token
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Post by token on May 5, 2017 8:44:49 GMT 10
Lets face it, the chainsaw is a very important tool, holding its own place in serious preparedness. Whether gathering your wood for the season, or clearing a road that has a fallen tree down and blocks your path, or taking out a tree that is a hazard of sort.
I think there's enough of us here with enough experience to put together an informed resource for anyone wanting to learn the do's and what nots, as well as what to purchase etc, so have at it, and post up, plenty to talk about in this department. Ill weigh in with a few thoughts and experiences.
1) If your going to purchase a chainsaw, go for the most expensive brands, Stihl or Husqvarna. I havent owned a Huski, but i have now owned 2 stihls, and have mates with older ones that they have had well over 15 years and thrashed and they just keep going.
I do have a mate with a Shindawa and its a good saw, so look well to that brand too. No doubt others will weigh in here on the brand wars.
I have an efco (italian made), same brand pretty much as the Oleo-mac, they are made in the same factory, and my model efco is identical to the Oleo-mac in my specs. I wouldnt purchase an efco or Oleo-mac again personally, as the oil pump went on mine too early, and in breaking it down and flushing it etc it was no better. Its in the shop being repaired. The other thing is it doesnt rev hard enough, however, as for the engine, she keeps on going so no complaints there.
What i would say is, dont buy a cheap chainsaw. Some years back as a quick fence takerdowner i purchased an Aldi (Gardenline) chainsaw, $160 job. It did the job and i recently got her going again, so i wondered how long it would last on hard woods and giving her a workout. Yesty it wasnt idleing right, and after 1.5tanks it burnt out hard.
They just aren't made for real work, they are more of a quick job or small pruning job every now and then, so beware the cheap chainsaws.
Fuel mix: Regardless of what the machine is rated in 2 stroke mix, you should seek to mix 32:1. (32 parts fuel, 1 part oil). Using a good rated two stroke oil helps, rather than junk for better burn, more efficiency, and cleaner. If you run new gear 32:1, if you run old gear, or the rating says 25:1, go 25:1 then. Its easier to clean a fouled spark plug than to replace an engine! Too much oil will foul up the plug, which you can clean, too little oil will burn your engine out. So more oil than less is the go.
Check if your gear is smoking, if not then stick with it, if its smokey, then back off a little oil, try 35:1. The fact is, your gear will last longer.
The reason a lot of stuff comes in at 50:1 is to get into the country due to all the emissions stuff company's have to get through these days, but it doesn't make the mix right for the engine. More oil than less.
Battery Gear: If you can afford it, batteries are the go. In the stihl 1 handed chainsaws for arborists, the battery one will go just over 3 tanks of fuel to a battery, then of course you can change it out and or charge it up. It will also rev slightly harder than its stihl 2 stroke rival in similar specs.
Oil and fuel less your stocked up can be an issue, battery can be charged by solar easily enough. So this is something worth considering. Sorry though, i am not talking about bigger gear for bigger work, just smaller saws here, and will keep an eye on this stuff into the future as no doubts they will push the boundaries.
Sharpening your Chain. The fact is, it all starts and finishes with a sharp chain. A lot of people have difficulty sharpening their chain. I have a simple remedy. Get a $50 chainsaw sharpener and learn how it works. You will be able to repair older chains that are messed up from being used too hard when blunt, as well as get your chain sharp and ready to go faster than a file. I use my little 80watt $50 bench chainsaw sharpener and set it not to take meat off, rather to polish the edge.
I am yet to pick up my tungsten chain for my stihl and am interested in all the rav's ive heard about them as apparently they dont need sharpening like the standard ones.
Anyways, im still learning, this is just my opinion, and opinions can be fierce in this field, and look forward to reading everyone else's thoughs and experiences, hopefully this will make a great resource thread for anyone moving to the country and burning wood, or wanting to have one handy for a prep.
Here's a scenario for your consideration if you dont burn wood for some pondering:
'Trouble has hit in the suburban setting you live and its time to bug out to your BOL. Apparently riots are happening all over the area due to a breakdown in Government policy. By the time your wife comes home with your daughter from school, you dont have much time, but have already been delayed due to waiting for them and the incident hitting so quickly. You load the car and all leave for your bug out location, but 3 minutes into the drive your already seeing burning cars, homes, and people looting and fighting everywhere. A few streets later, someone has cut down an old telegraph pole onto a car and the road is blocked! To turn back could see trouble as you just got through, the road looks clear up ahead beyond that downed pole.
So my question is, are you glad you had a chainsaw ready to go in the back, or not? Happy posting.
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gasman
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Post by gasman on May 5, 2017 12:28:14 GMT 10
Couldn't agree more token
Firewood for cooking and heating is vital
Our local stihl shop had a chainsaw maintenance evening last night and was well attended
The new battery range is the main direction in the next years and they hope to have even big saws in electric form
They have a premix premium fuel mix with a 5 yr shelf life!-expensive but greet for preppers
We have about 5 yrs of firewood split and stacked and when u burn well aged wood it is fantastic!!
Rather than gym or run for exercise I go chop a trailerload!!
Petrol log splitter is also a serious force multiplier!!
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grumble
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Post by grumble on May 5, 2017 16:16:31 GMT 10
I cut a moderate amount of firewood every year and fall a lot of standing timber some of them are quite large trees
I run 3 saw a Jonsered with an 18# bar it can take a 20# bar but I don't use it I also have a MTD with a 16# bar and a Stihl MS 170 with a 12# bar
now my 170 does 70% of the work and there is a good reason for that its the bar length and over all size , weight of the saw
See people go out and buy a massive big saw and drop a tree and then end up with the chain hitting the dirt when they are cutting up the timber due to the bar simply being to long and the over all weight and power pulls the tip down into the dirt thus either blunting the chain or wrecking it totally
my only opinion I have on the whole issues is buy the right sized saw for the job bigger is not always better I would rather hold onto a 4kg saw for a couple of hours than one that weighed 8kg
what brand you buy is up to you just make sure you can buy parts for it and for the record I have a no name Chinese saw that I keep to only use for cutting submerged logs off the bridge out of my property in winter paid $90 for it from bunnins and it still works even after a few swims but I don't think it would last long for daily use
On the subject of the tungsten carbide tipped chains its important to note that they will cut on average 10 ton of wood before sharpening is needed and you can not sharpen them at home they need a special tool to sharpen them
are they worth the money ? yes and no for an example I can easily cut 5 ton a day once I get going I have 3 chains for each of my main saws that I keep sharp so one on the saw 2 spares so in some ways they are not worth it for daily usage however are they good for emergency usage hell yeah they will do something that will kill most chains very quickly and that is cut partially burnt trees
normal chains almost go instantly blunt when you hit burnt wood as the carbon sucks up the oil dry's out the chain and over heats it making it go blunt very quickly so if you are doing some fence line clearing after a fire then yes they are worth their money
also if you are in rough country they can handle hitting a few rocks and stuff as well unlike normal chains or even the odd nail
I also have a 25 ton log splitter and man I wouldn't be without it now life is pretty easy using petrol power rather than swinging a block splitter
I think token has seen some picture of the stuff I cut up on post somewhere I think his comment was some thing like
geez grumble why don't you pick on someone your own size
The last bit I have to add is
Learn to sharpen your chains properly a correctly sharpened chain will make short work of whatever you put in front of it where as an incorrectly sharpened chain will use more fuel make our saw work harder and make your back ace plus you will start to get uneven cuts when cutting up fallen trees and that annoying and dangerous if using a hydraulic log splitter as they really need a flat face to push through and curves can send the log shooting off under pressure when splitting
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ml8300
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Post by ml8300 on May 5, 2017 22:25:14 GMT 10
So in regards to oil fuel ratio,what's the best fuel to use 91 or 98 or does it not matter too much with 2 strokes?
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Post by Peter on May 5, 2017 22:47:42 GMT 10
token I agree for 99% of the time. For the remaining 1% however, I say buy the cheapest chainsaw you can lay your hands on. What's that 1% I hear you all scream? If you need to clear roots underground. I often use an el-cheapo electric chainsaw for this purpose, simply because exposure to sand will destroy a chain (and sometimes more). I've used Stihl and Husqvarna chainsaws, and where cutting any wood above ground is your job, go with them. They're reliable, tough, and they do the job very, very well. But for underground cutting where abrasion of sand is a concern I'd go the $99 ozito from the big green hardware store.
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Post by Peter on May 5, 2017 22:48:13 GMT 10
token awesome thread BTW. Thanks for starting it.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on May 5, 2017 22:51:51 GMT 10
I've got a Makita 2 stroke with 40cm bar ($300) and while it probably wont last as long as a stihl, I've had it 3 years and shes been good to me. Light enough that I've climbed a couple trees with it yet big enough to manage anything I've needed to do. Sometimes a larger one would be nice but I wouldn't have a larger one as my primary saw.
I've always run 50:1 to be honest, I'll have a play next time I do a mix. Try pushing it closer to 40 see what comes of it. Thanks for the tip.
I'd never heard of the tungsten tipped chains but it makes sense. I think I'd still rather a handful of steel chains as I imagine the cost would be more than I'm willing to pay... I typically give my blades a quick touch up and wipe down with oil after each session and its never been an issue. Seems like something more geared at the professional arborist.
ml8300; I've always used 91, I don't think you'd see any advantage to 98 given the low compression these things run at
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gasman
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Post by gasman on May 6, 2017 8:11:17 GMT 10
According to the engineers at this stihl evening 50/1 with modern synthetic oils is adequate and higher oil concentrations just create more carbon depositions
Older oils were 25/32 to 1
Agree with the points on learning to sharpen chains properly-a very important skill and lots on the internet about this
Old chainsaw bars make great knife blanks
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token
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Post by token on May 6, 2017 21:19:16 GMT 10
token awesome thread BTW. Thanks for starting it. No worries, tbh im keen to continue my learning in this field myself. The tech is changing all the time, the scenarios like you added about tree roots is important and i agree with that. Id also add that apparently cutting Palm Trees destroys a chainsaw as well, so it might pay (or not lol) to get a cheapy for those type of one off jobs. Regarding the scenario, the cheapy, as long as it hasnt been overworked and starts on time might do to get the old telegraph pole out of the way too. I know an old arborist fella and he told me never to buy the specialized chain oil, rather get the supermarket 5ltr cheapest motor oil you can. The reason he said is that their is an additive in the chain oil which causes it to stick and be viscous but when dropping trees and or going near dirt, this oil holds dirt and it becomes like a small grinder on your bar, cog and chain. He said the cheap motor oil flicks off and its all you need. He has had years in the industry as an old fella so i respect him, but i havent dont it yet. Interesting thoughts though, and something that preppers can consider if the end of the world happens and they cant find bar oil, just use clean motor oil. It might also be useful to run old filtered car oil, dunno. |
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token
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Post by token on May 6, 2017 21:21:38 GMT 10
So in regards to oil fuel ratio,what's the best fuel to use 91 or 98 or does it not matter too much with 2 strokes? As far as my research shows from asking those in the know there is no difference. I have however been told that you dont want to store a 2stroke mix longer than 3 months sitting, but with 98 octane it 'might' or 'can' sit longer. Id continue to check this out though with a bit more thought and research, be good to hear what others think. Another aspect that might come up is the 'heat' due to the higher fuel burn rate (98), might it need more oil in the mix so as to run cooler? Dont know |
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token
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Post by token on May 6, 2017 21:43:40 GMT 10
Today i picked up my tungsten tipped chain, Stihl brand made in Sweden. The cutting tooth looks thicker and is set at a different angle. I haven't given it a run yet, just fitted it this arvo.
Just on angle for anyone sharpening, with hard gums ive found that a 27 degree angle works quite well for being quick and staying sharp for a fair amount of cutting, but i am still learning and there are different chains out there that i would still like to try, so anyone else please weigh in on this.
I picked up my efco mt440 today also, and used her to cut up a bit of wood this afternoon. Only ran a tank, and haven't opened it up to see if its using good amount of oil to the tank.
Again another point here for resource is that a lot of chainsaws have an oil screw you can turn the bar oil amount either up or down, so if your having issues, take a look around to see if your saw has one and have a play. From my understanding, without consulting your chainsaw manual, its 3/4 of a tank of bar oil to 1 tank of fuel. My Efco manual states 'tank for tank' however. My stihl 461 with the screw set to full oil runs about 3/4 of a tank of bar oil to the tank of fuel however.
My old arborist mate has an old old chainsaw that does not have a self oiler, and he pours oil over the bar and just saws lol. When i told him about my Efco not using bar oil like it should (less than 1/4 tank bar oil to 1 tank fuel), he told me as long as it was using some not to worry about it lol. Thats not how i roll but imo this sort of stuff is welcomed for the end of the world if you cannot get parts or the right oil or your saw isnt oiling properly, you can get away with some crude methods.
I also asked the Stihl dealer about my other chainsaw mechanics comments about Stihl only running 50:1 mix due to emissions criteria, he shook his head and in a round about way disagreed and told me he has always run his saws as 50:1 and he cuts lots of timber and they are always good, but then he said, it wont hurt it so if i want to run it at 40:1. The other saw mechanic is an older fella, opposed to the younger stihl dealer, and seems interested in mechanical stuff, so im not sure what to make of it all at this stage. If anyone does find emissions criteria fixed on saw importation at 50:1 this might seemingly settle the argument as a necessary, but its good to know the Stihl saws can run at 50:1 without an issue, i just wonder if your saw would last longer run richer. Oh well, bit too deep for some, but at $1700 bucks for my saw, i dont want to have to fork it out ever again, hence doing it once, so getting the right mix to get a lifetime out of it is important to me.
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token
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Post by token on May 6, 2017 21:49:48 GMT 10
Is anyone using a 'Cant Hook' or a 'Log Peavey' or any other methods for turning and moving larger logs? I need to get one to make work easier, but for the moment im using a very thick solid steel bar to turn the logs after top cuts to finish them off. Only issue is, the bottom of the steel slips and or digs in too deep if the ground is soft. Be interested in thoughts
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shinester
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Post by shinester on May 7, 2017 11:37:09 GMT 10
I would consider any fuel you had to go to some kind of tractor if available followed by the chainsaw, they're that important in terms of labor saving. Have thought about ways of getting around that such as battery powered and solar charging. Even having an electric chainsaw, though you would then need a cart for the batteries to run.
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Post by graynomad on May 8, 2017 9:44:06 GMT 10
Is anyone using a 'Cant Hook' or a 'Log Peavey' or any other methods for turning and moving larger logs? I need to get one to make work easier, but for the moment im using a very thick solid steel bar to turn the logs after top cuts to finish them off. Only issue is, the bottom of the steel slips and or digs in too deep if the ground is soft. Be interested in thoughts I've been after a cant hook for ages but they are just too expensive and anyway I'm supposed to be a budding blacksmith so I should make my own right? Meanwhile I use a come-along as shown below.  |
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Post by graynomad on May 8, 2017 9:47:51 GMT 10
I would consider any fuel you had to go to some kind of tractor if available followed by the chainsaw, they're that important in terms of labor saving. Have thought about ways of getting around that such as battery powered and solar charging. Even having an electric chainsaw, though you would then need a cart for the batteries to run. I have a 240v electric chainsaw and did a lot of the initial clearing here with it. No I don't have a 500-metre extension lead, I put a generator in a trolley and trundled that around. |
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Post by Pasta Deefa on May 8, 2017 13:35:22 GMT 10
I too bought one of the Aldi garden line chainsaws for $99. I mostly use it for cutting firewood when I'm out west. The old seasoned Mulga is hard as nails and after a couple of days the poor thing is in dire need maintenance. The bar tends to come loose by the end of every tank and the whole unit needs to be stripped and cleaned. It's better than slugging it out with hand tools, but I am looking for an upgrade when finances allow. One thing I have noticed is that it starts much easier with a fresh tank of 98 octane on board. It's a pig to start if it is left to sit or I try feeding it lower octane fuel.
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token
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Post by token on May 8, 2017 17:26:23 GMT 10
Is anyone using a 'Cant Hook' or a 'Log Peavey' or any other methods for turning and moving larger logs? I need to get one to make work easier, but for the moment im using a very thick solid steel bar to turn the logs after top cuts to finish them off. Only issue is, the bottom of the steel slips and or digs in too deep if the ground is soft. Be interested in thoughts I've been after a cant hook for ages but they are just too expensive and anyway I'm supposed to be a budding blacksmith so I should make my own right? Meanwhile I use a come-along as shown below. Ive got a small come along winch the same, but way too much work imo Gray. You have to have the tie off point or make it, connect everything up and so on, then, get the spike out of the ground etc when your finished. Today i purchased a peavey for $150 and freight at $30 or so, it was the cheaper of the ones ive seen so hope its ok, ill update as to how it goes. |
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token
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Post by token on May 8, 2017 17:42:10 GMT 10
I too bought one of the Aldi garden line chainsaws for $99. I mostly use it for cutting firewood when I'm out west. The old seasoned Mulga is hard as nails and after a couple of days the poor thing is in dire need maintenance. The bar tends to come loose by the end of every tank and the whole unit needs to be stripped and cleaned. It's better than slugging it out with hand tools, but I am looking for an upgrade when finances allow. One thing I have noticed is that it starts much easier with a fresh tank of 98 octane on board. It's a pig to start if it is left to sit or I try feeding it lower octane fuel. Just a thought on the starting. I'm surprised you said that as there isn't supposed to be any difference between the 91 or 98 in respect to fuel for 2 stokes, other than the 2 stroke oil quality, or for how long the fuel actually sits before being used. One thing that does come to mind however is the sequence some 2 stroke engines require for cold starting, its generally, a few prime pumps of the fuel, and a few pulls of the cord with the choke on, then off choke, and a few pulls to get it going. Food for thought, as i recall spending almost 5 hours trying to start my aldi chainsaw one time till i worked it out. |
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token
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Post by token on May 8, 2017 17:48:34 GMT 10
Today i had some time to use the tungsten chain on the 461.
First log was a good size on the ground that i need a cant hook or peavey to move but thought id give it a go cutting the log most of the way through until she started to pinch a touch on the bar and chain and then pull out and cut again.
Well the tungsten chain was making butter of this hard gum and i was loving it....
I got about 10 good cuts in and then the on one cut through it wasnt going through as well, so i stood up and looked at the other side where the tip of the bar was poking through and.....
There was a good fist sized quartz rock with a really nice smoothed area where the tungsten chain had tried cutting through it...
after that the tungsten chain might as well be another stick trying to hit its way through the log.....
$160 for 10 cuts....i walked around rest of the arvo with my head down not talking to anyone kicking stones and dust up lol.
So now i have to find out if i cant sharpen this thing...if..
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shinester
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Post by shinester on May 8, 2017 18:07:26 GMT 10
I have a 240v electric chainsaw and did a lot of the initial clearing here with it. No I don't have a 500-metre extension lead, I put a generator in a trolley and trundled that around. Ha, still using fuel  - Running 500m will run into issues with cable thickness and voltage drop ipdgroup.com.au/ipdwc/VoltageDrop.aspx |
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