iceage
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Post by iceage on Apr 13, 2022 23:15:30 GMT 10
Hypothetically if you had say 500k where would you buy rural land or where would be a good area to start in your opinion on the eastern seaboard. Ive seen some land in QLD for instance around 100k to 200k around Tara, but that area looks pockmarked with CSG (coal seam gas), chinchilla as well.
Im thinking all up spend of 500k to get going in a self sufficient lot, home/cabin etc.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 14, 2022 4:56:45 GMT 10
Any location within a few hours from home, unless this is going to become your home, that has good water supply, is flood free, private and large enough to achieve your goals. Anything you leave unattended at Tara will be pilfered by the human vermin that infest that area.
Make a list of what features of a block are important to you and start scouring real estate sites on the internet. That's what I did with both my retreats.
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Post by Stealth on Apr 14, 2022 11:48:47 GMT 10
I know you're asking for locations but I reckon you're putting the cart before the horse a little. You need to know your build budget before you can stick a reasonable price on your block cost and that will change where you can look to buy.
I would recommend tallying your cost to build first. IMO going land first and then building cost after sets you up for more trouble down the track. The reason I say that is because it's no good buying a huge chunk of land if the only thing you can afford to build at the end is a shack with no insulation. If you want to be fully self-sufficient you'll need to factor all the things that will get you there. Full insulation. Double glazing. Solar rig and possibly wind rig depending on where you're looking. Hydro costs if you want to buy a block with a creek on it. Costs of building a root cellar if you plan to store a lot of supplies in a cool dark place. That'll mean paying someone to make sure it's sound and won't collapse on you. Building approvals. All that drama.
Then once you've got your worst case scenario costing to build with all the kit to keep you comfortable then you can start looking for properties with the amount you've got left over. If you could scrape in your perfect cabin/small house build with all the kit and caboodle for $250k (building is expensive AF atm) then you've got a budget for where you can afford to look. There's a vast difference in an extra $100k for land for sure and that'll determine whether you can afford to go further in-land and away from major towns etc. or not.
As for me, I wouldn't look on the eastern board unless I had a reason tying me there like family or work. The vast majority of high-value targets are on the eastern side and are more liable to be indiscriminately attacked than the western side where if you're not in Perth you might as well not exist. Pessimistic? Sure. But the point of buying a permanent bug in property for us is to have somewhere that we can just shut the gates and aim downrange if push comes to shove.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 14, 2022 13:28:59 GMT 10
You need arable land, that's not too cold in winter, so forget the highlands, Tara and Chinchilla are nice areas, but the CSG is an issue and will get more so in the future as the Middle east issues shut down production. Keep away from the coast, both because its too crowded, and also, in case of a tsunami and flooding, as evidenced in the North Coast floods recently. You need a water source, either tanks for rainwater, or dam. Rivers are OK, but be aware of flooding taking away your infrastructure. A small, say less than 300 people, town within bicycling distance, say 20 km, is also a good idea. Having a state forest, or at least, a buffer zone around you is also needed. Neighbors that think like you do are a must, access is a consideration, and a two edged sword. Poor access will deter unwelcome visitors, but will slow you down as well. A few rounds of lead downrange usually sorts out unwelcome visitors, and they will all die out within a month or two of the collapse anyway, because of starvation disease etc. Arable, reasonably flat land for crops is a must, and along with the aforementioned water source, is a major requirement. Resources, such as trees for building, firewood etc is also a must, but cleared land is also needed for gardening. The land needs to be fenced, or can be easily fenced without a major clearing exercise with a bulldozer. We spent nearly 5 years, every holidays looking for suitable land, and found it 900 km away from family over 20 years ago. The process will take time, so better start now. The Northern Rivers in NSW is a good area, not too cold in winter (occasional frost which is good to kill of pests), good rain, (except around the plain like Lismore !), and reasonably good services, hospitals. The land around us is also part farming land, so farm jobs are always available, as is on farm food. A good aspect for solar power is vital, as wind and micro hydro are obviously aspect dependent. Comments ??
I love it when a plan comes together !
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iceage
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Post by iceage on Apr 14, 2022 18:29:50 GMT 10
Lots to think about, thanks for the info.
Frosbite, thought Tara might not be a good idea and you confirmed it, just too many adverts for land there, looks like they cant get buyers in.
Stealth, i was thinking of just a small granny flat for 2 to get started, ive seen a few price ranges built for around 100k - 150k, would have to look into it more before land buy for sure, but even if dwelling blows out to 200k, that leaves 300k for land.
Cheers malewithatail, some very good info there, really appreciate it. I was thinking definitely need to be close to a small town of that size, even if it is an hour or two drive.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Apr 14, 2022 19:43:15 GMT 10
Quote: "Stealth, i was thinking of just a small granny flat for 2 to get started, ive seen a few price ranges built for around 100k - 150k" For $20k you can get a shed like this built on a concrete slab, then all you need to do is line it and divide into rooms yourself. This one is on my coastal acreage, I retained the roller door and placed all the power points midway up the walls so that it can become a workshop after the house is built. In the meantime it's a comfortable weekender:
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Post by Joey on Apr 14, 2022 20:48:43 GMT 10
The blocks around Tara are a lot of scrappy bushlands that would require decent amount of grunt to clean up to a livable standard
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iceage
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Post by iceage on Apr 14, 2022 21:54:52 GMT 10
Quote: "Stealth, i was thinking of just a small granny flat for 2 to get started, ive seen a few price ranges built for around 100k - 150k" For $20k you can get a shed like this built on a concrete slab, then all you need to do is line it and divide into rooms yourself. This one is on my coastal acreage, I retained the roller door and placed all the power points midway up the walls so that it can become a workshop after the house is built. In the meantime it's a comfortable weekender:
That would be preferable, i helped out with something similar many years ago outside of goulburn. Was just a big shed, probably 20 - 30 meters long by 9 meters wide, that we divided into rooms with timber wall framing, insulation and gyprock. It was garage shed though, had the big door opening at the front that would swing up into the shed. Worked though and is probably still there unless it was left to rot.
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bushdoc2
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Post by bushdoc2 on Apr 14, 2022 22:18:21 GMT 10
The blocks around Tara are a lot of scrappy bushlands that would require decent amount of grunt to clean up to a livable standard
"Tara and Chinchilla are nice areas" lmfao Blockies, not good neighbours in Tara.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Apr 14, 2022 22:23:04 GMT 10
Only place I have found good property prices is in Tas.
Interest rates are going up so property prices should soften.
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Post by Stealth on Apr 15, 2022 9:36:31 GMT 10
For $20k you can get a shed like this built on a concrete slab, then all you need to do is line it and divide into rooms yourself. This one is on my coastal acreage, I retained the roller door and placed all the power points midway up the walls so that it can become a workshop after the house is built. In the meantime it's a comfortable weekender: Hey which mob did you get that shed from Frost? Looks very suitable for the home office that we're planning to drop on a block when we finally get one. Looks like that might suit our needs.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 15, 2022 9:55:56 GMT 10
Too cold in Tas, same as the New England, too cold. Had a mate in Tara, he didnt like it at all and was planning to move but had a heart attack before he could. Lots of land for sale around there, why ? Not very good land either for self sufficiency, some areas are ok, but the environment smells due to the gas industry. Grafton area is nice, but Grafton itself is a bit of a hole. Passed through the towns of Drake and Bonalbo when on my way to Nimbin (to get some gear from Rainbow Power), and the land around the Clarence River was nice, but looked like it could flood.
You know you own an old tractor when......You install a handwashing sink in the garage.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 15, 2022 10:01:04 GMT 10
I think its almost too late to be buying land to bug out too, especially unimproved land. Maybe a commune might be a better idea, and I noticed several around Nimbin.
You know you own and old tractor when.......Your 3 year old asks "is it greasy" before touching anything in the garage.
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Post by milspec on Apr 15, 2022 10:55:45 GMT 10
For an off grid property consider something like a tractor and other machinery that will help you develop it, maintain it & run it. Not necessarily essential but man it's good to have the machinery to get some jobs done.
Also when you choose a degree of remoteness for lower cost and a greater spacing from your neighbours you end up with more travel to reach a bigger town which offers services or gear that you need. It's a worthwhile tradeoff IMHO but one that needs to be considered before hand.
You can find decent sized and suitably private properties an hour or so from towns which offer most everything needed.
I was definitely after 300acres+ with a mix of pasture and woodland, dams, bores and some existing large shed infrastructure. The one I found met those requirements had some basic accommodation and is an hour to a big town, 30 mins to a small town (fuel/IGA,rural store/hardware, butcher, medical, pub)
With the 55k or so of off grid solar we added this place would have just come in within your budget.
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iceage
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Post by iceage on Apr 15, 2022 21:32:34 GMT 10
I think its almost too late to be buying land to bug out too, especially unimproved land. Maybe a commune might be a better idea, and I noticed several around Nimbin. You know you own and old tractor when.......Your 3 year old asks "is it greasy" before touching anything in the garage. Im only looking for a small plot of self sufficient land for two and "some" extended family. I already live in a semi remote area, this is just a mind experiment at the moment as to whether i can put all the pieces together to have a remote retreat not a hippy commune.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Apr 16, 2022 8:18:55 GMT 10
Weve been talking with some friends around here, and have discussed a sort of alliance for wtshtf. We are planning to get together every month or so, and the next Sunday we are having a field day here to shoot our weapons, which range from cross bow, to 50 cal deer rifles. I do have a 50 meter range on farm, so its logical to do it here. Also, discussed was comms and explained how UHF cb works, ranges and the solar powered UHF repeater on the top of the mountain, its range and other topics. I also handed out some short wave radios with instructions as to how to use them. We will be having our monthly meetings at others farms, so will get a chance to help set up the radios. All in all, a very productive day.
You know you own an old tractor when......You dream of a tractor shed with more parking than your garage.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Apr 16, 2022 11:27:34 GMT 10
Hypothetically if you had say 500k where would you buy rural land or where would be a good area to start in your opinion on the eastern seaboard. Ive seen some land in QLD for instance around 100k to 200k around Tara, but that area looks pockmarked with CSG (coal seam gas), chinchilla as well.
Im thinking all up spend of 500k to get going in a self sufficient lot, home/cabin etc.
It all really comes down to what your long term goals are for the property and your family situation I could add as well ave you considered buying a block of land in a smaller rural town and building there then branching out and becoming part of the community ? I know one town that basically only those that want to be forgotten live there its a small town it has a school , police station a hospital and a few other random things like 2 shops a library a caravan park a pub and a roadhouse its the sort of place that everyone passes through going to some other place and its mostly just road trains and tourists. Its hot in summer and the heat never really goes away you cant even have a cold shower in summer and its very much one of those places that will see a gradual withdrawal of government services as things get tougher The flip side is though the land is cheap you can buy a 2000sqm block for $10000 and if you're lucky it will have a closed off mineshaft that is flooded so you get a free bore to pump water from for gardens and fruit trees If you're not afraid of working then there's no shortage of work and its every easy to bring home over $2K a week for most of the year getting a firearms licence is easy once you have had a drink with a couple of the local station owners as they always are happy to let people thin out the pests on their properties But its not for everyone and if you have children then you have to think about their future education because there is no high school however from my experience out there if the world collapsed tomorrow those that live out there now would very quickly adjust to the new world because they are pretty much living close to the it now this is a property for sale there now www.domain.com.au/49-51-mcarthur-street-croydon-qld-4871-2017542289
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Apr 16, 2022 15:16:30 GMT 10
Grumble, your last post makes an awful lot of sense as only today I drove through several very small towns within a hundred kilometres of our place and the potential to setup a very good lifestyle for future situations is there to be taken.
Many of the house blocks are larger than in the cities and the potential to become self sustainable is there for the asking.
No need for the ridiculous four wheel drives and other useless equipment that normally goes with them instead that money could be spent on becoming sustainable.
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Apr 16, 2022 20:19:33 GMT 10
About 2 years ago I undertook a search for abandoned mining towns. Was planning a trip to go and view some of them, to find a location to bug out to. Google abandoned towns, mines, occasionally they come up for sale. All one needs is a large truck, a number of UTE with trailers etc.. to move your household and all your preps to set up camp there when things fall apart/TEOTWAWKI/WORL/SHTF........
This thread has got me thinking, perhaps time to review my previous notes and go on a road tour now that I have a company vehicle.
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peter1942
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Post by peter1942 on Apr 17, 2022 9:30:27 GMT 10
I have made comments before on this web site in relation to the unnecessary topics that are put up when what really concerns me and hopefully a lot of other readers is water, food and shelter.
We are lucky as we have a few hectares in a fairly secluded position but if we never had this we would certainly look at setting up in a small rural town.
No one can survive without having others around them who can supply skills or equipment that they do not have and becoming part of a group or groups and becoming part of a team is what will help us through times of need. I would like to see more seed saving groups as seeds are going to be a very important commodity if the system fails. How many readers to this site have a seed bank set up with several years supply of vegetable seeds? I have our seed bank in an unused upright freezer which to me an ideal use for it.
I grow most of our fruit which we use for making all of our jams and preserves, I grow a very good percentage of our vegetables. I cannot grow a number of the food items we eat such as grains due to to climate, lack of additional labour, lack of water in some years and a host of other reasons and that is when we rely on others who are commercial growers who supply the markets or shops we rely on to help us be well nourished.
Reading may of the posts on this site makes me wonder if many of the contributors have even the most basic skills required that would be needed if a situation were to arise whereby the total system that they rely on for their being were to fail. Our nearest town has about four thousand residents and it is rare to see a vegetable garden or fruit tree in the greater percentage of their yards and yet many of them are complaining about the cost of living. As aged pensioners we eat and live well because we have the skills and the ability to still put those skills to good use. It is my belief that if a true SHTF situation were to arise many, many people would not survive due to a total lack of unpreparedness.
Living in a country town, not too far from the services one requires such as medical and schooling and supplies such as fuel and groceries makes sense and there is also the water and power on hand to be used while one sets up solar power and water heating and water catchment areas and storage if needed and more importantly their gardens to supply their food.
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