lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 7, 2021 0:31:39 GMT 10
Nice quote of mine, Tim. The useless eater is now a teacher, still lazy, and was only complaining last night that after the current week long break he has to work for 10 weeks before his next break. 6hrs a day, 5 days a week must be tough. Whereas my son worked 36hrs straight last week. Probably totalled 100hrs on the tools that week. Just revisiting this thread. My maths is not that good but what do you mean, 36 hours in a week and 100 hours on the tools? Two jobs? |
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 7, 2021 5:34:49 GMT 10
One job. He started at 6am one morning, worked continuously until 6pm the following evening (36hrs), went home to bed, got up next day and did his normal 12 - 14 hr shift, 6 or 7 days a week. A colleague said that's illegal, but our government often expects it of their employees.
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Post by Stealth on Apr 7, 2021 15:07:33 GMT 10
Im not interested in shiny meaningless tokens to trade with. The monetary/usary system needs to be abolished in favor of a pay it forward type of economy imo. Id much rather be paid in kindness than in gold and silver. "Enlightened beings are magnanimous givers,bestowing whatever they have with equanimity,without regret,without hoping for reward,without seeking honor,without coveting material benefits,but only to rescue and safeguard all living beings." Does the fact that silver is a scientifically proven and still regularly used antimicrobial change your opinion on shiny things? I learned the other day that in Spanish hospitals when soldiers required trepanation after a head wound to reduce the pressure, they would use silver coins that had holes drilled in them to cover the hole left by the drill. The skin would heal over the wound and into the holes in the coin and make it a permanent part of the skull. Because of the antimicrobial properties of silver, they had an incredibly low ate of infection after the surgeries. I like silver cause it's shiny. But it's not exactly 'meaningless'  |
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 7, 2021 21:55:28 GMT 10
Im not interested in shiny meaningless tokens to trade with. The monetary/usary system needs to be abolished in favor of a pay it forward type of economy imo. Id much rather be paid in kindness than in gold and silver. "Enlightened beings are magnanimous givers,bestowing whatever they have with equanimity,without regret,without hoping for reward,without seeking honor,without coveting material benefits,but only to rescue and safeguard all living beings." Does the fact that silver is a scientifically proven and still regularly used antimicrobial change your opinion on shiny things? I learned the other day that in Spanish hospitals when soldiers required trepanation after a head wound to reduce the pressure, they would use silver coins that had holes drilled in them to cover the hole left by the drill. The skin would heal over the wound and into the holes in the coin and make it a permanent part of the skull. Because of the antimicrobial properties of silver, they had an incredibly low ate of infection after the surgeries. I like silver cause it's shiny. But it's not exactly 'meaningless' I did not know that. Todays silver coinage is not like in times past, isnt it just silver plated? Not that it matters i suppose, does the silver leach into the bloodstream?
Just read a little on trepanation, literally mind blowing! www.encyclopedia.com/medicine/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/trepanation
But i stand by what i said in regards to trading with money which includes gold and silver. I just have a different mindset on the matter, money and those stamped coins with the queen on them are just a reminder who and what rules you. Not that i can get away from it, without it i probably wouldn't survive long term right now, but im working on long term survival as prep number 1 in case of wrol, bank/monetary collapse. Like i mean they cant take away from me what i dont have.
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 8, 2021 8:18:24 GMT 10
I learned the other day that in Spanish hospitals when soldiers required trepanation after a head wound to reduce the pressure, they would use silver coins that had holes drilled in them to cover the hole left by the drill. The skin would heal over the wound and into the holes in the coin and make it a permanent part of the skull. Because of the antimicrobial properties of silver, they had an incredibly low ate of infection after the surgeries. You watched the Townsends Spanish Military Hospital episode didn't you !!! |
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Post by Stealth on Apr 8, 2021 12:49:08 GMT 10
I learned the other day that in Spanish hospitals when soldiers required trepanation after a head wound to reduce the pressure, they would use silver coins that had holes drilled in them to cover the hole left by the drill. The skin would heal over the wound and into the holes in the coin and make it a permanent part of the skull. Because of the antimicrobial properties of silver, they had an incredibly low ate of infection after the surgeries. You watched the Townsends Spanish Military Hospital episode didn't you !!! I sure did! I love their videos, great place to learn old techniques (cooking) and learn tips and tricks for things that have long been forgotten. I've been watching them for years now. I got into them because of all the old recipes that they used to make but I still really enjoy learning from them . There's a few different channels that I watch for the same reason. Max Miller's "Tasting History" is a great watch too although I can't see myself trying his most recent recipe. Roasted heart with mead. The mead I'd take, but heart is WAY too rubbery of a cut to just roast and eat. Thin sliced in a broth is a different story but even then I'm told you basically have to treat it like abalone and that's more technical than my general cooking skills allow for haha. |
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Post by Stealth on Apr 8, 2021 13:06:31 GMT 10
To be honest, I'm not sure what the alloy in today's 'silver' would do to the human body over the long term. And I'm not sure about the long term effects of silver being implanted into the body would be either, although I would suspect the benefits would far outweigh the risks when it comes to hole vs. no hole lol. But I don't collect bog standard 'silver' coins. 999Ag or bust in my books. Well, that's not exactly true. I do have some jewelry that I wear purely to have a portable source of barter-able metals on me. It's a lot more convenient than carrying around a chook for eggs, or walking a cow everywhere in case I suddenly need to trade milk for bread. While silver isn't currently a high-barter item I think in a genuine SHTF situation it wouldn't take long to become a more common trade item. As a random example of why my idea of metals for barter is my preference... If I were to offer my wedding band at a service station as surety until I came back to pay because I forgot my card, they'd probably accept that. Not because it's sentimental and I'll almost certainly come back for it but because it's gold and has an understood intrinsic value to almost everyone, everywhere. If I were to offer them my car jumpstart power-box (which cost about the same amount... Yikes! haha) they'd likely say no. Because despite being valuable and expensive, they can't sell it off to just about anyone that walks in the door. A much smaller group of people are going to see the intrinsic value of the item. But a gold ring? Anyone will accept that as valuable. And that's today, in a non-SHTF situation. In an SHTF situation where people can no longer afford the fuel to run a car (economic collapse is my biggest concern) that jump start battery is worth even less. But throughout history gold and silver have been seen as valuable no matter what. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather barter skills and produce if I had it. I think that's a much wiser move if you can, because you can't steal someone's knowledge and experience from them but you can certainly steal their shiny stuff! But I'm willing to admit that no matter how much I try to learn I can never be a master of everything I might ever need to know so I hedge against that. And dementia. I already forget my own phone number. I'll be in trouble if I ever need to remember skills I learned 15 years ago and haven't used since  . |
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Post by milspec on Apr 8, 2021 19:32:36 GMT 10
Whilst bartering undeniably has its place, Gold and silver have served as money for very valid reasons. Barter has significant limitations and that's one of the reasons that 'money' in the form of gold and silver came to be the necessary medium of exchange. If you have cows and the item you want is something small like a bottle of booze, you can't really cut of 5% of your cow to pay for the booze. The 'gold standard' exists for a reason... for anyone that has an interest in the history of money, I would highly recommend reading "The Bitcoin Standard" whilst that book does eventually talk about bitcoin, it first spends many chapters talking about money and why it exists to replace barter.
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 8, 2021 19:36:54 GMT 10
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 1:02:14 GMT 10
Whilst bartering undeniably has its place, Gold and silver have served as money for very valid reasons. Barter has significant limitations and that's one of the reasons that 'money' in the form of gold and silver came to be the necessary medium of exchange. If you have cows and the item you want is something small like a bottle of booze, you can't really cut of 5% of your cow to pay for the booze. The 'gold standard' exists for a reason... for anyone that has an interest in the history of money, I would highly recommend reading "The Bitcoin Standard" whilst that book does eventually talk about bitcoin, it first spends many chapters talking about money and why it exists to replace barter. I get what you are saying but for want of a bottle of booze is not really a good analogy imo. The gold and silver standard exists because that is all we are taught to know, anything else will seem like an aberration of the process of unlimited growth through monetary means. Which reminds me of an old American Indian Cree quote.
"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money."
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Apr 9, 2021 8:25:26 GMT 10
gold and silver is a great standard in my opinion, hard won from the ground and definitely not something that is just taught . All primary industries are the same, hard work equals reward. I can understand why people in todays society do not understand this where they can buy anything they want without ever knowing how hard it is to produce.
The effort, heartache and luck that goes into finding your own gold dictates that if someone else wants your gold or silver then they are going to have to pay well for it. It can be scaled up or down to suit the purchase and is readily transported. It does have value.
Plastic money does not allow for effective trade in a major shtf scenario. Remember the wheelbarrows of Deutschmarks in post war Germany that could not buy a loaf of bread?
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Post by Stealth on Apr 9, 2021 9:01:29 GMT 10
You make a good point, and one that a lot of people use frequently. Metals can't be eaten. Well, they can... But I wouldn't recommend it. So it's true that holding onto metals alone is probably going to end poorly. Which is why I advocate for having both metals and barterables. And even some fiat for the first few hours/days/MAYBE weeks while people are still not yet across the fact that money isn't worth anything anymore.
Make up, chocolate, coffee, cigarettes... Anything that people want to help regain some normalcy bias becomes super valuable too.
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Post by milspec on Apr 9, 2021 9:03:06 GMT 10
Whilst bartering undeniably has its place, Gold and silver have served as money for very valid reasons. Barter has significant limitations and that's one of the reasons that 'money' in the form of gold and silver came to be the necessary medium of exchange. If you have cows and the item you want is something small like a bottle of booze, you can't really cut of 5% of your cow to pay for the booze. The 'gold standard' exists for a reason... for anyone that has an interest in the history of money, I would highly recommend reading "The Bitcoin Standard" whilst that book does eventually talk about bitcoin, it first spends many chapters talking about money and why it exists to replace barter. I get what you are saying but for want of a bottle of booze is not really a good analogy imo. The gold and silver standard exists because that is all we are taught to know, anything else will seem like an aberration of the process of unlimited growth through monetary means. Which reminds me of an old American Indian Cree quote.
"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money."
The analogy merely represents the problem of barter when one party has something large and indivisible and the other party has something small and of low value. This occurs all the time. In this context money is simply about being a medium of exchange. People wanting to amass hordes of money and putting money & profit ahead of other needs is a completely different issue. I completely agree that some people/companies are screwing the masses and the planet just out of greed for more money. |
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 9, 2021 9:14:10 GMT 10
The problem with barter is you have to find someone who has what you need and needs what you have. Cash eliminates this problem.
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 11:41:25 GMT 10
I get what you are saying but for want of a bottle of booze is not really a good analogy imo. The gold and silver standard exists because that is all we are taught to know, anything else will seem like an aberration of the process of unlimited growth through monetary means. Which reminds me of an old American Indian Cree quote.
"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money."
The analogy merely represents the problem of barter when one party has something large and indivisible and the other party has something small and of low value. This occurs all the time. In this context money is simply about being a medium of exchange. People wanting to amass hordes of money and putting money & profit ahead of other needs is a completely different issue. I completely agree that some people/companies are screwing the masses and the planet just out of greed for more money.
Okay well that would necessitate a different trade off wouldn't it? Unless the man selling the booze wants steak, maybe he needs to find a butcher/abattoir who is willing to trade for a kilo of rump? This is why i said the analogy is not a good one. If i were to trade and i drink alcohol i would ask the person to get me more booze equal to what the cow might be worth and only maths seems to dictate what an object may or may not be worth and the work required to earn it. Now this comes back to agreeing with people/companies screwing the masses over by use of greed for more money, they dictate the terms of the transaction you make, they dictate what objects/people are worth. So it is indeed part of the issue in my opinion.
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Post by milspec on Apr 9, 2021 20:13:30 GMT 10
lonewolf what if you're a farmer and every season you produce a 1 tonne crop. You want to barter for a tractor, the guy with the tractor says ok he'll swap you the tractor but he wants 5 tonnes of crops for it. You can't produce 5 tonnes of crops and you can't save them up from season to season because they'll rot. This is another reason money exists, it can store value, you can save it up from season to season and then buy your tractor. Money isn't evil, (people ... well that's another matter) money serves a much needed purpose, hence why it has existed for thousands of years in one form or another. But hey everyone is entitled to an opinion.
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 21:58:53 GMT 10
lonewolf what if you're a farmer and every season you produce a 1 tonne crop. You want to barter for a tractor, the guy with the tractor says ok he'll swap you the tractor but he wants 5 tonnes of crops for it. You can't produce 5 tonnes of crops and you can't save them up from season to season because they'll rot. This is another reason money exists, it can store value, you can save it up from season to season and then buy your tractor. Money isn't evil, (people ... well that's another matter) money serves a much needed purpose, hence why it has existed for thousands of years in one form or another. But hey everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Hey i get it, but why do i need a tractor and why am i producing 1 tonne crops, do i really need a tractor? Seems the fellow with the tractor is better suited to lending a hand with the tractor so we can work out a deal perhaps?
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 10, 2021 0:37:39 GMT 10
Good quote by John Lane. Timeless Simplicity: Creative living in a consumer society.
“The industrialist was horrified to find the fisherman lying beside his boat, smoking a pipe. - Why aren’t you fishing?, said the industrialist. - Because I have caught enough fish for the day. - Why don’t you catch some more? - What would I do with them? - Earn more money. Then you could have a motor fixed to your boat and go into deeper waters and catch more fish. That would bring you money to buy nylon nets, so more fish, more money. Soon you would have enough to buy two boats even a fleet of boats. Then you could be rich like me. - What would I do then? - Then you could sit back and enjoy life. - What do you think I’m doing now?”
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Jul 7, 2024 11:02:41 GMT 10
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