Morgo
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Post by Morgo on Dec 27, 2014 21:15:23 GMT 10
Nice for sure, but yeah not cheap considering other setups. Think I'd rather go roof top, even if I picked up a 110 landy for more room instead of the Jeep. I drove one of these around Africa for nearly a month earlier in the year, the beds were easier to deploy and pack up than expected.  |
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Post by Joey on Dec 27, 2014 21:18:03 GMT 10
Yes Rob, I've got family baggage, only 1 kid now (and hopefully it stays that way)
At least even with a dual cab, I can still utilize it for my prospecting and hunting hobbies, as well as easily adapt it for touring/camping and load a quad in the back.
Unfortunately the missus is swaying towards a MK triton, which is mostly styleside tray (tube tray) compared to drop side.
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Post by sammo909 on Dec 28, 2014 9:19:30 GMT 10
 This was a birthday present to myself two years ago, 2010 Colorado 4x4, the dual cab is for my brothers who are both not car owners. Saved for years and paid for it on the day. Not kitted out in the least but it's got potential to and it fits in without drawing attention. But I do have to admit the furthest I've taken it is to the Barrington Tops. |
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Dec 28, 2014 11:13:48 GMT 10
I am still not convinced that many of you understand what a practical vehicle is if you were relying on it to get you about with all of your belongings on a regular basis.
As someone who has lived and worked for nearly 60 years in rural areas covering four stated, 12 of those in a caravan moving, on a regular basis for the type of work I was involved in, I still cannot see the practicality of many of the vehicles so called preppers have that they call their bugout transport.
We had several vehicles in our time on the road, all of them tray tops and I have been amazed on several occasions when I have watched other caravaners arrive at their allocated campsite and how difficult it was for them to access gear from well side utes and troop carrier type vehicles. With the tray you are able to source any item from the three sides and for security all you need is a cage with a waterproof cover which also enables it to be used as a stand alone suitable for camping.
We have had our present property for over 15 years, it has areas suitable for large vegetable gardens, orchard, poultry runs, sheep and goat grazing areas as well as more firewood production than we will ever use.
Our ute, fitted with a tray, is a fairly basic one that when towing a trailer is eminently suitable for firewood collection, hay cartage, stock transport and all of the other task we have for it in the situation that we live.
I would not call us preppers but rather refer to us as people that live a fairly normal life where we grow a good percentage of what we eat, preserve the excess when it is available and are self sustainable in firewood production which when used in the wood burning stove supplies us with heat, hot water and great cooking in the colder months. In the summer the solar hot water heater means we never worry about the amount of hot water there is available and for cooking we revert to the gas stove of which we usually have on hand enough bottled gas for at least five years of normal usage. Our water tanks hold over 100,000 litres of water when full and although garden water can get low in times of severe drought house water has never been a problem.
I would like some of you preppers to tell me what you intend to pack in your vehicle if ever a SHTF situation arises whereby you have to leave where you are now residing, where would you go, what you would expect to find when you get there and how long would you be able to last.
I have spoken to a number of so called preppers over the years and it is my belief that if you are not already living in a situation where you believe that you have the capability to survive the so called SHTF situation then you are going to end up being one of the Zombies that are being talked about.
In the best of years we would at the most produce about 70 percent of our total nutritional needs. We buy in grains, nuts, cooking oil, dairy products to name a few items we do not presently produce but if times got really bad we could survive for some time living off what we do produce.
I would say that there are some people that in normal times produce more than 70 percent of their nutritional needs but there would also be many that do not produce any at all.
This brings me back to the suitability of a vehicle. What is the vehicle worth if you do not have the capability of producing at least 40 percent of your nutritional needs in times that most of us would call normal let alone in times of a crisis?
I believe too many so called preppers have the idea that if they have a vehicle suitable to impress others with loads of unnecessary add ons, the fancy knives and an excessive arsenal that they are going to survive. I believe that is far from the truth because most of the preppers I have read about on a number of sites such as this in Australia and overseas do not mention food production as their major goal.
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Post by Peter on Dec 28, 2014 11:46:00 GMT 10
Peter, I fully understand what you’re saying. And believe me, I think that most of us here would love to have the opportunity to own large properties, remote from metropolitan areas, where we can live in a self-sufficient way.
But the simple fact is that such a lifestyle is not an option for many of us.
Apart from the fact that not everyone can live outside suburbia, some of us have only been preppers for a year or two. This has not given us sufficient time to turn our lives upside down and relocate, find rural employment, exchange motor vehicles, etc. We are simply working with what we have in the here-and-now, and are actively working towards the goal of minimising the negative effects of potential changes to our lives – including trivial matters such as minor scrapes and bruises, through to the complete collapse of the world as we currently know it.
While many of us are working to growing as much food as possible, the size of the properties in Australian population centres limits this. This is why many of us realise that we cannot currently produce enough food, and base our preps on food storage accordingly. The number of unprepared people living around our homes mean that protecting ourselves is another priority.
Believe me – I’d love to do the whole homestead thing. And I appreciate the severity of situations we will face if we find ourselves required to bug out. My wife and I – and I believe we speak for most of the “so called preppers” here – ask that you appreciate that we are often limited by our situations. I trust your experience in rural Australia gives you familiarity with this predicament.
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Post by Fractus on Dec 28, 2014 12:28:53 GMT 10
To me both of you Petes are correct. My bov is a 96 Vitara 4 door with a tow bar. It is only thing I can afford as all I have is invested in my land. If I have to leave it will be to go parents farm. I grow my own meat and poultry. I am a amateur vegetable grower and I know clearly I cannot support myself with whT I grow now. But I try and I learn. Last night we had loin chops with spuds, zucchini, sweet bite tomatoes and peas. We grew it all bar the peas. The peas are on the garden but not ready. Probably won't survive a genuine teotwawki but it the is a sustained grid down or interruption to essentialls we will be ok and so will most of my family.
There is a very limited wild life, fuel water, etc to make bugging out anything other than a temporary measure.
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Res-Q
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Post by Res-Q on Dec 29, 2014 7:50:31 GMT 10
I would like some of you preppers to tell me what you intend to pack in your vehicle if ever a SHTF situation arises whereby you have to leave where you are now residing, where would you go, what you would expect to find when you get there and how long would you be able to last.
Great post Peter, To answer your questions heres what I've done to prepare. I wont be packing anything in the car except for some basics and the family. Cant forget them  As I've mentioned before on this forum i dont have a property and I'm not a gardener. I do have a bug out location which has a endless supply of water and wildlife including deer. We all hunt in a variety of disciplines and will use these to supplement our food stocks. Its secluded and Isolated from the public and has been set up over the years to provide respite from a SHTF for three families (2 x adults and 2 children ) for a minimum of 3 months. Fruit trees have been planted, dams are to be stocked with fingerlings this year. Food stocks are rotated every six months or yearly. Medical, Clothing, tents, tools, utensils etc to make camp life comfortable is onsite and is used regularly. Ive shown photos in the past of how my personal cache is set up onsite with 200 LT plastic drums and 20 LT pails in earlier posts. (taken down for OPSEC, Sorry) We dont expect to last forever up there but we discussed the need to have somewhere to go to escape the initial clusterf**k before we return to our homes. Three months seemed to be adequate time we reckon for the Govt to get its shit together and start the rebuilding process. Any longer than this and we have contigency plans in place which i wont discuss here I see your point about peoples unrealistic expectations about SHTF and bugging out. But I'm proof it can be done if only for a short while. Cheers ResQ
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Dec 30, 2014 13:47:03 GMT 10
My last post was designed to get some sensible comments and I am pleased to see that the three of you have some realistic expectations of what you would be capable of achieving if the proverbial hit the fan.
As I said in an earlier post I do not consider us to be preppers rather than normal people going about our lives in a sustainable manner.
It would probably surprise a number of people just how well people in general would be prepared to pull together in times of hardship. There will of course be those who will want to rip off others but these would by far be in the minority.
In good years we are able to produce much more food than we can consume and in those years we are able to share it with family and friends. In bad years, such as the one we are experiencing at the moment because of no rain, we are still able to purchase what we are unable to produce.
This year Mother Nature has really driven home to us our shortcomings and we are lucky to be in the position whereby we can afford to increase our groundwater runoff storage capacity by increasing the capacity of a dam, by installing another tank for irrigation water and by putting an extra addition onto what we call our hay shed for the collection of extra potable water.
As a retired couple we can afford to live outside a suburban area as we do not have the continued drudgery of having to go to work. I do get a fair bit of work in the local rural area which is great as it still allows us to continue to do improvements that help to enhance our lifestyle.
Over the years we have learnt how to preserve fruit, make jams and cordials, grow legumes suitable for drying as well as a number of other ways to help tide us over for hard times. We believe that if some of these skills were still taught/learnt then when hard times arose a lot more people would be better off.
Food production is one thing that everybody can practice either on a micro scale that may produce a meal a week or by having a garden large enough to feed a family of four on a regular basis. It surprises me just how many people have no idea where their food is produced, how or by what methods, sustainable or otherwise. Wicking beds, hydroponics, aquaculture and traditional gardening methods all have their place and are worth discussing in greater detail at another time by interested parties.
For us bugging out would not be an option as where we live has all the trappings that makes life what it is. Like most people home is where the heart is and by having to leave for any reason and leaving behind all that is needed to survive would be more than most people could bear.
Mr Pete mentioned large properties, rural properties do not need to be large to survive on. Eight hectares which is a fairly standard size in some areas should be enough to suit the needs of most people/families but this of course would depend on rainfall and suitable area for growing vegetable crops.
fractus, it sounds like you have some of the basic skills and ideas and like us all we have the ability to continue to learn and improve our lives.
Res-Q, your idea of three months would probably not be too far off the mark for peace and stability to return but depending on the scenario it could be some time for basic food supplies, water and energy to be reinstated.
I personally believe that we are heading for tougher times because of the budget blowout that will/may effect many of us and our current standard of living and because of this I have taken a greater interest in the comments made by a cross section of peoples on sites such as this.
I would like to see a forum created whereby people with realistic views can share information about sustainability and self reliance can be aired with the view of setting up a think tank where various ideas could be shared.
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Post by graynomad on Jan 6, 2015 2:37:41 GMT 10
I for one have no intentions of bugging out, I already live in a great spot that, in theory at least, would allow me to live sustainably. That's not to say one shouldn't have a plan B that does require a BOV. As to where you go and for how long that's another story and it depends on the bug out trigger.
For example a bush fire, if we had one come through our land we could bug out in the truck and live quite comfortably (not sustainably though, just as grey nomads) for years, as indeed we have done since 2001. But that of course is a totally different thing to bugging out if we have a real SHTF/WROL situation. In that case I seriously doubt there are more than a handful of people in Oz that could live off the land. I think it would be possible further north with some training. That said, we could easily live below the radar in the bush for say 3 months until things died down, 6 months if we put our mind to it, if indeed that's how it goes. That's 6 months on any patch of dirt in the outback...with one important caveat, there must be water available. If no water is available then we could still live quite happily for 2 months with the water in the truck, 3 months if we're real careful. Heck we do it now for 6+ weeks without even trying.
Personally I prefer to think of myself as a "homesteader", one who is preparing for what I see as the most likely scenario, ie ever decreasing income, initially from inflation eating my savings and then the age pension. I do not really think that Oz will descend into Mad Max, there will probably be a recession or even a depression, even now I would hardly notice but given another year or so to get better squared away I doubt I'll notice at all unless I watch the news.
Truth is, since we dropped out 14 years ago, on paper our "standard of living" is abysmal compared to most people, however in practice we live very well on bugger all. It's all a matter of how you want to conduct your life, I have friends who earn a fortune, and yet they have less spare cash and certainly a lot less freedom than us.
As would I, they must be around although I confess I've not looked. I think the key word is "homesteading", there are certainly a lot of blogs, dunno if I have seen any forums but they must be around.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Jan 6, 2015 6:52:32 GMT 10
A. Welcome to the forums B. Start some posts up, ask for a subsection if it doesn't exist, the people here are pretty good at that and you've got some useful ideas  I'm not planning of going anywhere, it would be crap but I would survive just fine for a good year, possibly two right here. I have some skilled and trusted people potentially headed my way also, it would cut supplies but exponentially increase survivability. If I had to bug out, the preps will fit in two cars and I've got the fuel to at least two BOL, with a 3rd being further away and optional. I also have two bikes and BOB that can be put on our backs if need be for those two locations. If in the incredibly unlikely scenario one of the cars not being functional, we leave it and keep going with at least 6 months of food. The cars both have 2 weeks of food, BOBs and some water right at this minute, so if I have to leave within a minute, it's not ideal but living a little longer gives more options. I don't see a need to have anything special in BOV, or a dedicated vehicle for it. The car is a tent that sleeps two just fine, even if it's out of fuel. Besides I've camped lots of places, slept on rocky mountains and driven up dirt roads plenty of times in normal cars, I live in semi-rural, I know back ways and the locations aren't far. Like I said, there's no reason to leave, I live in a decent spot. Food isn't an issue for a great deal of time, even without rationing and I'm alright with growing veggies, having done so for 2 decades. It would be a pain as there's not enough space where I am to grow enough and without fuel and motorised advantage it would be back breaking but it could be done and if it's as bad as people starving, then there's going to be plenty of land around in a couple of months. The small areas I have would supplement and give me that extra day, week, or month. Of course very quickly trade will begin as it always does. Even in the most desperate situations in the world, trade continues and with demand comes people wishing to profit from the demand, food will be available, I've got items that would be useful. you can eat grass, you can adapt because adaption is the MOST important aspect to survival. If I have to leave because I'm forced out with nothing, so be it, I'll adapt to the situation and do something, anything to change that. If I live one more day, it's one more day. Since you're not a prepper, [though I disagree, it's semantics] you've certainly got a good leg up on most of us, though let me ask you some questions: 1. How do you fuel your ute for moving stuff around? 2. How would you feed yourself if you have a bad year money is no good? 3. Where's the fuel for the chainsaw to cut the wood or for the machines for your farming equipment? 4. What do you do when there's no power? 5. What do you do if you get sick or injured and no one is there to help? 6. Being older [1942 = 62 or so], what medications would you need to keep going? Can you do the work needed to do things manually? [I've met farmers in their late 70's who still do a great deal of manual work, so it's possible] 7. What do you do when you break that tool, or you need a bandage or some disinfectant or something else? 8. What do you do when a group of people, perhaps 10, perhaps 50 come to take your nice self sustaining farm? The experiences of South Africa and Argentina's financial collapse suggest that people targeted isolated farms and much more than they did city dwellings. In medieval times people relied on the city/town/village unity to defend against bandits, numbers prevailed. People sure do pull together, it's one of our innate survival skills, so long as their basic hierarchy of needs are being fulfilled [food/water], so long as we feel like we're in it together, that is in the same boat, take food and water from people with people with food around them and they will absolutely turn into the animals we are.
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Post by Nighthawk on Jan 6, 2015 7:05:21 GMT 10
As would I, they must be around although I confess I've not looked. I think the key word is "homesteading", there are certainly a lot of blogs, dunno if I have seen any forums but they must be around. Well we have a homesteading sub-forum here, although it's lumped in with gardening at the moment. ausprep.com/board/5/gardeningI'll look at splitting it off into its own section. The concept of Homesteading is something we are looking at as a family so I'm certainly keen to be part of discussion around the subject. |
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Jan 6, 2015 7:08:44 GMT 10
The concept of Homesteading is something we are looking at as a family so I'm certainly keen to be part of discussion around the subject. ... and is my longer term goal, both for lifestyle and as a prep |
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Jan 7, 2015 13:56:39 GMT 10
For the time we have spent living here we have always considered bush fires as the greatest threat to our existence. If one was to come through our property we would have to move out of its way for probably several hours at the most but with the way our place is set up the infrastructure would survive.
For the past two years when we have had little to no groundwater runoff we have suffered severely as we have not been able to produce anywhere near the normal amounts of food that we have in the past. We now consider dry spells like the one we are experiencing a bigger threat than bush fires as they are capable of doing more damage for longer to our way of life/existence than a bush fire could.
We are fortunate that we are able to increase our dam and rainwater collection capacities to a point where we hope that dry periods such as the one we are experiencing do not have the same negative impact.
Several years ago I dismantled a fairly large hydroponic system that we had used for several years due to the fact that we had plenty of available water and growing fruits and vegetables using traditional methods was not an issue. I am now planning an updated hydroponic system that should allow us to grow a large percentage of our vegetables and I am also looking at growing fruit trees in drums to help minimise water usage.
Our ute is primarily used for trips to town and the cartage of building materials, manures, mulches and the like and in times of a SHTF situation it would stay in the shed and around the property I would use one of the several wheelbarrows I have to move items around if and when required.
This last season we have not had a harvest that ha allowed us to preserve or save any of our own produce, but fortunately for us we have enough in our store from previous harvests to bide us over until hopefully we have a reasonable to good harvest next season. The main lesson we have learned from this poor year is that in the better years we should preserve and save more.
We have enough firewood in store to last us several years and at the present time it takes about five litres of petrol in the chain saw to cut two years of firewood into lengths and another ten litres to put it through the saw bench. Fire wood collection used to be carried out by hand and no doubt will be again some time in the future.
Petroleum products would be the items we would miss the most if they were unobtainable as for us they are necessary for pumping water although we have a garden set-up whereby some water is collected above the height of the main gardens and it can be gravity fed through the present reticulation system.
I have not used a powered machine in either the orchard or garden areas for several years and this brings me to a comment I have made on more than one occasion, ‘It would be the full time job of one person of a family to supply that family with their nutritional needs’. At certain times of the year that person would have to be assisted and these would include sowing, harvest of some items, preserving and watering in times of extended dry periods.
Over the years we have obtained a good collection of mainly second-hand tools of various vintages and we also more than a lifetimes supply of new handles for the most used of the tools.
Seed collection is something I have practised for a number or years with great success even to the extent where I can share seeds with friends.
Power. Here is the making of the big debate. We live entirely off the grid, have our own solar power system as well as more than adequate diesel generated backup power. We could live without electricity, the same as our grandparents parents did and still have a life rather than an existence. There is nothing we would have to do to survive a true SHTF situation that would require us to have electricity on hand like it is today. Our present solar power system is here because when we installed it we could afford it and we can still afford to maintain it and yes, we do reap the benefits of having it. I mean where would we be without pathetic programs on the television, infernal computers that waste so much productive time, mobile phones [don’t start me on that one], and vacuum cleaners.
Medications will always be an issue but there are many natural remedies that are all around us but very few people take the time out to find out about them because it is so easy to go to the doctor or chemist. There are many books pertaining to herbal remedies but also in times of hardship, or even everyday life we should put into place diets and other practices that help maintain and/or improve our health.
shinester, I understand what you are asking/saying in dot point 8. and unfortunately I cannot answer it other than to say it would depend on the scenario, the time of the year and how long it has taken the scenario to come about.
I have a list of items that are required for living the way we do and it is by far not complete. I keep in touch with the news form both here and abroad by listening to the local ABC at 6:00am every day and if something was amiss in the political field that I believed would affect us or the production/supply of an item we used I would put more of that item into our store. Petroleum products are some of those items that could become in short supply at short notice and in cases like that if it was obtainable I could store enough on site to last for several years.
I like your math. It would be good to be that young again.
I believe that ‘homesteading’ is such an American term and I would prefer to use the term ’sustainable living’ but in the long term any site that allows people to learn would be a good one.
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Post by Fractus on Jan 7, 2015 14:33:50 GMT 10
I have not used a powered machine in either the orchard or garden areas for several years and this brings me to a comment I have made on more than one occasion, ‘It would be the full time job of one person of a family to supply that family with their nutritional needs’. At certain times of the year that person would have to be assisted and these would include sowing, harvest of some items, preserving and watering in times of extended dry periods. This is something that concerns me a bit. To ramp up production to supply sufficient we would have to work quite a bit of new ground and that would be slow and hard without machines. Using tubs and beds is one way to avoid breaking new ground but again needs to be already happening not a start when shtf occurs. |
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Jan 8, 2015 13:18:50 GMT 10
We have over over 1,000 square metres of vegetable garden and orchard areas where we grow most of our vegetables mainly by what could be called traditional methods i.e. in the ground in rows. Because I dig initially to the full depth of the shovel I find that after the soil has been raked and the seed sown there is only a need to use hand tools rather than the rotary hoe. The main side effect of using rotary hoes is that as well as destroying the worms they destroy the structure/tilth of the soil which in turn makes it harder for the rainfall to penetrate. We have found to our detriment that with the one metre evaporation in this area when we used raised beds the evaporation rate went up to about three plus metres so we have come to the conclusion that after this dry season we will retire the raised beds. In an area with a long term average yearly rainfall of just over 500 millimetres it has become even more important to garden in a water sustainable matter. A lot of food can be produced by one person using manual methods. One person with suitable ground and an adequate water supply could probable feed five families. Two people in the same situation could probably feed fifteen families. There have been plenty of articles written on the subject of basic food production and we must remember that in a lot of countries throughout the world manual methods are still used for the production of food. For anyone interested in electricity production after the SHTF have a look at www.allpowerlabs.org/gasification. |
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Jan 8, 2015 13:28:18 GMT 10
Gentlemen, please keep the thread on the topic of vehicles. If you would like to continue a sustainable living or homesteading discussion I encourage you to start a thread in this area: ausprep.com/board/3/food-storageThe above posts are interesting topics and it would be a shame if they were lost among a thread about cars Thanks guys! |
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Post by Nighthawk on Jan 8, 2015 21:52:49 GMT 10
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Post by graynomad on Jan 9, 2015 6:38:36 GMT 10
Good one, thanks.
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Post by agriculturalprep on Feb 4, 2015 17:45:55 GMT 10
Hey all,
I need some advice my next big prep is a new car, not brand new. But i am wanting some advice on what could be my everyday and bug out option, any input would be appreciated,
cheers,
Aggie
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Post by Nighthawk on Feb 4, 2015 18:46:06 GMT 10
My BOV as of last Sunday   |
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As I've mentioned before on this forum i dont have a property and I'm not a gardener. I do have a bug out location which has a endless supply of water and wildlife including deer. We all hunt in a variety of disciplines and will use these to supplement our food stocks. Its secluded and Isolated from the public and has been set up over the years to provide respite from a SHTF for three families (2 x adults and 2 children ) for a minimum of 3 months. Fruit trees have been planted, dams are to be stocked with fingerlings this year. Food stocks are rotated every six months or yearly. Medical, Clothing, tents, tools, utensils etc to make camp life comfortable is onsite and is used regularly. 
