sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Mar 16, 2014 7:26:20 GMT 10
So Sunday will be interesting to see what the result will be and how it's taken by the west. My understanding is that the president elect Viktor Yanukovych fled the country after all hell broke loose and asked an ally to assist in restoring order. Here is where I see the real issue - and that is with Putin and Obama.
Roughly I see it in the following way; Putin has dragged Russia back to be a serious country that's regained it's old global power position - I actually think it is stronger now than it ever was. Putin has a No Nonsense attitude. He is old school KGB and hates Obama and America with a passion. He has forged stronger ties with several countries that are quickly stepping up as well. He was a major player in forming the 'BRICS - Bank'. He has access to a lot of untapped resources and is rebuilding major rail-links and building new pipelines. He is buying a lot of Offensive role weapons opposed to other countries purchasing history of defensive role weaponry (the US is also buying and developing offensive weaponry - the intend to have the first 'rail-gun' operating on board a ship by 2016 from memory as ship born missiles are becoming redundant). He prevented Obama from using missiles in Syria and basically neutralised the US missile strike ability against Syria using a GPS jammer. That's why the US never adopted a missile strike war as they have previously with Sadam Hussein. Now Obama - bankrupt after the afghan war, has used up the majority of gold stored there from other countries (Germany wanted an audit on their gold reserves held in the USA for them only to be told NO - they then struck an agreement to repay that gold back over several years - Merkel is not a happy camper). They are backing A-Q in Syria to depose Bashar al-Assad - after waging a war against A-Q and terror to me it looks like they defeated the original purpose and that was to destroy A-Q. Oh wait Syria has lots of quality oil!!! They owe China Trillions in debit. The list goes on. They are showing their military strength by using Drones now in Pakistan and not in a very effective way as mobile phones are loaned to family and friends on a regular basis and often the wrong person gets blown up so it seems over there. They are now so paranoid they need to spy on the world, NSA, XKeyscore, Metadata, Patriot act and so on.
So to simplify things - to me it looks like the actual elected president was overthrown by a more US friendly replacement. And the original elected president asked an ally to come in and restore order. If I got this wrong please point out where and what I am in error with, as this is how it looks to me. {News article below}. Russia vetoes US-endorsed UN resolution on Crimea.
Russia has vetoed a UN Security Council’s resolution, endorsed by the US, to declare a planned referendum on the status of Ukraine’s Black Sea peninsula of Crimea “illegal.”
The resolution received 13 votes in the 15-member council. This is while, China abstained on the resolution. The brief resolution read that the Ukrainian government in Kiev does not support the referendum.
"This referendum can have no validity, and cannot form the basis for any alteration of the status of Crimea," it stated while calling on "all states, international organizations and specialized agencies not to recognize any alteration of the status of Crimea on the basis of this referendum."
Russia's veto came as the Security Council has held six prior meetings on Ukraine in less than two weeks. However, it has been unable to take any move due to Russia's veto power.
Moscow, which has deployed military forces to Crimea, is backing Sunday referendum, which would transfer control of the region from Ukraine to Russia.
Pro-Russian population of Crimea is seeking to break away from Ukraine, which is now controlled by pro-Western authorities, and join neighboring Russia.
Tensions have been running high in Ukraine since ousted president, Viktor Yanukovych, left the country following violent clashes between police and pro-Western protesters in Kiev, which were fueled by messages of support from the US and certain European Union governments
Pro-Western activists launched their protests in November after Yanukovych decided to reject a deal with the European Union in favour of closer relations with the Russian Federation.
MOL/AB/SS
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Mar 16, 2014 7:32:48 GMT 10
Yup, also don't forget the far right groups involvement in all this!
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Mar 16, 2014 8:50:46 GMT 10
Yup, also don't forget the far right groups involvement in all this! Shhh!! Didn't want to go down that road!
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Big Ted
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Post by Big Ted on Mar 16, 2014 20:21:23 GMT 10
Yup, also don't forget the far right groups involvement in all this! Which is Whom exactly and what is it that makes them " Far Right "?
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Mar 16, 2014 20:34:17 GMT 10
We are talking about neo nazis here! Quote from RT report: rt.com/news/merkel-ukraine-answer-sanctions-658/ Gysi was furious that Germany is doing nothing to address the extreme right threat in Ukraine. "With fascists in Ukraine we are doing nothing. Svoboda party has tight contacts with NPD and other Nazi parties in Europe.. The leader of this party, Oleg Tyagnibok, has recalled that literally.” The Left’s leader went on to read a quote from Tyagnibok, where he publically urged people in Ukraine to “Grab the guns, fight the Russian pigs, the Germans, the Jews pigs and others.” “And with these Svoboda people we are still in conversation! I find it as a scandal!” Gysi told his fellow politicians. Try this link www.globalresearch.ca/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/5373569. Heaps more online about it all. There is propaganda coming from both sides! It is so thick it takes a while to wade through it all.
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wolfstar
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Post by wolfstar on Mar 16, 2014 21:57:07 GMT 10
Rem, i think you hit the nail on the head in every point. i have been mulling these over in my mind for a couple of weeks now, waiting to see what happened, but im pretty sure you are right on mark. also note the new nazi eagle "boy" brand shirts that have become trendy. i wonder if others made the same connection (the eagle is identical!) and whom the profits go to?
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Post by pheniox17 on Mar 16, 2014 22:12:04 GMT 10
"i will provide you with 1 billion US dollars in aid, under conditions. one of the conditions is you will no longer give energy subsidies to your people" - white house offical (sbs world news)
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Big Ted
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Post by Big Ted on Mar 16, 2014 23:38:15 GMT 10
We are talking about neo nazis here! Quote from RT report: rt.com/news/merkel-ukraine-answer-sanctions-658/Gysi was furious that Germany is doing nothing to address the extreme right threat in Ukraine. "With fascists in Ukraine we are doing nothing. Svoboda party has tight contacts with NPD and other Nazi parties in Europe.. The leader of this party, Oleg Tyagnibok, has recalled that literally.” The Left’s leader went on to read a quote from Tyagnibok, where he publically urged people in Ukraine to “Grab the guns, fight the Russian pigs, the Germans, the Jews pigs and others.” Try this link www.globalresearch.ca/washington-fuels-rise-of-neo-nazism-and-anti-semitism-in-ukraine-the-role-of-john-mccain/5373569. Heaps more online about it all. There is propaganda coming from both sides! It is so thick it takes a while to wade through it all. Cheers mate. Looks messy for sure.
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Mar 17, 2014 5:32:10 GMT 10
(Putin-power-ranger can't/won't back down on this now. Question is what will Obey-me's next move be? This game has just stepped up and the stakes are getting closer to someone going 'All-In')
Exit polls show Crimea votes for secession
Russian media says exit polls show 93 percent of voters elected to join Russia, in a move the West deems illegal.
Last updated: 16 Mar 2014 18:53
Russian media has reported that exit polls show the overwhelming majority of voters in Crimea supported union with Russia in the peninsula's referendum Russian state news agency RIA quoted an exit poll as showing 93 percent of voters backed the move on Sunday.
Another Russian news agency, Interfax, said voter turnout had exceeded 80 percent. Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Ukraine's new prime minister, has said that neither Kiev nor the West would recognise the referendum's results, which it says is being conducted at gunpoint. "Now, on the territory of the autonomous republic of Crimea under the staged direction of the Russian Federation, a circus performance is underway: the so-called referendum," Yatsenyuk told a government meeting. "Also taking part in the performance are 21,000 Russian troops, who with their guns are trying to prove the legality of the referendum." In a phone call with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Russian President Vladimir Putin promised to respect Crimeans' decision, and said that the referendum complied with international law. There were two options available in the referendum. Firstly, "are you in favour of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?" The second option was "are you in favour of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?"
Returning to the 1992 constitution would give Crimea's government sweeping powers to make its own laws and control its own governance, while technically remaining part of Ukraine. Pro-Russian armed forces took control of the strategic peninsula with a majority ethnic-Russian population soon after the Kremlin-backed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich fled Kiev last month after three months of deadly protests against his rule. Source: A-J
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Mar 17, 2014 8:23:11 GMT 10
Oh how funny, Putin- power- ranger and Obey-me!
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Jun 7, 2014 14:55:35 GMT 10
The U.S. Is Sending Military Advisers to Ukraine • By Marina Koren •National Journal •June 6, 2014 • U.S. military advisers are heading to Ukraine, the Air Force Times reports. The small team will be there to assess "mid- and long-term needs for defense reform," a Pentagon official tells Chuck Vinch. The White House has slowly been rolling out its assistance to Ukraine since early March, including a $1 billion aid package. Back then, interim Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk met with President Obama at the White House and appealed for military aid, including arms, ammunition, and intelligence support. Here's what the White House has pledged to provide to the Ukrainian military so far: •$23 million for defense security •$5 million in body armor •About 300,000 ready-to-eat meals •Night-vision goggles, medical supplies, helmets, sleeping mats, handheld radios, and water-purification units And for Ukraine's State Border Guard Service, which has had to contend with the looming threat of Russian troops to the east:
20-person shelters, sleeping bags, fuel filter adapters, barbed wire, patrol flashlights, perimeter alarm systems, fuel pumps, concertina wire, vehicle batteries, spare tires, binoculars, excavators, trucks, generators, food storage freezers, field stoves, and communications gear.
Ukraine will no doubt welcome the help. Its military, underfunded and plagued by shaky leadership, has struggled to push pro-Russian separatists groups out of the eastern part of the country. On Wednesday, Ukrainian forces abandoned a military outpost in the city of Luhansk after a 10-hour gunfight with separatists, who have taken over the region.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 16:08:29 GMT 10
Yep, more beans and rice for stores! How much is a Geiger counter anyway?...
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Jun 7, 2014 17:32:12 GMT 10
Yep, more beans and rice for stores! How much is a Geiger counter anyway?...
Not an every day request in Australia apparently.
Geigercounterstore.com - Geiger Counter
astore.amazon.com/geigercounterstore-20
Geiger Counter RADEX RD1503+ Geiger Counter (New 2013 Model / Replaces Old RD1503 Model) RADEX RD1212 Advanced Radiation Detector / Geiger Counter Trifield 100XE EMF Meter RADEX RD1503+ Geiger Counter (New 2013 Mode... $159.00 RADEX RD1212 Advanced Radiation Detector / ... $222.12 Trifield 100XE EMF Meter $115.00 Radiation Detector SOEKS 01M - Geiger Counter - (English Language) New GQ GMC-300 Nuclear Radiation Detector Data Recorder Beta Gamma Ray Detection Mazur Instruments PRM-8000 Handheld Geiger Counter and Nuclear Radiation Monitor, 0.001 to 200 mR/hr Range, +/-10 Percent Accuracy Radiation Detector SOEKS 01M - Geiger Count... $159.95 New GQ GMC-300 Nuclear Radiation Detector D... $155.95 Mazur Instruments PRM-8000 Handheld Geiger ... $470.00 RADEX RD1706 Professional Radiation Detector / Geiger Counter Radiation Alert MONITOR4 Analog-Based Ionizing Radiation Detector Mazur Instruments PRM-9000 Geiger Counter and Nuclear Radiation Contamination Detector and Monitor, 0.001 to 125 mR/hr Range, +/-10 Percent Accuracy RADEX RD1706 Professional Radiation Detecto... $307.60 Radiation Alert MONITOR4 Analog-Based Ioniz... $349.99 Mazur Instruments PRM-9000 Geiger Counter a... $595.00
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Post by graynomad on Jun 7, 2014 17:33:03 GMT 10
Dunno, but the good NV gear is well out of my reach unfortunately.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 10:41:04 GMT 10
Yep, more beans and rice for stores! How much is a Geiger counter anyway?...
Not an every day request in Australia apparently.
Geigercounterstore.com - Geiger Counter
astore.amazon.com/geigercounterstore-20
Geiger Counter RADEX RD1503+ Geiger Counter (New 2013 Model / Replaces Old RD1503 Model) RADEX RD1212 Advanced Radiation Detector / Geiger Counter Trifield 100XE EMF Meter RADEX RD1503+ Geiger Counter (New 2013 Mode... $159.00 RADEX RD1212 Advanced Radiation Detector / ... $222.12 Trifield 100XE EMF Meter $115.00 Radiation Detector SOEKS 01M - Geiger Counter - (English Language) New GQ GMC-300 Nuclear Radiation Detector Data Recorder Beta Gamma Ray Detection Mazur Instruments PRM-8000 Handheld Geiger Counter and Nuclear Radiation Monitor, 0.001 to 200 mR/hr Range, +/-10 Percent Accuracy Radiation Detector SOEKS 01M - Geiger Count... $159.95 New GQ GMC-300 Nuclear Radiation Detector D... $155.95 Mazur Instruments PRM-8000 Handheld Geiger ... $470.00 RADEX RD1706 Professional Radiation Detector / Geiger Counter Radiation Alert MONITOR4 Analog-Based Ionizing Radiation Detector Mazur Instruments PRM-9000 Geiger Counter and Nuclear Radiation Contamination Detector and Monitor, 0.001 to 125 mR/hr Range, +/-10 Percent Accuracy RADEX RD1706 Professional Radiation Detecto... $307.60 Radiation Alert MONITOR4 Analog-Based Ioniz... $349.99 Mazur Instruments PRM-9000 Geiger Counter a... $595.00
Thanks Sentinel, but that was a tongue in cheek question...LOL
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Jun 8, 2014 11:17:19 GMT 10
Not an every day request in Australia apparently.
Geigercounterstore.com - Geiger Counter
astore.amazon.com/geigercounterstore-20
Geiger Counter RADEX RD1503+ Geiger Counter (New 2013 Model / Replaces Old RD1503 Model) RADEX RD1212 Advanced Radiation Detector / Geiger Counter Trifield 100XE EMF Meter RADEX RD1503+ Geiger Counter (New 2013 Mode... $159.00 RADEX RD1212 Advanced Radiation Detector / ... $222.12 Trifield 100XE EMF Meter $115.00 Radiation Detector SOEKS 01M - Geiger Counter - (English Language) New GQ GMC-300 Nuclear Radiation Detector Data Recorder Beta Gamma Ray Detection Mazur Instruments PRM-8000 Handheld Geiger Counter and Nuclear Radiation Monitor, 0.001 to 200 mR/hr Range, +/-10 Percent Accuracy Radiation Detector SOEKS 01M - Geiger Count... $159.95 New GQ GMC-300 Nuclear Radiation Detector D... $155.95 Mazur Instruments PRM-8000 Handheld Geiger ... $470.00 RADEX RD1706 Professional Radiation Detector / Geiger Counter Radiation Alert MONITOR4 Analog-Based Ionizing Radiation Detector Mazur Instruments PRM-9000 Geiger Counter and Nuclear Radiation Contamination Detector and Monitor, 0.001 to 125 mR/hr Range, +/-10 Percent Accuracy RADEX RD1706 Professional Radiation Detecto... $307.60 Radiation Alert MONITOR4 Analog-Based Ioniz... $349.99 Mazur Instruments PRM-9000 Geiger Counter a... $595.00
Thanks Sentinel, but that was a tongue in cheek question...LOL Yeah - I thought it was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 12:02:51 GMT 10
LOL...
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Jun 10, 2014 10:47:43 GMT 10
(If I were a high ranking official in the GRU {the foreign military intelligence main directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation} , I would be taking this as an escalation in hostilities and be seeking Iran's newly developed anti-stealth radar system.) ....................................
US dispatches nuclear-capable bombers to Europe.
Mon Jun 9, 2014 4:20PM GMT
The US has dispatched two nuclear-capable stealth bombers to its European Command (USEUCOM) area of operations for purported training purposes.
On Sunday, two B-2 Spirit aircraft flew to the USEUCOM area of operations to train and integrate with US and allied military forces in the region in the course of a short-term deployment.
The B-2 Spirit is a multi-role stealth bomber which can deliver nuclear munitions and is capable of penetrating sophisticated defense systems and threatening heavily-defended targets.
"This deployment of strategic bombers provides an invaluable opportunity to strengthen and improve interoperability with our allies and partners," said Admiral Cecil Haney, the commander of US Strategic Command.
The USEUCOM is one of the nine Unified Combatant Commands of the US army, which covers an area of 54,000,000 square km and 51 countries, including Europe, Russia, Iceland, Greenland, and Israel.
"The training and integration of strategic forces demonstrates to our nation's leaders and our allies that we have the right mix of aircraft and expertise to respond to a variety of potential threats and situations,” Haney added.
According to a January report by the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS), the US is planning to spend over USD 1 trillion on its nuclear arsenal over the next 30 years.
The CNS report adds that after 2020, Washington plans to allocate as much as three percent of its annual military budget to its nuclear arsenal.
The funding is comparable to spending levels used for modernizing US nuclear arsenal under former president, Ronald Reagan, during the 1980s arms race with the former Soviet Union.
In December 2013, Congressional Budget Office predicted that the US would spend USD 355 billion over the next decade on its nuclear weapons complex.
The US has the largest stockpile of active nuclear warheads in the world and is the only country to have ever used nuclear weapons against another nation.
Based on recent numbers from Federation of Atomic Scientists (FAS), the US currently holds a stockpile of 4,650 nuclear warheads, 2,130 of which are operational. In addition, Washington has 2,700 retired nuclear warheads that are yet to be dismantled.
ASH/HMV/SS
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Jul 9, 2014 8:54:15 GMT 10
(well Gordon Duff is not being very politically correct, nor backwards in calling a spade a spade!)
ISIL backed by US, Israel, KSA.
Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:14AM GMT
By Gordon Duff
President Obama has announced that 300 American “advisors” would be deployed to Iraq to answer the threat posed by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) terrorist group, the American trained and supplied Al Qaeda/Takfiri militant group unleashed on the people of Syria some years ago.
Obama announced that the US would begin Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) activities in the Middle East in order to learn more about the threats the US trained ISIL forces pose.
Obama, however, may well have been unaware that every 60 minutes an American spy satellite passes over Syria and Iraq with high resolution optical and synthetic aperture radar capable of identifying a single individual.
He also seems unaware that the US maintains a massive signals intelligence base in Al Quds (Jerusalem) that monitors all traffic in the Middle East, a sea of not only antennas but a giant aerostat larger than a football field, thousands of feet in the air that sees and hears everything well into Iran and beyond.
There is much Obama doesn’t seem to know.
BACKGROUND While militants fight Iraqi forces over that nation’s largest oil refinery, a column of American armor heads toward Damascus, captured from the Iraqi military.
While the media tries to present this as the work of a backward “Al Qaeda” franchise operation, quite something else is afoot.
We haven’t seen a complex military operation of this scope since 9/11. The planning and logistics required are not just nearly inconceivable, they betray the full complicity of more than one operational command with access to satellite intelligence, shipping and rail capabilities and full air supremacy.
MEET THE PLAYERS For eight years, Dick Cheney and his Israeli/Saudi friends wielded the world’s largest military force, America’s two million men, $1.5 trillion dollar per year juggernaut.
Intelligence sources now tell us that this same trio, hiding behind the ISIL, is waging a corporate war across the Middle East, a surrogate war backed by corporate billions. Military and intelligence analysts conclude that ISIL operations continue to enjoy full intelligence and logistical support, port and rail facilities through Aqaba, Jordan, safe transit for militants through Israel. All other claimed sources of supply, particularly those through Turkey are a fabrication, deception and cover. Moving military hardware through Turkey, multiple layers of military and police oversight, harbors under full naval control, is an absolute impossibility. Nothing moves in Turkey without full complicity of both civil and military authority, something that, at this time, simply doesn’t exist.
All of this is meant to hide the complicity, not only of Saudi Arabia and Israel in support of Al Qaeda but that the entire “Arab winter” operation we are seeing, the unraveling of any movement remotely resembling “popular government,” is simply a rerun of the post 9/11 Bush/Blair “heist” sold to the public as the “war on terror.”
The US-built armor and transportation handed over to the ISIL in Mosul is far from the first help they have received “Made in USA.”
From Veterans Today correspondent, Jeffrey Silverman reporting from the Republic of Georgia:
“The supposedly captured US Humvees his troops have taken to Syria are purported to be the inanimate equivalents of the US hostages held for so long in Iran in the late seventies. However, the track record of al-Shishani himself, and the various players in the region, indicates that something else is going on.
The US-backed rebels are losing ground in Syria. ISIL, though presented as the enemy in northern Iraq, has been installed there to finish the job the original rebels have proved unable to.
The capture of the equipment is in fact a strategic handover. It serves two purposes: to equip the anti-Assad forces and to provide cover for equipment being brought out of Afghanistan and handed over to ISIL. It will be said, if anyone notices, that this equipment must have been stolen from northern Iraq, because we have seen this happen on TV, and CNN says so!”
PAVING THE WAY Unseen by constellations of surveillance satellites and dozens of American drones, the ISIL, the Chechen led “militant” army simply walked into and across Iraq. Though Israel, the US and Saudi Arabia monitor all communications in the region, though armies of “assets” line every road and infest every village, it was all unseen, unheard, and to anyone who understand military operations, unbelievable.
The operational scope seen in the current two front war waged by what we are told is a Takfiri-led movement steeped in religious and tribal extremism. Though this is true to an extent and certainly a factor in recruiting fighters, the “taskings” the ISIL has followed are global, clearly economically driven and tied to an agenda more closely aligned with Wall Street than their secret Saudi paymasters.
DISMEMBERED IRAQ With a majority Shiite population and a newly established tradition of voting along religious lines, the idea of a Sunni minority taking control of Iraq is a pipe dream.
This is what makes the current attacks something very different than they seem. With Kurdistan aligned, for the time at least, with Baghdad, the real target, Kirkuk and its vast oil fields, should well be outside the ability of the ISIL, no matter how much help they receive from disaffected Sunnis in Iraq, to move against.
Yet the Kirkuk fields and the end hub of the Kirkuk, Baku, Ceyhan Pipeline is the obvious target. As long as these assets along with the oil fields to the South, Basra, are producing, Iraq can and will weather this current storm, providing realistic political reforms are put on the table.
What is yet to be seen is how far those who seek to destroy Iraq are willing to go, what they have promised and to whom.
Iraq has known war, a decade of war with Iran and another against the United States. No nation in recent history has known comparable suffering, not even Vietnam. There will be no winners if Iraq comes apart.
GD/NN(presstv)
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sentinel
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Post by sentinel on Jul 18, 2014 6:37:45 GMT 10
Don't know who IS responsible ATM for this - but if you were looking for a trigger to escalate this to a full on situation - this is it IMO; ............................ Malaysian jet 'shot down' over Ukraine - Europe - Al Jazeera English www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/report-malaysian-jet-crashes-near-ukraine-2014717151147473508.htmlMalaysian jet 'shot down' over Ukraine Malaysian Airlines fight MH17 carrying 295 passenger crashes in Ukraine's east, amid reports alleging missile strike. Last updated: 17 Jul 2014 18:07 A Malaysian airliner was brought down over eastern Ukraine, killing all 295 people aboard and sharply raising the stakes in a conflict between Kiev and pro-Moscow rebels in which Russia and the West back opposing sides. Ukraine accused "terrorists" - fighters aiming to unite eastern Ukraine with Russia - of shooting down the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 with a heavy, Soviet-era SA-11 ground-to-air missile as it flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on Thursday. Leaders of the rebel Donetsk People's Republic denied any involvement, although around the same time their military commander said his forces had downed a much smaller Ukrainian transport plane. It would be their third such kill this week. Journalists saw burning and charred wreckage bearing the red and blue Malaysia insignia and dozens of bodies strewn in fields near the village of Hrabove, 40km from the Russian border near the rebel-held regional capital of Donetsk. Al Jazeera's Rory Challands, reporting from Moscow, said the plane fell in an area controlled by pro-Russian separatists. "The investigation would be very difficult given that it's controlled by the rebels," he said. "Ukrainian officials are saying that many children were dead. Some are saying that all died. Reuters is reporting that body parts were found at the scene. It seems that it was a very gruesome scene." Despite the shooting down of several Ukrainian military aircraft in the area in recent months, including two this week, and renewed accusations from Kiev that Russian forces were taking a direct part, international air lanes had remained open. Dutch news channel RTL said at least 76 Dutch citizens were aboard the aircraft. A Ukrainian official said there were 23 US citizens. France said at least four of its citizens were on board. Wreckage and bodies Malaysia Airlines said air traffic controllers lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 GMT as it flew over eastern Ukraine towards the Russian border, bound for Asia with 280 passengers and 15 crew aboard. Flight tracking data indicated it was at its cruising altitude of 33,000 feet when it disappeared. That would be beyond the range of smaller rockets used by the rebels to bring down helicopters and other low-flying Ukrainian military aircraft - but not of the SA-11 system which a Ukrainian official accused Russia of supplying to the rebels. "I was working in the field on my tractor when I heard the sound of a plane and then a bang," one local man at told Reuters news agency at Hrabove, known in Russian as Grabovo. "Then I saw the plane hit the ground and break in two. There was thick black smoke." An emergency worker said at least 100 bodies had been found so far and that debris was spread over 15 km. People were scouring the area for the black box flight recorders and separatists were later quoted as saying they had found one. "MH17 is not an incident or catastrophe, it is a terrorist attack," Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko tweeted. He has stepped up his military campaign against the rebels since a ceasefire late last month failed to produce any negotiations. Russia, which Western powers accuse of trying to destabilise Ukraine to maintain influence over its old Soviet empire, has accused Kiev's leaders of mounting a fascist coup. It says it is holding troops in readiness to protect Russian-speakers in the east - the same rationale it used for taking over Crimea. Ukrainian Interior Ministry official Anton Gerashchenko said on Facebook: "Just now, over Torez, terrorists using a Buk anti-aircraft system kindly given to them by Putin have shot down a civilian airliner flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur." The Buk is a 1970s vintage, truck-mounted, radar-guided missile system, codenamed SA-11 Gadfly by Cold War NATO adversaries. It fires a 5.7-metre, 55-kg missiles for up to 28km. Rebel accusation A rebel leader said Ukrainian forces shot the airliner down and that rebel forces did not have weaponry capable of hitting a plane flying 10km up. Ukrainian officials said their military was not involved in the incident. The military commander of the rebels, a Russian named Igor Strelkov, had written on his social media page at 1337 GMT, half an hour before the last reported contact with MH-17, that his forces had brought down an Antonov An-26, a turboprop transport plane of type used by Ukraine's forces, in the same area. There was no comment on that from the Ukrainian military. Several Ukrainian planes and helicopters have been shot down in four months of fighting in the area. Ukraine had said an An-26 was shot down on Monday and one of its Sukhoi Su-25 fighters was downed on Wednesday by an air-to-air missile - Kiev's strongest accusation yet of direct Russian involvement, since the rebels do not appear to have access to aircraft. Moscow has denied its forces are involved in any way. The loss of MH-17 is the second disaster for Malaysia Airlines this year, following the mysterious loss of flight MH-370. It disappeared in March with 239 passengers and crew on board on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. In 2001, Ukraine admitted its military was probably responsible for shooting down a Russian airliner that crashed into the Black Sea, killing all 78 people on board. A senior Ukrainian official said it had most likely been downed by an accidental hit from an S-200 rocket fired during exercises. Source: Al Jazeera and agencies
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