:30 GMT 10
Cotton picking was hard work until the machinery came in! You would have to find the means to pay your workers unless you want slave labor!
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Post by You Must Enter A Name on May 25, 2014 21:00:35 GMT 10
I am against all forms of slavery (Even the kind we all exist in today) but more so the classical sense, So no I do not want slave labor, with every fiber of my very being I do not want slave labor. I figured in early days people might be grateful to have food and shelter and a share in the profits depending on how well things went.
Having said that I wouldn't be someone likely to be involved in such a thing, i'll be doing my own thing.
But really Wolfstar has raised an interesting point and it is something people take for granted. Where will clothes come from in a post SHTF world, or even cloth? if cotton is so much hard work who will do it?
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on May 25, 2014 21:16:22 GMT 10
I am against slavery as well and it is a good question! Some clothing may come from animal skins or linen which was made from flax. Not sure how hard flax is to turn into linen.
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Post by You Must Enter A Name on May 25, 2014 21:48:53 GMT 10
how many people can cure animal hides? heck I don't even know what naturally occurring substance can easily be obtained to cure animal hides? or is it called Tanning hides? either way I think that will be on the to learn list.
I would assume linen would be a similar process to cotton.
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Post by graynomad on May 26, 2014 8:02:06 GMT 10
I think you use pee for tanning, so you could get that resource for free I agree that being able to spin/weave/sew/etc would be a very useful skill. Basic sewing is something we should all know, the others are too specialised I think for everyone to learn as there are many other skills that need mastering as well. So Wolfstar you do the spinning, Rem can make the clothes, and I'll barter for a pair of pants with something from my blacksmith shop
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on May 26, 2014 8:20:26 GMT 10
I had better learn to sew properly then!
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wolfstar
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Post by wolfstar on May 26, 2014 9:14:18 GMT 10
old school dying usually used plant material, as it would yield the best colours, like leaves, flowers etc, beetroot peels, blah blah blah... and vinegar or salt water to fix the colour
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Post by You Must Enter A Name on May 26, 2014 17:35:01 GMT 10
asked a mate of mine who is an avid hunter and very oldschool, He said you can use salt to cure allot of hides and mentioned something about Bi Carbonate of Soda and mineral turpentine for tanning.
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on May 26, 2014 18:49:45 GMT 10
So we should all store lots of bicarb and salt! I cant even hunt so I could trade the salt and bicarb! Can you get the instructions on how to do so?
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Post by graynomad on May 27, 2014 15:36:14 GMT 10
I wondered where I got the idea that pee was used so let my fingers do the walking to Wiki
But I think it refers to ancient methods.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 18:22:56 GMT 10
Tanning a Hide Salt and Dry the Pelt Lay the hide on a flat surface, fur-side down. Rub rock salt into the fleshy side of the pelt, using approximately 1 pound of salt for every pound of hide. Rub the salt thoroughly into every fold of the pelt. Any spot left unsalted is a place left unprotected, and these areas are subject to decay or insect problems. Tilt the work surface so that the liquids can drain from the hide. After 24 hours, lightly scrape the hide with a dull knife to remove as much of the liquid on the hide as possible. Rub more salt into the hide and allow it to dry thoroughly over the next 10 to 14 days. Soak the Pelt in Water Fill a barrel with water and place the dried hide inside, stirring it occasionally. The idea is to hydrate the hide and make it as soft and pliable as possible. Dump the water at least a couple of times and replace it with clean water. Only soak the hide until the skin has re-hydrated and is soft and pliable. For some skins this may take only a couple of hours; for others it can take considerably longer. Check the hide often. Scrape the Hide Clean and Soak it in Borax Stretch the hide, fur-side down, over a large, flat table that is waist high. Use a bone scraper or an old, dull hacksaw blade to carefully scrape all of the flesh and fat off of the inside of the hide. Also carefully scrape the thin, shiny membrane from the inside of the hide. Use caution to avoid puncturing the hide or scraping it so hard that holes or tears appear. Place the scraped hide in a plastic trash can filled with water and Borax, about 1 ounce of Borax per gallon of water. This will clean the hide and begin the softening process. Stir the hide with a wooden paddle to make sure it is thoroughly clean. Scud the Pelt Lay your pelt on a flat table, flesh-side up, and use the dull side of a large knife to scrape -- or scud -- any remaining flesh, fat or other debris off the skin, then rinse it in a barrel of clean water. Squeeze most of the water out of the hide and lay it flat on a table, flesh-side up. Tanning Pelts With Brains The brains of the animal may be used in the tanning process, or a cow, pig or horse's brain may be purchased at your local butcher shop. Soak the hide in water then blot it almost dry with towels, leaving it damp. Bring 1 pound of brain matter to a boil in 2 gallons of distilled water. Allow it to cool slightly. Paint the brain liquid onto the skin side of the pelt while it is still warm and allow it to soak the pelt for 24 hours. Do not get any of the brain matter on the fur side of the pelt. Stretching the Hide Stretch the hide tight and nail it to a board or stretch the hide over a frame. Use a canoe paddle, ax handle or similar piece of smooth wood to work the hide, rubbing it over and over to break any fibers in the skin of the hide, leaving the hide smooth and soft. Tanning with Bark Buy shredded tree bark (mulch) from your local nursery. You will need 2 pounds of shredded bark. Grind the shredded bark up any way you can. Chop it up with an ax or use a grain mill on a coarse setting if you have one. The finer the bark is ground, the more tannin you will get from it, and tannin is the main ingredient for bark tanning. Place the ground bark in a stainless steel pot, cover it with distilled water and boil for one hour. Mix half of the boiled tannin with an equal amount of distilled water and paint a light coating of the bark tannin onto the flesh side of the pelt. Leave it overnight. The following day, paint a more generous, full-strength coating of tannin onto the pelt and leave it for 24 hours. Stretch and lightly pound the pelt with a wooden canoe paddle to soften the pelt. Smoke the Hide Position the hide over a smoky fire so the hide is in the shape of a tee-pee. Allow the smoke to permeate the hide until the hide is a rich brown color through and through. The smoke will keep the hide from hardening again if it should become wet. Do this step, regardless of whether the pelt was tanned with brains or tree bark. Read more: www.ehow.com/info_8719624_traditional-ways-tanning-pelts.html#ixzz32ttSoynU Tannin and Tannin Sources "Tannins, generally yellow-white to brown, deepen in color when exposed to light....Because they transform proteins into insoluble products that are resistant to decomposition, tannins are used as tanning agents for leather."
Encarta Encyclopedia
Contents Intro & History Tannins & Tannin Sources Hide Preparation Making the Bark Solution Soaking Currying Softening & Finishing
Tannin is a large, astringent (meaning it tightens pores and draws liquids out), molecule found in plants that bonds readily with proteins. When you apply tannins to your skin you can instantly see the skin contract. Put them in your mouth and your cheeks pucker. Medicinally, tannins are used to draw irritants out of your skin such as the venom from bee stings or poison oak. Next time you get stung, pull some fresh bark off the twig of a nearby tree, chew it up and apply it to the sting. The irritation will go away within seconds. Tannins are also applied to burns to help the healing and to cuts to reduce bleeding.
Another every day interaction with tannin is in tea (from the tea plant....not herb teas). The tradition of adding milk to tea has the added benefit of causing the tannins to bind to the proteins in the milk rather than to the proteins in your liver and kidneys. When you drink tea without milk, you are literally tanning your insides.
Tannins occur in nearly every plant from all over the world, in all climates. It is found in almost any part of the plant, from root to leaves, bark to unripe fruit (ever bitten into an unripe persimmon?). Algae, fungi and mosses do not contain much tannin. Many plants don't contain a useful amount of tannin. Most trees contain plenty of tannin. It is concentrated in the bark layer where it forms a barrier against microorganisms such as fungi and bacteria (when hides are stuck into tannin baths the bacteria are also killed). The Two Types
There are two types of tannin: Catechol and Pyrogallol.. By understanding when to blend these together, the expert tanner could reputedly create the appropriate leather for any need: hard and firm, mellow and soft, light or heavy. Until you are an expert and can even notice the differences, I wouldn't worry about it, but it is interesting to pay attention to as you tan.
Catechols (aka condensed) are more astringent and tan more quickly than the pyrogallols. They deposit a reddish sediment known as 'reds' or phlobaphenes. They make leathers of pink, red or dark brown hues, that are more 'solid'. They also create greenish-black spots on contact with iron. Mimosa, birch, hemlock, quebracho, alder and fir bark contain catechols. Oak bark contains both types.
Pyrogallols (aka hydrolysable) deposit a pale-colored sediment called 'bloom' (elegiac acid} which, if deposited in the leather, improves its solidarity, wearing properties and resistance to water. Hence they are favored for sole leather. They are also preferable for leathers intended for bookbinding, upholstery and other purposes where longevity is essential. The resultant leather is of pale color varying from creamy or yellowish to light brown. Pyrogallols make bluish-black spots on contact with iron and resist changes in pH value. Sumac, chestnut, oak galls and oak-wood contain pyrogallols.
Stats on various tannin sources Oak bark averages 10% tannin. Oak wood = 6%. Oak leather is considered mellow and tight, with a yellow-brown color. There are so many varieties that this surely varies.
Fir bark has as much as 11% tannin and yields a yellow/brown leather.
Certain willows are considered excellent, yielding a soft and supple leather. It can have 10% tannin.
Lotta Rahme says that "birch bark yields a somewhat fragile leather, probably because it dissolves out the hide's natural greases." Average tannin equals 12%. It is usually used in combo with other materials and is sought for its high sugar content. Gives a light red-brown color.
Alder makes a hard and fragile leather and is often used just to color finished leather. It gives a rust orange to red/brown. The brightest color comes from the bark collected just after the first hard freeze.
Hemlock bark contains about 10% tannin. The liquors are bright red and full of acid-forming sugars. Good for both heavy sole as well as lighter fancy leather.
Chestnut oak also called rock oak is classified as a white oak and is high in tannin (10%), as well as acid-forming sugars. It is among the most desirable of barks for tanning.
Common Sources:
Typical materials used for bark tanning include any of the oaks, fir, certain willows, chestnut, sumac leaves, oak galls, canaigre root, birch, alder, hemlock. Bearberry (leaves), heather, bloodroot, alfalfa, tea, sweet gale, pomegranate rinds, certain fern's rhizomes and wood-hops have also been used. In fact, when you peruse the literature, you realize that an enormous amount of plants were at one time or another, in one country or another, important sources of tannin.
In modern times 80% of all commercial bark tanning is done with highly concentrated extracts of Quebracho, Chestnut or Mimosa. These extracts are typically 30% tannin or more, whereas naturally occurring tannin is closer to 10% to 12% of the material. Using these concentrated extracts speeds up the tanning times considerably, although many sources say the resultant leather is of a lower quality.
Collecting: All barks are best collected in the spring when the sap starts to rise in the trees, the leaves are just coming out and the bark will peel easily (a fortunate coincidence). This is when they are most concentrated and the easiest to peel, but you can use bark from any time of year. Tannin is usually concentrated in the inner bark (cambium layer). Supposedly, an older tree has more tannin than a younger one, and the lower parts of the tree contain a higher concentration than the top parts. One source says that fir trees should reach 30 years old before debarking and the best oak trees are between 15 and 30 years. Another source said oaks are best between 30 and 35 years...so I wouldn't get to caught up in it.
Shredded bark from sawmills sold as garden mulch is excellent for bark tanning (assuming it hasn't been left out in the rain a bunch).
How Much: It really depends on the quality of your source. Mark Odle suggests that in general it takes about twice the weight of the hide in bark to effect a good tan.
Storing: Bark should be dried out and stored dry. Tannin is water soluble and will be leached out of wood or bark that has been left out in the rain. If kept dry, it can be stored indefinitely without losing its effectiveness. Bark is easier to grind if its dry too.
The story of cotton: www.cottonsjourney.com/Storyofcotton/print.aspHow to Make Cloth From Raw CottonInstructions 1 Begin by separating the seeds from the fiber. Industrial cotton producers use gins for this job, but you can pick out the seeds by hand. 2 Card the picked cotton. Load a hand carder with cotton and grip it with your left hand. Brush the right carder over its teeth. Repeat until the fiber is evenly distributed between the two cards. 3 Transfer all the fiber to one carder. Position the bottom edge of one carder against the handle edge of the other and lay the ends of the fiber onto the teeth of one carder. Lift them up to transfer them to one carder. 4 Repeat the first step of the carding process and follow with the second step until your fiber is light and airy. 5 Roll the fiber toward the handle of the carder to create your rolag. 6 Spin your rolags, using a drop spindle, spinning wheel or charkha. Because cotton fibers are extremely short, they require a lot of twist. Make sure your yarn is almost kinking as it winds onto your spinning wheel bobbin or drop spindle shaft. 7 Knit or weave your cotton yarn into cloth. Industrial cotton producers use massive looms to weave cotton fabric and circular machines to knit tubes of cotton cloth. At home all you need are knitting needles or a small weaving loom. Read more: www.ehow.com/how_5685074_make-cloth-raw-cotton.html#ixzz32twodufMBy Heidi A. Reeves, eHow Contributor Read more: www.ehow.com/how_5685074_make-cloth-raw-cotton.html#ixzz32twTMHFBHow to Make Felt
Instructions The Setup 1 Purchase carded wool from an arts and crafts shop, fabric and sewing store, or a sheep farm. 2 Find a flat work area that's ok to get wet and a tub to roll and soak the felt. 3 Take a beach type bamboo or rattan mat and lay flat. 4 Place a piece of plastic wrap onto of the matt. Figure the size of the felt piece and cut the plastic several inches larger. 5 Pull the wool into 4 to 6 inch strands and separate into four piles. Use 6 oz. to make a 20-inch piece of felt. The Process 6 Place the first layer of wool on the plastic slightly overlapping the previous strand. Run the strands the same direction until you have a square. 7 Sprinkle laundry detergent over the layer. Use liquid or dry soap. 8 Take each of the remaining sections of wool to layer perpendicular to the previous row adding a little soap each time. 9 Roll up the mat and plastic then take it to a bathtub or other suitable water container. 10 Add hot water, then place the matt in the water; use pressure to open and close the mat in a rolling fashion 3 to 4 minutes. 11 Remove the mat from the tub, lay across a dry towel then turn the fabric 90 degrees (quarter turn). Repeat Step 5 each time you turn the mat until you've turned it all the way around. 12 Rinse the felt in cold water then place it over a towel on the floor and step on it to remove excess water. Dry the felt on any flat surface. Read more: www.ehow.com/how_2073375_make-felt.html#ixzz32tz7aOl6You can make felt from most animal fur as well!
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