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Post by wellrounded on Feb 11, 2015 13:24:20 GMT 10
Thought we could have a discussion about how much water is needed for a productive homestead.
I'm a heavy user, always have been and I make absolutely no apology for it. Water is my no.1 priority, it needs to be good and I want lots of it. I need to be able to pump it no matter what happens and want to have a decent sized reserve. One of the most common mistakes I see when people think about living a more self reliant lifestyle is that they underestimate the amount of water they will need.
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Post by Peter on Feb 11, 2015 14:05:13 GMT 10
That's my problem - in a suburban block, if the scheme water fails I'll struggle. I've mentioned the river nearby a few times in the past, but it's muddy and salty.
"Water, Water Everywhere, But Nary a Drop to Drink".
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Post by thereth on Feb 11, 2015 14:20:39 GMT 10
Pete, when you say SOR metro, are you fully suburban or one of the more rural suburban? Places like serpentine, even armadale and kelmscott have allowed bores to be drilled in the past. My grandfather lives in Ellenbrook, which for everyone else is a newish estate area, and he got approval for a bore with no issues.
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arkane
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Post by arkane on Feb 11, 2015 14:35:05 GMT 10
Recycle recycle recycle!
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Post by thereth on Feb 11, 2015 14:36:23 GMT 10
a compost toilet is an option as well, they use far less water than a normal one and are not the smelly long drops they used to be
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Post by Peter on Feb 11, 2015 14:56:55 GMT 10
Pete, when you say SOR metro, are you fully suburban or one of the more rural suburban? Places like serpentine, even armadale and kelmscott have allowed bores to be drilled in the past. My grandfather lives in Ellenbrook, which for everyone else is a newish estate area, and he got approval for a bore with no issues. Fully suburban - I can drive to Freo in about 15 minutes. I hope I never have to bug out from here, as the roads will not be friendly. Heck, the Fwy south is crap even with minor roadworks atm. We have a bore, but the water will need extensive filtration & sanitation even if it's only used for washing - that's the main water prep I'm planning atm.
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Post by wellrounded on Feb 11, 2015 18:08:35 GMT 10
I'm talking about a productive homestead. Not sanitation or bugging out etc. Yep we can do with very little water but we should be setting ourselves up so we do not have to. If you're so worried about your water supply that you are worried about flushing toilets or serious recycling then you need to think about having more water. This is my fourth homestead each in very different climates, at each location I've put enough money and effort into water to not worry about it at all. Although where I am now it's a finite resource it's still ample to grow all our food and raise our livestock.
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crrrock
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Post by crrrock on Feb 11, 2015 18:30:30 GMT 10
"Productive Homestead" being the operative words..... yes, we need to recycle, save water when bathing, etc, etc, BUT to be PRODUCTIVE, meaning to produce (food) needs water. We run rotoframe sprinklers that consume 1000 litres per hour [yes 1000] and most times run them for several hours per day in summer. Too little water and you just can NOT produce. In a previous life I used to struggle growing anything because I did not understand the importance of ADEQUATE water, not just a quick hose down in the cool of the afternoon. Do some research on "field capacity" "wilt point" and "permanent wilt point" and such terms. Only then will you understand how much water you need for a productive garden.
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Post by thereth on Feb 11, 2015 19:21:09 GMT 10
agree completely wellrouded, however I think minimising your usage is a part of bein a productive homestead. Each flush, even a half flush is 3L, if a family of 5 uses the toilet once a day its 18L, whereas in a flushable composting toilet they use 500mL so only 2.5L usage a day, that amounts to over 5500L a year. While this is not a huge amount overall, being able to save 5500L of potable water a year is nothing to sneeze at.
In saying that, the area I am in has around 300mm of water a year so it is a very low rainfall, and even though there is an ample underground lake, a lot of it is very salty. This is a big issue for the property I am looking at on the weekend as it has access to a bore that apparently has very clean water.
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Frank
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Post by Frank on Feb 11, 2015 23:24:16 GMT 10
The previous owners of our house were a family of 4 and for 12 years they had a 35,000L tank and a small run-off dam for the garden. Everything in the house ran of the tank and they only bought in water once which was late last year. In saying that, they had little to no productive garden so the dam always had a decent amount in it.
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Post by graynomad on Feb 11, 2015 23:42:52 GMT 10
I can't talk about growing food, but leaving that aside I took records for years while we were on the road, over many years we averaged 10 litres per day, for both of us. That's everything, but with a casette dunny (no flushing) and sparrow washes (no showers). Includes all laundry except large items like bedding that waited until we were camped near a river at which point river water was used for all laundry. So to allow for using river water for laundry when available I would estimate 15 litres per day for two people. Round that up to 20 and you can have water fights as well
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Post by wellrounded on Feb 12, 2015 6:11:07 GMT 10
agree completely wellrouded, however I think minimising your usage is a part of bein a productive homestead. Each flush, even a half flush is 3L, if a family of 5 uses the toilet once a day its 18L, whereas in a flushable composting toilet they use 500mL so only 2.5L usage a day, that amounts to over 5500L a year. While this is not a huge amount overall, being able to save 5500L of potable water a year is nothing to sneeze at. In saying that, the area I am in has around 300mm of water a year so it is a very low rainfall, and even though there is an ample underground lake, a lot of it is very salty. This is a big issue for the property I am looking at on the weekend as it has access to a bore that apparently has very clean water. Nothing wrong with minimising your usage, a lot of us will be on rainwater. We have 20,000 l rainwater storage and at times up to 6 or more adults using it. We have a humanure toilet as well as the flushing one. Water conservation is a part of life. If all the water you have is rainwater then you need to be careful.
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Post by wellrounded on Feb 12, 2015 7:08:18 GMT 10
Some quick figures. To irrigate our vege patch (25m x 35m) we use about 900000 l per summer. This is about equivalent to 1000mm rainfall. Our seven cows drink 350 l per day (130,000 per year). 20 sheep use about 100 l a day (36,500) per year. 2 horses 60 l per day. Pigs 100 l per day drinking and 100 l for wallows. Greenhouse and pot area 3000 l per day, this generates our income. Orchard about 500,000 per year. Plus water for the gardens around the house. We also have a 2000 location (drip irrigation) vineyard/orchard ready to plant out. Long term this will grow fruit to feed livestock (apple fed pigs). It adds up pretty quickly. Because we grow and make everything here we do a lot of dishes. I probably do 4 to 10 loads of dishes a day, three after meals and then the others for preserving/cheese making/baking/milking/butchering/animal feed making equipment. This is all done with rainwater, our roof catchment is 57,000 l with our roof area. We are about to double it and a bit so will be able to catch more summer rain. EDIT: corrected a typo 27,000 should be 57,000 l from our roof area. I work with livestock everyday, including pigs, I want a shower. Even when I've lived rough (which has been often) I still have hot and cold running water. One set up was a 200 l plastic drum filled using an Ideal hand pump from a dam. Then that water filled a header tank sitting on top of a hot water tank, sitting on top of a large stump. Water was heated with an old free standing water jacket type chip heater. Still have the water jacket . Garden hoses then carried hot and cold water down to the shower further down the hill or into the kitchen sink in the tent. I was building a house while living in that tent, everything done with hand tools, no power at all not even a torch. Hot water and a shower at the end of the day was a very welcome luxury.
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crrrock
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Post by crrrock on Feb 12, 2015 8:15:51 GMT 10
Last night we had some rain, probably less than 1mm, but lets assume 1mm. 1mm of rain on a square meter will yeild 1 litre. We live on 68Ha, therefore 68 x 10,000 sq mtrs = 680,000sq mtrs = 680,000 litres. 1000 ltrs weighs 1 ton, so last night we had (assuming 1mm and even rainfall across the property)680 tons of water fall on the place. Adds up, doesn't it :/ But the 1 meg dam still has not filled with our summer rain (which has been pleasntly more than expected)
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Post by graynomad on Feb 12, 2015 9:19:16 GMT 10
Thanks for those figures wellrounded, it's amazing how much you need if in the self-reliant homestead scenario. This is the main reason we will never be able to go to the extent you have, we are in a very dry area. Yes a daily hot shower is something I have missed a lot
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Post by wellrounded on Feb 12, 2015 10:30:09 GMT 10
Thanks for those figures wellrounded, it's amazing how much you need if in the self-reliant homestead scenario. This is the main reason we will never be able to go to the extent you have, we are in a very dry area. Yes a daily hot shower is something I have missed a lot Can I ask your rainfall?
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Post by graynomad on Feb 12, 2015 11:12:14 GMT 10
Historically about 900mm pa, I think I have figures for about 2000-2010.
Essentially no surface water anywhere, certainly not on my land. Bores are pretty common though but we don't have one.
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Post by Fractus on Feb 12, 2015 13:23:50 GMT 10
We have mains and a tank. Plus some smaller 200 ltr drums. The tank looks half buried but recently when I pumped it dry very quickly I found that it is not buried, it is a squat tank and only half capacity I thought. We will put a tank on the shed when some $$ are gathered from our money tree. It is a great tree called a quantitive easing tree, native to Europe and usa. Being a deciduous tree the green fall off it in autumn. It has nuts also that taste like banana republic
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Post by wellrounded on Feb 12, 2015 15:05:50 GMT 10
Historically about 900mm pa, I think I have figures for about 2000-2010. Essentially no surface water anywhere, certainly not on my land. Bores are pretty common though but we don't have one. That's twice our average rainfall and three times what we've been getting lately.
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myrrph
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Post by myrrph on Feb 12, 2015 16:33:51 GMT 10
i have 2 rivers running across my home. I'm good.
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