bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 8, 2021 11:55:05 GMT 10
Those that have read my posts will know that I do believe in COVID as a serious disease and I do support the vaccination programme. But the variants are a big problem - there is protection from at least several of the vaccines, but not nearly as high as against the original strains. Increasingly its not clear what 'herd immunity' will actually mean. The vaccine essentially stops death from the main strains and certainly with the Pfizer one it protects from transmission. If the vaccine stops you dying from variant - which it looks like it does, but doesn't protect from transmission - which is what it currently looks like - which is still being studied - how does that fit with national and state strategy?
The Federal government comes across as taking a low risk approach. But certain states, particularly WA are going for zero risk - which is unsustainable in my view
So where are we going? Where do you see state control in 12 months? Do you see an wider implications of this?
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 8, 2021 12:15:13 GMT 10
There was a report this morning from the USA, Michigan from memory, that several fully vaccinated people have died from covid. I don't know what strain or what brand vaccine they had taken, but that must cause some concern.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Apr 8, 2021 12:47:23 GMT 10
My Forward Operating Base is totally free of Covid and hopefully is going to stay that way! However I did have it confirmed yesterday via the GP that I have antibodies present for both Barmah Forest and Ross River Viruses! I feel pleased that I achieved correct self diagnosis on the Ross River, like no wonder I couldn't walk for a week! Faark it's hard work being a Militant Survivalist in a FOB!
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 8, 2021 13:37:30 GMT 10
My Forward Operating Base is totally free of Covid and hopefully is going to stay that way! However I did have it confirmed yesterday via the GP that I have antibodies present for both Barmah Forest and Ross River Viruses! I feel pleased that I achieved correct self diagnosis on the Ross River, like no wonder I couldn't walk for a week! Faark it's hard work being a Militant Survivalist in a FOB! And raising the next 2 generations of Militant Survivalists.
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dirtdiva
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Post by dirtdiva on Apr 8, 2021 23:00:11 GMT 10
Pfizer released a press release on April 1 that states that " Analysis of 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 demonstrates BNT162b2 is highly effective with 91.3% vaccine efficacy observed against COVID-19, measured seven days through up to six months after the second dose " Here is the link. www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-seriousIt also clearly states that it was tested against the South African strain. " Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing COVID-19 cases in South Africa, where the B.1.351 lineage is prevalent " I received the first of my Moderna vaccines 2 weeks ago and will receive the second in coming days. My observations in my area is that a great many older Americans are choosing to get the vaccine due to the risk factors for older patients. My husband and I made the choice thinking we are more likely to survive the vaccine than the virus. When we were vaccinated we received a vaccine card from the CDC ( Center for Disease Control ). We were vaccinated in a church parking lot by National Guard medics. It was emphasized that we could still get the disease just not as severe and we could continue to transmit the disease. It was also recommended to continue to wear masks in large gatherings. Just our personal experiences with the vaccine. This week the media is reporting the numbers are climbing again, that the UK strain which is more contagious is the majority of cases and a huge spike in the younger population which is predominantly unvaccinated. Understand though that many states including mine started with their oldest citizens and moved to their younger. SO in my area atleast vaccines for the young have JUST become available. So for the future I think definitely booster shots probably yearly. I think that the disease is here to stay and we will fight it for years to come. My personal fear is that as it mutates it will eventually mutate to something even deadlier. Zero risk is unsustainable unless a state completely closes down.
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 0:27:57 GMT 10
Isn't a vaccine meant to inoculate you from the disease? So far all i have read on these so called vaccines (emergency trial mRNA experimental gene therapies) is that they dont.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 9, 2021 5:33:17 GMT 10
Isn't a vaccine meant to inoculate you from the disease? So far all i have read on these so called vaccines (emergency trial mRNA experimental gene therapies) is that they dont. It works that way for smallpox, measles, mumps and rubella, but not for covid. That's a good question lonewolf, one that would probably get you banned on Facebook or Twitter. Maybe the vaccine is ineffective because it was rushed, or maybe big pharma want a continuous new stream of profit, or maybe it's about govt control. Some Covid facts: Will the vaccine prevent you catching covid: No Will the vaccine prevent you spreading covid: No Will the vaccine prevent you dying from covid: No Can the vaccine cause life threatening side effects: Yes Can you litigate for damages if it does: No Will I ever take the vaccine: No
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Post by spinifex on Apr 9, 2021 8:26:23 GMT 10
My husband and I made the choice thinking we are more likely to survive the vaccine than the virus. It is really good to see proper risk assessment in action. This statement shows a very sound line of critical thinking.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 9, 2021 8:38:49 GMT 10
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 9, 2021 11:28:03 GMT 10
Isn't a vaccine meant to inoculate you from the disease? So far all i have read on these so called vaccines (emergency trial mRNA experimental gene therapies) is that they dont. It works that way for smallpox, measles, mumps and rubella, but not for covid. That's a good question lonewolf, one that would probably get you banned on Facebook or Twitter. Maybe the vaccine is ineffective because it was rushed, or maybe big pharma want a continuous new stream of profit, or maybe it's about govt control. Some Covid facts: Will the vaccine prevent you catching covid: No Will the vaccine prevent you spreading covid: No Will the vaccine prevent you dying from covid: No Can the vaccine cause life threatening side effects: Yes Can you litigate for damages if it does: No Will I ever take the vaccine: No There are six vaccines in use - stop saying “COvID vaccine”, because there is no “COVID vaccine”. There are 6 currently on wide use and all have pros and cons and are different - the constant references to COVID vaccine does your arguments no help at all. In regards to the Pfizer vaccine..... Will it prevent you catching COVID - yes - in any clinically apparent way. Will it stop you spreading COVID - yes - based on the Israeli and just published US study Will it prevent you dying from COVID - yes Can it cause life threatening complications - yes - in common with every single medicine on the market Will I ever have the vaccine - yes - and already have. Don’t have it. I don’t care if people don’t want it, it’s personal choice - but your statements about are disingenuous to say the least. In terms of the AstraZeneca vaccine - yes it appears to cause problems with clotting - but at a rate of 1/4 to 1/3 of what the combined oral contraceptives does...... so it is less dangerous than the pill.... that risk personally might be to great.... but please keep it in perspective. Anyway this is off topic for my thread so stop hijacking it and get back on topic !!!
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 11:54:31 GMT 10
It works that way for smallpox, measles, mumps and rubella, but not for covid. That's a good question lonewolf, one that would probably get you banned on Facebook or Twitter. Maybe the vaccine is ineffective because it was rushed, or maybe big pharma want a continuous new stream of profit, or maybe it's about govt control. Some Covid facts: Will the vaccine prevent you catching covid: No Will the vaccine prevent you spreading covid: No Will the vaccine prevent you dying from covid: No Can the vaccine cause life threatening side effects: Yes Can you litigate for damages if it does: No Will I ever take the vaccine: No There are six vaccines in use - stop saying “COvID vaccine”, because there is no “COVID vaccine”. There are 6 currently on wide use and all have pros and cons and are different - the constant references to COVID vaccine does your arguments no help at all. In regards to the Pfizer vaccine..... Will it prevent you catching COVID - yes - in any clinically apparent way. Will it stop you spreading COVID - yes - based on the Israeli and just published US study Will it prevent you dying from COVID - yes Can it cause life threatening complications - yes - in common with every single medicine on the market Will I ever have the vaccine - yes - and already have. Don’t have it. I don’t care if people don’t want it, it’s personal choice - but your statements about are disingenuous to say the least. In terms of the AstraZeneca vaccine - yes it appears to cause problems with clotting - but at a rate of 1/4 to 1/3 of what the combined oral contraceptives does...... so it is less dangerous than the pill.... that risk personally might be to great.... but please keep it in perspective. Anyway this is off topic for my thread so stop hijacking it and get back on topic !!!
So what are you saying, that there is no covid vaccines?
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 9, 2021 12:25:48 GMT 10
No. There are six seperate vaccines against the COVID 19 virus. All six are different with good points and bad. There is no “COVID vaccine” in a universal sense. Comments about are about specific vaccines so you need to say which one you are talking about - they are not interchangeable.
I get some people don’t like vaccines and believe they do or don’t do all sorts of things. But if you are going to criticise something the onus is on you to accurately describe what you are talking about.
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 12:33:49 GMT 10
No. There are six seperate vaccines against the COVID 19 virus. All six are different with good points and bad. There is no “COVID vaccine” in a universal sense. Comments about are about specific vaccines so you need to say which one you are talking about - they are not interchangeable. I get some people don’t like vaccines and believe they do or don’t do all sorts of things. But if you are going to criticise something the onus is on you to accurately describe what you are talking about. Maybe you should change the title of your thread.
And even in your original post you refer to the disease as COVID. I think we all know what variant of coronavirus is being talked about.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 9, 2021 12:34:50 GMT 10
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 9, 2021 12:42:59 GMT 10
Deleted because I corrected my spelling mistakes by reposting twice!
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 9, 2021 12:45:55 GMT 10
Think we might be getting circular. COVID is the virus. We can call it SARS-COV-2 if you want, but the point is about the vsccines. COVID vaccine isn’t a thing - it is six individual things. Generic statements about COVID vaccine are meaningless..... what one are you talking about?
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 12:54:43 GMT 10
Think we might be getting circular. COVID is the virus. We can call it SARS-COV-2 if you want, but the point is about the vsccines. COVID vaccine isn’t a thing - it is six individual things. Generic statements about COVID vaccine are meaningless..... what one are you talking about?
I thought i was being verbose enough in my first post.
The pfizer and moderna i believe?
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 9, 2021 13:08:29 GMT 10
I don’t know about Moderna. But for Pfizer good evidence it protects against asymptotic infection - which is where the transmission risk is!
But I’m still interested in thoughts on my original question, what is .gov going to do next given a moderate chance vaccination won’t achieve what they want it to?
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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf on Apr 9, 2021 13:13:31 GMT 10
I don’t know about Moderna. But for Pfizer good evidence it protects against asymptotic infection - which is where the transmission risk is! But I’m still interested in thoughts on my original question, what is .gov going to do next given a moderate chance vaccination won’t achieve what they want it to? Do have any links to the evidence ?
Ive no idea what the government has plans for but i suppose if failure is a chance then more lockdowns, more mandatory mask wearing , business as usual in the sense of repeating 2020 again on a much stricter level if the variants get stronger and more people start to die ?
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bce1
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Post by bce1 on Apr 9, 2021 13:59:28 GMT 10
Not to hand here at work, but the Israeli data was in the Lancet and the US was in the NEJM pre-print section - so should be relatively easy to find.
I agree about the response, but I’m not sure about the end-point - if you cannot fix it with vaccination then do you ‘learn to live with it’ or do you keep doing what we are doing?
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